Garrison Joe

I would suppose Eddie Rebel should know a lot more about the match and schedule and round count than the rest of us. Maybe get ahold of him again? ::) You could always take enough ammo to shoot 15 stages with round counts of 30 handgun, 10 rifle and 6 shotgun. Then you would at least be able to shoot the main match...... ;D But looking at the app form, its a 10 stage match and some side matches (those not specified). I'd probably do a load out of: main match 250 handgun 100 rifle 60 shotgun side matches 100 handgun 50 rifle 25 shotgun That would get you by, most likely. The app does say: For additional information contact: Ed Clark, “Eddie Rebel”, Match and Range Director, (304) 397-6188, e-mail: ecclark@suddenlink.net Roger Weir, “Captain Hook”, Territorial Governor, (304) 429-2199

Real Winchester or IAC? I've had a sticky flag on a new IAC a few years back, and was about to try flag replacement, but was told I'd have to rivet the new flag with a new rivet and it was "tricky" to do. So, I worked a little lube between flag and carrier, and every time I clean it, it gets a very thin smear of Mobil 1 synthetic grease and a smidge of Rem Oil spray. Has loosened up and run fine ever since. Good luck, GJ

Bart - The way I've seen it handled, if you pick up the rifle at the wrong time and fire it once and leave it closed on the fired round while you set it down, you would not have needed "TO's permission to decock" - you would just have fired the long gun on your own. Decocking in my definition book (Common Sense Handbook, because Decocking is not defined in the WB Shooters Handbook) would be trying to lower the hammer while preventing the gun from firing, by restraining the hammer fall with your thumb. You would probably NOT be given permission to decock a loaded rifle by any TO worth his salt, as that will leave action closed and hammer down on a live round, which is safe neither for movement nor restaging. However, firing the rifle is ALLOWED any time after the beep on the firing line, it is just a Procedural penalty if done at the wrong time. You never have to ask the TO permission to FIRE the rifle. Well, unless the command to Cease Fire has been issued. A COURTESY statement out loud to the TO about "Firing rifle out of sequence" might be worthwhile, so you minimize the misunderstanding and keep the TO and spotters aware that you will be taking advantage of the "free reload" later when you get to the time to shoot rifle. This kind of mistake happens really rarely in most matches. Usually a TO will be yelling his head off "PISTOL, PISTOL, PISTOL" to get you to not rack the lever on the rifle that is in your hands. And if you do, a good TO will usually say something like "DUMP THE ROUND SAFELY DOWNRANGE" because that is the net-low-time-option at that point. You really are exploring an area where the rules are not a well-worn-path with lots of "case law" to go back to. Oh, also, you have until the time that the first round of the next gun-type is fired to correct most problems with the previous gun used. Folks have fairly often run to a new shooting position, then realized the TO is yelling "one more round" and turned around to go back and fire the last round, both to avoid having a round-not-fired (scored as a miss) and to avoid leaving a round on the carrier of the restaged rifle (a Minor Safety penalty, for 10 seconds). Good luck, GJ PS - Decocking with TO permission - is usually only ever needed or given on the cowboy side of the game, for a cocked revolver after all rounds have been fired from it. You can't put that revolver back in holster cocked. You can't lay it down cocked. Either you ask to decock the revolver, or you dry fire it so fast the TO never gets a chance to say "don't decock without asking," or you declare a malfunction because you can't get the hammer to fall. Trying to prevent decocking is essentially an unnecessary rule chasing an unnecessary action. Decocking is never really needed in Wild Bunch, because our handgun (the 1911) can be unloaded and left open and empty (slide locked back) pretty easily. GJ

