Garrison Joe

First - there is NO guarantee that any one .452 diameter bullet will work well in both your 1911 and your rifle. NO guarantee. NONE. But, good news abounds - it's cheaper to buy different bullets than it is to modify guns to shoot a particular bullet real well. 8) ;D Second - if you want simple, put the 1911 away. It's not tough, but it's not simple. It's very fun, but it's not simple like a SAA revolver is simple. Here's Alliant's published max load for that bullet weight: 45 Auto 200 gr Lead bullet 1.19 OAL Red Dot 4.5grains 831 FPS That is the velocity (or very slightly slower) you want for Wild Bunch, as it translates to 166 Power Factor. Your cartridge OAL will depend upon what feeds and chambers well in your 1911. Be aware, there may be problems with the front driving band and first section of the rounded nose jamming tight into the rifling, as the 45 auto barrel is cut with NO throat at all before the rifling starts. You don't EVER want that jamming into the rifling to occur. A tight slug raises pressure, and a tight slug can be pulled out of the case when you clear the pistol with a live round in the chamber! And a slug touching the rifling lands is just a smidgen away from not chambering all the way, leading to a round that will not fire, and has to be ejected, and probably made up at some time. Seat your first loads at an OverAll Length (OAL) to put the mouth of the case right where the front driving band starts to turn into the round nose. Ignore any crimp groove that may be on the slug, crimp into the top edge of the driving band. Taper crimp, which is what a good 45 auto crimp die produces, so that the mouth is taken down from the slight expander belling down to about 0.471" (no tighter than 0.470") diameter right at the mouth. Load only five or ten, then go shoot. If the bullet won't chamber the last 1/16", but will seat with a firm slap on the rear of the slide, seat slightly deeper. If bullet sticks with the nose on the feed ramp, you may need to shape and polish the ramp (a job better left to gunsmith until you gain experience with it). If bullet jams with a 3-point jam, you may have a poor quality magazine. Colt, Tripp or McCormick mags remove the doubt about that. If you still have a problem feeding, and the bullet's flat point is very broad, you probably have a feed-ramp/barrel throating problem. Starting 10% under Alliant's max load, you might start at 4.1 grains of RD. Work your way up. You WILL need to shoot your load over a chronograph, as velocity/power factor is watched closely at major Wild Bunch matches. And each 1911 shoots the same load to different velocities. When you get a good PF, good extraction, good feeding, good accuracy, and a good feeling - stop, you are probably done! Good luck, GJ

Yep, those are great. Wilson quit making those for several years. Looks like they got the feedback that a bumperless, economy-but-well-built mag is needed for lots of reasons. When I wear out my twenty or so Tripps, I (or more likely one of my grandsons) might have to look at those. ;D

Well, that's not too descriptive. Suppose you meant "choke". But, a feed ramp failure is often a magazine problem. Put a good mag in it and try again. Tripp, McCormick, Colt are some of the best. Wilson would be if they'd make a no-base-bumper model again. Feed ramps do work better nicely smoothed and polished and aligned so the barrel lip does not stick out over the top of the ramp.... Sounds like your pard's gun needs a light action job, not necessarily a different slug. Tell him he really ought to WANT his 1911 to feed most ammo, because that is TRUE. If the slug you are using has a wide meplat (the flat tip at the front), 1911's hate trying to shove that up a feed ramp, even if it is well tuned. A truncated cone design feeds much better. Or a conventional round nose (which can be considered to be a "very small meplat"). Good luck, GJ

What you added to your initial post is EXACTLY what my earlier reply addresses. The front band (called the driving band) of the slug is jamming into the rifling, which on a 1911 starts within 0.050" of the end of the chamber. His barrel may have even "taller" lands than normal, or less of a throat where the chamber tapers into the rifled barrel. Symptom - rounds often fail to chamber that last 1/16", leaving slide JUST out of battery, and slide has to be whacked with helle of the weak hand to get it to close. Solution - seat your existing SWC slugs slightly deeper for your pard! The very top edge of the driving band needs to be exactly at the mouth of the taper crimped loaded round. Seated slightly longer, and the driving band jams into rifling. Seated slightly shorter, and the mouth's taper crimp wraps over the band and does not bite slightly into the driving band as the crimp is applied. Using a RNFP design won't help his problem, not near as much as using a truncated cone design does, because the cone has a sharper angle and keeps the lead of the slug just above the driving band off of the rifling much better than the RNFP or RN. Good luck, GJ

