Texas Bart

I've been using this one for 6 years and have happy with it.

Possible reason: 45 Colt can't be loaded from the top in my '73 due to COL. One of these days I'll get around to trying with 45 Schofield and/or C45S

Dirty Southpaw, As a newbie (still consider myself one) I had mag questions also. You might want to check out the "1911 Magazine Rule Question" thread in the Wild Bunch Rules Forum. I got some good advice there from several folks. Texas Bart

Boggus Deal, Congratulations on the win!!! Feel free to come back to Gator Gulch this year. When I loose to Champions I feel much better. Texas Bart

+1 on buy both, especially if new to reloading. There is a lot more reloading information in most manuals than load data.

Y'all using the same lube? If he's using pre-lubed bullets lube may be to hard. Like Bogus said, size. Bullets to small will definitely lead.

Showed these mags around the Oakwood match on Monday and everyone there says legal also. That makes it unanimous so my concern level has moved to 0.00. Thanks to All

I firmly believe they are but I have been wrong a few times in the past 70 years. My kimber seems to like them so hope you are right.

Will see you there Saturday morning.

Boggus Deal, Thank you sir for the offer. I will be at the LA match on Friday the 30th for early registration and will look for you there. After removing the base pads I had no doubt they were legal until I read the Match Directors Handbook referring to the "flush fit" and began to have doubts. To answer your question, no, when looking at the mags from the bottom they do not look the same. I've attached a link to the Kimber web site showing the mags (mine are 8 round) and base. The retainer referred to (but not shown) is approximately 0.027" thick and fits inside the mag with a protrusion that fits into the center hole in the magazine base plate. The bottom of mag itself has lips on each side that fit into the cut outs you can see in the second link below. When assembled the mag spring forces the retainer protrusion into the magazine base and the fit is tight enough that the retainer is captured in the mag. To disassemble, pushing the protrusion in through the center hole of the base against the mag spring pressure allows the base plate to slide out to the front. Then the retainer will come out and the mag can be completely disassembled and cleaned. Couldn't find a bottom view on the Kimber site and hope all this makes sense. http://store.kimberamerica.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?limit=all&q=KimPro+tac-mag http://store.kimberamerica.com/magazine-base-plate-retainer Don't know ahead of time who else will be there but I will be shooting at Oakwood Monday the 12th and will show these mags around and see if anyone is familiar with them, or with the mag check procedure used at matches.

I've got a couple of questions, this time concerning mags. Page 6 of the Wild Bunch Action Shooting handbook, 5th bullet states "Magazines must be standard length and cannot hold more than eight rounds. No extended base pads on magazines. This means NO base pads of any kind. Empty magazines must weigh no more than three ounces." All my mags weigh less than 2.5 ounces, so that part is OK. I currently have 7 mags, 1 marked Shooting Star, 2 Kimber and 4 KemPro Tac-Mags. The 4 KimPro's have removable base pads, which I have removed. With the base pads removed they appear to be the same as the original Kimber mags, except for the fact that the metal base of the mag can be removed. Is this acceptable? My second question comes from reading the Pistol Magazines section of the Match Directors Handbook on Page 7, third bullet, which states "Magazine must fit flush with bottom of frame when inserted." If that is taken literally, none of my magazines are acceptable. With my Kimber disassembled all mags go in beyond flush but when assembled the mag spring against the slide lock or bottom of slide pushes the magazine out to the point that it protrudes beyond the bottom of the frame from 0.020" to 0.050", depending on brand of mag. Has anyone had this checked at a match and if so, what is the procedure for checking "flush with bottom of the frame"? Pushing the mag in against the spring pressure brings the mag in past flush with the frame. Going to shoot the LA state match the end of this month and don't want a Match DQ, even if for Scoring Purposes Only.

I think I've got it now. If not, someone will explain it to me when they give me the P and refer to this section as the reason. Hopefully not in the near future. Thanks for the help, Bart

Thanks Garrison Joe, Sorry for being so vague but I think you pretty well nailed it with your post. It did generate one more question, inserted below. OK, so now we have to guess what you have a question about, because I can think of several situations that the rule applies to. Shooting a gun out of the gun order specified on the stage instructions - Yep, that earns you a single P. Say you run to a spot where you shoot rifle and 1911 from, 1911 was supposed to be shot last. But you yank it on the run and rack the slide as you skid to a stop, and start banging away. You earn the P when the first shot is fired from the 1911 before you engaged the targets with all the rifle rounds you should have used. Next situation might be that the second position is only a rifle-shooting position, with the 1911 intended to be shot from another position even farther away. Again you skid to a stop in the middle of the stage and yank the 1911, only to find that you can't really shoot at anything now that you have a cocked 1911 in your hands, because you can't see or get a safe angle on the pistol targets. You remember that you can drop mag and rack slide and lock slide back, then put the 1911 down on a prop open and empty and locked back, then shoot your rifle and pick up 1911 again and move to the third position. No penalty would be invoked. Now, change the stage so the pistol to be shot at middle position and rifle at last position. You run to middle position and by mistake pick up and rack the rifle to put a live round in chamber. Then you remember that you can't shoot rifle from here, because none of the rifle targets are visible yet. Whatcha gonna do with the rifle while you shoot that 1911? If you open the lever, you toss a live round and you still don't have a safe gun to allow to leave your hands. So, you could lever out the other nine rounds. Ugh - but no penalty if you have 10 reloads on your person. Or instead of levering any round out, fire that first rifle round safely into the berm. Understand that firing that round gets you the P, but better than jacking out all live rounds and having to reload. New question is generated by the first #2 on the page referring to de-cocking, a strict no no. Second sentence states "NO gun may be de-cocked on the firing line except by pointing it down range and pulling the trigger while under the direct supervision of the Timer Operator." Since you shooting the stage with the TO at hand, is the sentence "This requires a positive indication/acknowledgement from the TO to the shooter" satisfied, or do you still have to tell the TO what you are doing? The rule we are talking about defines that firing of the gun out of sequence and from wrong position to only cost you a P. With the action closed and hammer down on a fired round, the rifle is safe to be set on a prop or table, then you can shoot your pistol rounds, then you can pick the rifle back up and take rifle to the last position, and even put a reload round in it to make up for the one you fired in the dirt. Bottom line, you only get the P for firing the rifle out of order and you are clean on the rifle targets because you got a "free reload". 2. Lots of us WB shooters have a sg and rifle ammo slide right where you describe. Bob Mernickle makes a nice slide that snaps over your gun belt buckle, and puts 4 SG and 6 rifle loops in that area between magazine slides (on left) and holster (on right) (for RH shooters). Good luck, GJ Thanks for the response and sorry for the additional question. Bart

Thanks Bogus Deal,

1) Maybe I haven't shot enough matches (4) to run across the situation so would like an example of where a certain rule would apply. On page 24 of the shooting handbook, item #2 (actually second #2), I'm having a hard time visualizing the situation where this might apply. Could someone give me an example that would help clarify? 2) On page 14 of the Shooting Handbook I see that ammo slides are legal but nothing on location. Can a combination slide for SG and Rifle ammo be on the gunbelt in front between the magazine pouches and the handgun? #2 is probably a dumb questions but don't want to buy something I can't use. Seems to me that the rules don't say no, so it's permitted.