1. Wow, you sure make it hard to answer this question by being so vague. The rule you seem to be asking about, I think, is: OK, so now we have to guess what you have a question about, because I can think of several situations that the rule applies to. Shooting a gun out of the gun order specified on the stage instructions - Yep, that earns you a single P. Say you run to a spot where you shoot rifle and 1911 from, 1911 was supposed to be shot last. But you yank it on the run and rack the slide as you skid to a stop, and start banging away. You earn the P when the first shot is fired from the 1911 before you engaged the targets with all the rifle rounds you should have used. Next situation might be that the second position is only a rifle-shooting position, with the 1911 intended to be shot from another position even farther away. Again you skid to a stop in the middle of the stage and yank the 1911, only to find that you can't really shoot at anything now that you have a cocked 1911 in your hands, because you can't see or get a safe angle on the pistol targets. You remember that you can drop mag and rack slide and lock slide back, then put the 1911 down on a prop open and empty and locked back, then shoot your rifle and pick up 1911 again and move to the third position. No penalty would be invoked. Now, change the stage so the pistol to be shot at middle position and rifle at last position. You run to middle position and by mistake pick up and rack the rifle to put a live round in chamber. Then you remember that you can't shoot rifle from here, because none of the rifle targets are visible yet. Whatcha gonna do with the rifle while you shoot that 1911? If you open the lever, you toss a live round and you still don't have a safe gun to allow to leave your hands. So, you could lever out the other nine rounds. Ugh - but no penalty if you have 10 reloads on your person. Or instead of levering any round out, fire that first rifle round safely into the berm. The rule we are talking about defines that firing of the gun out of sequence and from wrong position to only cost you a P. With the action closed and hammer down on a fired round, the rifle is safe to be set on a prop or table, then you can shoot your pistol rounds, then you can pick the rifle back up and take rifle to the last position, and even put a reload round in it to make up for the one you fired in the dirt. Bottom line, you only get the P for firing the rifle out of order and you are clean on the rifle targets because you got a "free reload". 2. Lots of us WB shooters have a sg and rifle ammo slide right where you describe. Bob Mernickle makes a nice slide that snaps over your gun belt buckle, and puts 4 SG and 6 rifle loops in that area between magazine slides (on left) and holster (on right) (for RH shooters). Good luck, GJ

+1 for Boggus's action. Stop the shooter if no rounds have gone down range and restart them after the gun is made ready for a good start. Yell STOP, until the shooter stops. If needed, put a hand on shoulder or arm. But, if the TO can't get that to happen, then let's see what we can do. It's not a tactical reload to shove a mag into the 1911 at that point, as no round was in chamber. But is it PERMITTED to load ON THE FIRING LINE with slide down if there is a mag catch failure (or even operator error) that causes a magazine to drop, leaving the slide down on an empty chamber, BEFORE the shooter has fired rounds? The main rule section for loading the 1911 says: Ok, several conditions cited there, so let's examine step by step here. 1. All reloads shall be from slide lock. Was this a reload? Yep, it was not the magazine that the shooter loaded at the loading table. I'd call it a reloaded magazine. Was it from slide lock? No. 2. Exception to the first step THE ONLY EXCEPTION to the slide-lock rule is if after firing all the rounds in the magazine the slide lock fails and the shooter needs to reload without moving, one may do so without locking the slide back before inserting the new magazine. Was this something that happened because the slide lock failed AFTER firing all rounds from magazine? Unfortunately, no, this was a possible failure of mag catch, not slide lock. And shooter did not fire any rounds from the ejected/dropped magazine. Seems the exception does not apply. While I believe the situation would be extremely similar to when the exception would be allowed, the rule seems so insistent that it had to be after firing the rounds in the old magazine, that it seems to me we cannot apply the exception. 3. So, based on failing 1 and 2, I'd have to call it a MSV for reloading with slide not locked back. Yes it's harsh in this instance. To avoid it, shooter should have locked the slide back. If you think it's too harsh in this instance, the rules probably ought to be adjusted to allow it. Good luck, GJ

Aguila or B&P short shells fix that.

The discussions you found were almost certainly about non-sanctioned Wild Bunch matches. For those local matches that follow rules sets devised by other than the SASS Wild Bunch rules committee, you go by those local rules, whicih you usually can get by contacting that particular match director. For state and higher Wild Bunch matches sanctioned by SASS headquarters, you follow the published rules in the Shooter's Handbook, unless that particular sanctioned match has been allowed to run under a variation to a published rule that is to be followed at that match. Such variations to standard rules should certainly be discussed at the safety meeting before the match. Like at EOT, a solid bullet fired over the back berm is a Match DQ.

Wild Bunch rifle requirements, page 9 of WB Shooter's Handbook :) Do you really know just how different those two rifles are? Or is it you can't read? Or is this just stirring the pot? Sorry, but your question seems to be just an old and weary argument dressed up in a pinafore to make it seem attractive. OK, let's for a second assume this is an honest question. Yes, you have read the rules correctly. The Henry Big Boy is not allowed for sanctioned Wild Bunch matches. Why? Because the gun is not a close enough replica of a lever gun made in the allowed time period. (It also does not run very smoothly or fast, has no speed parts available, it a pain to load, and it's just ugly. And the company producing it decided they could take on the name of a very historic company from back in the 1860s, probably to add some cachet or weight to their product line.)