Never seen such a critter (LRNFPSWC). Closest I've seen is the Accurate 45-200B. Which isn't a real RN and it's not truly a SWC. But it is a FN. Kind of a mixed-breed, in my opinion. I like a 200 grain Truncated Cone (flat nose) for both rifle and pistol. Simplifies supply. Shoots perfectly. In case you want to know, I cast the Accurate 45-200E design for myself. Any degree of semi-wadcutter shape gives you a shoulder that lever guns usually hate. Otherwise, I'd probably still be shooting H&G 68 semiwadcutters. I've shot some round nose flat point 200 grainers in the 1911. It's susceptible to failing-to-chamber completely with a tight throat like 1911 barrels have (bullet seating position has to be just right). The TC design gives more flexibility on seating position, because the nose tapers away from the rifling more quickly than a RNFP does. Lots of folks have their barrel throats opened up to correct the chambering of a RN or RNFP slug. I just use the right bullet. ;D Some folks like a 230 grain slug. I've noticed most of them shoot two handed. I don't, and a 200 grain slug works better for recoil recovery FOR ME. Good luck, GJ

Sure sounds like a too-light firing pin strike is occurring on the '73 that has been rechambered to .45 auto. Small primer might have a more rigid anvil than a large primer design does, due to "bigger span" of the LP anvil's arch? It's not the outside dimensions of the .45 auto case that varies between the NT (non-toxic) SP case and the original design of the LP case. If you taper crimp both the SP cases and the LP cases the same way, then it's not likely that the gunsmith cut the .45 chamber too long (bad headspace, thus letting the round slide forward on firing pin impact). The only thing different is going to be the primer and the pocket. SP primers MAY be a little more sensitive to a FP strike than LP primers. I've not seen anyone run that test yet. Would be interesting to see, when using exactly the same brand of primers, whether SPs are easier to light off as the main spring tension is backed off. There's a tremendous number of cowboy type shooters who over the years have claimed that a particular gun after it was tuned up for lighter spring weights, would no longer run anything but Federal primers. This sounds a lot like the same story, just in a different suit. I'd bet the lack of reliability of firing can be resolved by tuning hammer fall to be a little heavier, as has been the case in hundreds of cowboy guns I've heard about and a few I've even tinkered with. Good luck, GJ

+1 for AW. I still don't believe their existence is justified. Even if we have data saying small primers in these new cases work OK, we don't have data saying this is a good idea for the redesign of ammo that has been standard for about 105 years now. Most deviations from standards in the firearms industry usually end up hurting someone. That is one reason SAAMI was set up in 1927. But at least I've not blown up a Dillon press more than once with large primers being seated into small primer pockets, as one of our pards has reportedly done. Mine just slams to a halt. So far. Good luck, GJ

High primers can fire on slide going home. A dirty disconnector can certainly be a culprit for a 1911 going full auto. A drop of oil goes down on the disconnector tip each time I clean a 1911. Light trigger spring pressure or a negative sear angle or a too-short sear to hammer engagement can all lead to a gun going full auto too. It takes a real trigger wizard to get a reliable and safe 2.5 # pull on a 1911. 3 # - not that hard to do right. Good luck, GJ

I've had to tweak the cutoff outwards just slightly to make up for wear. The tip should hang out in the way of the second shell getting onto the carrier ("cutting it off") after the first is already shoved out there. Good luck, GJ

You read the rules right. A sight on a Traditional 1911 has to be black blue or stainless. No other colors. I've never seen a "pinned" front sight on a 1911. I think you mean the standard factory sight attachment of staking the lower tenon of the front sight blade into a slot cut all the way through the slide. If you replace a staked front sight, PLEASE go to a dovetail mounting system, or sooner or later you will buck any staked replacement target sight off the slide. To get to the best sights that are allowed on a 1911 for Wild Bunch Traditional, you should have a tall, high visibility black sight front and rear. Stainless front sight would probably not show any different shooting into low-angle early morning sunlight. It sure wouldn't in an early morning EOT match facing due east! If you don't have a tall rear sight, the 10-8 NM or the Harrison Retro rear sight blades are legal. Here's what the Harrison is: https://shop.harrisoncustom.com/hd-003-retro-rear-sight And the 10-8 sight is very similar. Then a tall front sight, preferably dovetailed into the slide, to match the height. If you need one sourced, try Les Baer's front sight: https://www.lesbaer.com/1911parts.html I've got vision problems at times and can't see some sights well. But I shoot Traditional and use the 10-8 NM rear and a tall black front sight dovetailed into slide, as I described, and it's the best you can do with a Traditional gun, IMHO. If you need easier sights, you have to go to a Modern category where any color (except a fiber sight) is allowed on sights. THERE you could have a brass front sight. Colt as far as I know does not label any of their pistols as "Mil-Spec". That name is Springfield's. Good luck, GJ

WL - Glad some of our advice was working for you. If you are getting ANY roll of the mouth from a taper crimp die on .45 auto, the crimp die is set too low or it's mis-manufactured! Take your calipers and measure RIGHT at the mouth. If you crimp tighter than about 0.470" you are putting too much crimp on with the taper crimp die. You still want at least half the thickness of the brass at the mouth showing (look down from the nose of loaded cartridge - should see most of the thickness of the brass in the mouth looking back at you). If you are burying the mouth into the lead, or rolling it over the ogive of the slug, that's too much crimp. The taper crimp should only be setting the inside third of the wall thickness at the mouth into the lead, so you still have a good ledge of brass outside the slug to headspace against the end of the chamber! A Lee factory crimp die can work for you, but if it seems to be "correcting" the shape of the crimp compared to what the taper crimp die was putting on, you probably had the taper crimp die adjusted too low.

Wild Bunch is a game of reliability. There's more movin' parts and good scores are HIGHLY dependent upon your 1911 and ammo running flawlessly, and your mag changes being smooth and speedy. Same with shotgun, too. So, load like your life depends on the quality of the ammo. No ugly ammo - no untested loads. Practice as much as you can between now and WR. Figure out what you are going to do on every type of gun and ammo failure. Practice clearing jams and recovering from mag drops or kicked out live rounds at inopportune times. Then shoot fast, don't miss and have confidence in each stage plan before you walk to the line. Good luck, GJ

Yep, a Lewis Lead Remover is a very handy lead eraser, too! We all put different amounts of care into making our ammo. We all should realize that some "just load" and some "want it perfect". In the end, what really matters is: "Each to his own way of having fun!" Good luck, GJ

Glenn?

On .45 Auto rounds, here's two very important lengths/dimensions to check. The top of the driving band on the slug has to be RIGHT at the case mouth. Because the .45 auto chamber has NO throat, the bullet nose, forward of the case mouth, is shoved right into the rifling! There is usually just about 0.050" taper at the start of barrel lands, but don't count on the amount of taper being the same on every gun! So, find the top edge of the driving band (the full-diameter band closest to the nose). On most round nose (cast) bullets, the driving band is slightly larger diameter (0.003" or maybe more) than the largest diameter of the round nose. If you have a bullet design where the nose blends smoothly into the driving band, well, you have to be real careful to find where you can just start to measure the nose tapering down to a smaller diameter, and seat just behind that point. (Mark that taper start point with a sharpie on your seater "setup" slug.) I use a truncated cone flat nose slug design. On that, it is very clear where the transition is between driving band and the conical nose. Seat so the case mouth comes just to that junction. And some folks use a semiwadcutter (target) bullet design for the 1911. That's fine - seat so the driving band is right at the case mouth, too. The main concept - don't have any length of the front driving band (which should be slug diameter of 0.451 to 0.452") showing in front of the case mouth. At this point, load several rounds and test them all in a tightly-cut chamber gauge. All should chamber. That does not mean you are done yet, though. Second critical length - an unfired round has to be short enough that you can rack the slide back and the loaded round pops out easily. Too long a length on your loaded cartridges, and you will regret the first time you have a bobble of some sort that requires you to reload with a full magazine and only fire one or two rounds. If you can't pass the second length test when you are properly passing the first length test, choose another bullet (one with a shorter nose - round nose flat point (RNFP) designs are ideal for being as short as possible)! And, finally, some guns feed a particular design of bullet only if the OAL is right for that bullet and that feed ramp geometry and magazine lip design and barrel throating work! So, third test is to rigorously test your loads that they feed well every time! That may mean running practice sessions with 250 rounds, tested over at least a couple sessions! If you can't pass the third test with the load length that worked for test 1 and 2, choose another bullet or get some work done on the gun! Because there are tons of designs for cast bullets even for the 1911 pistol, any loading book can only suggest the OAL that is right for the load. As BD and JFN have stressed, the final answer comes from what your gun(s) need. This is not like loading jacketed slug rounds where the bullet is within a few micro inches of the design specification every time and for every box you pick up off the shelf, over 20 years of production. Good luck, GJ

How would one say, "Beware the Ides of March" in Spanish? Tenga cuidado con los idus de marzo ? Sounds like March Los Pistoleros will have to have a Black Jack and Lt Patton stage .... Like, standing at the bar, General Pershing (the TO) yells at Lt Patton (the shooter) - "Georgie, put that 1911 away before you shoot someone in the foot!" Shooter starts stage when the buzzer follows. ;)

All the top WB shooters I know religiously gauge every 1911 round they take to a match. It's well worth it, as the 45 Auto has tolerances that make it anything but straightforward to load 100% reliable lead bullet ammo. The tight chamber, the really tight and short throat, and the need for semi-auto operation at 100% reliability all conspire to trip up even well experienced 1911 jacketed ammo shooters. Get an ammo gauge! Dillon makes a great one, tightly toleranced and accurate. If it goes in that, it slips right through my 1911s.