Here's a few places that do rifle bullet casting: http://www.montanabulletworks.com/7mm_Rifle.html http://www.gardnerscache.com/7mm_145_lfp_sil_g_c.html They have date windows on which you can order - next one is Saturday Aug 29th! http://www.moyerscastbullets.com/rifle.html I haven't any experience with any of these folks' bullets, so you are on your own. For BAM shooting, you may want a fairly hard bullet, so you can get to about 1600-1800 FPS. Look for either 16 Brinell hardness, or "quench hardened" lead alloy or linotype alloy for starters. Most of the time, a gas checked bullet will be what you want, as well, for better accuracy. And heavier bullets with a spire tip often feed through military bolt guns better than flat nosed slugs. Good luck, GJ

About 19-20 grains of Accurate 5744 or 20-21 grains Alliant Reloder 7 would probably be nice for about a 145 or 160 grain cast slug in 7x57, if you can find those powders. 2400 was at one time used a lot, but has become less recommended through the years, and is pretty fast burning for 7mm. And 4227 is another great choice. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a good friend to BAM rifle shooters! These loads come right outta there. If shooting jacketed slugs, lots of data around for that.... see tons of online data at http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ Good luck, GJ

Those attitudes might just discourage half the potential ladies who have interest in BAM events from even trying. Better think again, before you cry about how few folks want to shoot BAM matches. Let's make the rules be what we need to attract the shooters we want to attract. If we start putting our egos in front of our rules, we end up like a lot of other non-inclusive gun sports, catering to only a handful of big old guys. Looking down the road to a bigger, happier WB turnout, GJ

If you pards are going for that level of zero external mods, be aware of some obvious unintended consequences. By deciding that a replacement butt pad added to a shortened stock would be illegal on BAM rifles, you prevent small stature shooters (like buckaroos, juniors, some women, some men even) from shooting the BAM rifle comfortably. How would someone who needs a 11.5 inch LOP on their long guns ever be able to shoot BAM well? Especially if the match is not a benchrest match, but a real "stand up and shoot" or "shoot from military positions" match? I'm not aware of any bolt action that would meet BAM requirements originally built with a short LOP. (Most were sized so a 5'6" feller could handle the gun well). I too understand the desire not to allow our competitors to creep the rules (I think we even discussed that a few replies ago in this very thread), but I also understand why on the Cowboy side, shortening a stock to fit the shooter or adding a recoil pad is exempted from the "no external mods" rule. Good luck, GJ

I'd say 1 is fine and 2 is not, but then, I get told by lots of folks I don't know the rules. ;D

Straight lead alloy slugs are hard to keep from leading barrels above about 1400 FPS, even if you use the best possible lubes. And barrel condition contributes a lot. Have you thought about maybe a 1:30 tin-to-lead slug for those dash calibers? That would be what factories "back in the day" were using. How's your bullet weight consistency? Less than about 0.5 grains light to heavy, as cast? Lots of weight variation usually indicates voids in the base area from poor casting techniques....I'm sure you know that, but voids are another common cause of inaccuracy at longer ranges. And the tin in the alloy helps with complete bullet fillout, too. Good luck, GJ

Garand: For the Swede - many a cast bullet shooter has come to believe their accuracy sweet spot is 1500-1600 FPS. No faster! And that military barrel usually has a VERY long throat. And the fast twist needs a heavy for caliber bullet. So, I have worked up some loads that seem good to at least 200 yards (3" groups). They use the Lyman 266673 bullet (150 grains nominal) cast with 16 Brinell hardness lead (air cooled) and gas checked. Sized 0.001 over bore diameter (in my case 0.268). Lubed with Carnuba Red lube from White Label Lube. http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/ Over 2400 or 5744 or Reloader 7. In increasing order of accuracy for me. I tried 4198 but found accuracy fell off from Rx7. Keep on working, either your alloy is a little soft (bullet deforms the long nose during firing) or you are pushing it too slow to stabilize or too fast to hold a good group. Find a chrono to shoot your loads over, with 6.5x55 it's really critical to hit a good muzzle velocity for your gun. Good luck, GJ

You will be real lucky if the Ruger replacement front sight stays on. Per reported experience from several pards here, and in other 1911 forums, they seem to have gotten a big batch of sights that were made from bad steel - perhaps sintered?. Big, tall, heavy front sights just put too much stress on that sight Ruger is still using. Recommend you have a tool steel front sight dovetailed and pinned into the slide when the factory repair fails. Good luck, GJ