I assume you are referring to this product, the Wilson "1911 Checkered Front Strap" - a 0.006" thin steel overlay. http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/frame-hardware/front-straps/1911-auto-checkered-front-strap-prod16409.aspx Checkered front grip strap overlay seems to be allowed for Modern guns, as long as it is not "part of the grips". Why is this my conclusion? For traditional pistols, the rule says: When checkering, matting, or stippling is mentioned, it means actually cutting a pattern in the frame or slide. But in the Modern pistol requirements, it is softened to read: Checkered front strap and trigger guard allowed. This means any type of checkering, stippling, and/or serrations are legal. As for the Group Gripper, I sure would not consider it a recoil reduction device. Rules allow, for Modern (or Traditional): Internal accurizing and action tuning is allowed. But I'd weigh any reduced reliability that the Gripper might introduce against the rewards that Wild Bunch has for high reliability of pistol operations, and fairly generous target size, and might well decide WB is a speed game rather than an accuracy game. In fact, I'd go so far as to venture the statement: "If you are missing targets with your 1911 in Wild Bunch matches, it's your own darn fault, not that of the gun." And probably due to improper time, trigger and sight control. Good luck, GJ

Well, there's at least one rub about trying to find data on-line anymore from Alliant, the manufacturer of Red Dot. If you go to their current published data, all you find is the MAX load and velocity for the bullet weight and powder type. They stopped publishing a range of loads that work well several years ago! Made their data much less useful for light loading! http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=230&shellid=35&bulletid=63 BUT, if you go to the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, for a 230 grain RN slug and Red Dot, you get what Lyman considers to be the full useful range of loads from minimum to maximum, from whence you can then get a good estimate of the load to make any particular Power Factor you want. But, anybody shooting a WB match at the state or higher level had better run their loads over a chrono before going to the match, to ensure you "make" power factor! Remember what happens when some powders get cold, too!

Well, most of the commercial loading manuals are assembled by technicians and ballisticians with years of experience, and "insider" information about the makeup of the powders and other components. I sure trust them more than I do Joe Reloader's pet load on a free web site. But, I also know what makes sense and what pressure signs look like. I put ALL that data together as best I can and have never blown up a gun. So for a beginning reloader (perhaps just beginning on this one particular chambering, in fact) I still recommend a study of the commercial loading manuals before starting to assemble rounds. And, when talking cast bullet loads, the only manual with a good number of those is the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. So, if you don't mind, I'll just keep recommending pards at least look Lyman over before they start. ;D 8)

I never trust loading data for semi-auto pistols to come out at the velocity that the manual shows, either. I always chronograph. But, the loading manuals sure get you to a good safe starting point, and the chrono will take you the rest of the way! GJ

Minimum weight bullets for Wild Bunch is 180 grain, by rule. Kinda hard to make power factor with them, however. Practical limits for 1911 bullets are from 200 to 230 grains, and usually either a round nose, RNFP, or truncated cone nose. Semi-wadcutters will work but not many folks use them because extra attention must be paid to throating and polishing. With what you have on hand, use the 200 grain RN or RNFP. Either will be fine. That will need a little more powder than the 230 grain loads you have received so far. Lyman suggests about 4.6 to 4.7 grains Red Dot to make 800 FPS (PF 160).

Well, what bullet weight are you going to shoot in .45 Auto? You gotta give us that if you want safe loading data. If you follow many of the other shooters, a 230 grain bullet at 160 Power Factor (PF) should be your aim. That would be 695 Feet Per Second (FPS). Red Dot at about 3.7 - Whoa, more like about 4.3 grains - according to Lyman - would get you close to that. Any good reloading manual should show that load and it's velocity. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A RELOADING MANUAL yet, get one!! I'd recommend the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for a great resource for loading for Wild Bunch and Cowboy, too.

ER - Glad to. Team Shotgun support will be on my to-do list.

ER - I'd be glad to help you (or Goatneck) again with a side match, as long as I can get free to shoot some as well. Last year the timing was easy to do that. This year might need some "time slots" if a big turnout occurs. Oh, max range we should expect on the Long Range 1911? Thanks for running these! GJ