If you really do, then nothing is simpler than: ANYTHING more complicated is just .... more complicated. Good luck, GJ

They will work fine. They are harder than needed, though, and I find that hard a slug with our moderate loads will give you a fair amount of leading right in the throat area, even with a very good bullet lube. In fact, Brinnel 12 hardness is harder than is needed for the pressures we shoot at. About 9 BNH is sufficiently hard, and reduced leading to nothing in my 1911. They will NOT be damaging the steel targets. No need to worry about that. Good luck, GJ

Maybe it's just your lighter pouch. ;D Same as BD - I'd not call it as illegal if you are not using it as one of your mag pouches. Some folks on the Cowboy side have bullet loops on their holsters. They are (usually) empty. It's a no call everywhere I've ever been - no one even mentions it.

Almost certainly that was caused by a squib that, as you surmised, stuck the bullet most of the way into the barrel. Mag primers or a slug that is groove diameter or slightly under sized makes this more likely. 1911 barrels are pretty thin out by the muzzle. Overpressure (excessive loads) in 1911's more often splits open the chamber (have seen a couple of shooters do that, too). But a stuck slug - bulges or splits the barrel closer to where the squibbed slug stuck. Stopping a shooter who has just encountered a squib in the 1911 is VITALLY important to prevent gun damage. I believe more TO's need to be thinking "call the squib if there is one" right before they touch the timer button. The infrequent squibs (seems I save my year's allotment so they appear at EOT) that I get, I call on myself, rather than the TO yelling it out. Good luck, GJ

Now, the closest example of what we have done so far in WB is with the Win Model 12. Winchester also made, on I suppose the exact same equipment, the Model 25, a solid-frame light weight cheaper variation of the Model 12. Our rules allow only the Model 12. Several folks have asked over the years, can I run a Model 25? The answer has always been NO. Several folks have pointed out that some guns were made to the Model 25 specs but were stamped Model 12. Those have been allowed in, as no one really wanted to have to get out the collector's books and serial numbers lists (if they even exist) and noodle out whether it is really a 25 or a 12. Just go by model stamped on the gun, and make life simple and easy both for Match Directors and shooters trying to decide in a gun shop whether a gun is legal for WB or not. I think we have exactly the same problem here with the Yugo model numbers. Except the rules for BAM rifles did not list acceptable models numbers, just the phrase (approximately) "built and could have been issued up to the end of WW II." The easy way - knowing that the Yugo Mausers were model numbered for the year of design, and anything designed before 1946 is good for BAMM. The hard way - trying to cipher out various variations and loopholes and waving of arms about the gun being built on the same production line, except something like 20 years later (after the end of WW II in the case of the Model 48). Priceless - having clear rules that all of us are willing to follow, no exceptions, no wiggle room. And, if a club wants to allow some newer model at local matches, they are sure free to do so - just let the shooter know it won't fly at a major match. You do realize most Mod 48 Yugos have bent bolt handles and the Mod 24 and 24/47s have straight handles? The biggest, but not the only, improvement in those later model guns?

Degeneration to a personal level argument? Nope, not going there.

Believe some serious thinking is needed here. Either rules mean what they say, or you can have a bunch of hidden decisions behind them with loopholes. I think it's time WB rules really mean what they say. Then, if they say the wrong things, correct the rules. Please don't clog up the rules with unwritten exceptions, that require folks to have intimate knowledge of now- defunct factories in a communist country, and how they either reworked or built new rifles almost 70 years ago. Keep it straight forward, and let the rules mean what they say. I'd rather not have WB handbook a clutter like Cowboy rules have become. Good luck, GJ

Ummmm. Heartburn time. page 17, WB Shooter's Handbook The Model 48 Yugo was never issued to military forces of any country through the end of WW II. Are you claiming the Yugo 48 qualifies because it is a "faithful reproduction" of the Model 24? It sure is not marked as such. And, comparing my 48 with a 24/47, there are lots of little things, and some big things, different between them. I don't follow your line of reasoning. Good luck, GJ

WBT - Thanks, I never look at Cabela's web site, so I might have to peek at it. Normally way over my price-value range, and no local store to go pick it up at. GJ PS: Oh, I see they have bulk PPU 6.5x55 brass in stock, too. Less than $60 a hundred. That might just be worth paying shipping for. I normally buy more than just 20 at a time.... OH, they've got bulk Nosler brass too in stock now. Now we're talking. Thanks, GJ