Garrison Joe

At the very least - Slide welded up to allow use of a mil-spec fixed rear sight in a dovetail. No wrap-around front strap covering rubber stocks (but the standard wooden grips available on one GC model would be fine) Trigger replaced with a "non-target" trigger (no holes drilled in it, at least) And the "National Match barrel & bushing" would be fine as is. A bull barrel - look at a Midway or Brownell's catalog - you will find out how big a diameter a bull barrel has. It does not fit in a standard barrel bushing! And, check the 40 ounce weight limit with an empty magazine in it for Traditional category, too! Although that weight limit is more easily achieved now (with recent rule changes), it has in the past snagged some folks who thought they had a gun that was good to go in Traditional, until weigh-in at a big match sank them! I think you can see why BD recommended just not getting a Gold Cup if you want to shoot Traditional category, but getting a more stripped down gun. A Colt Series 70 or Series 80 Government model, or a Springfield Mil-Spec, or Armscorp produced government spec models (made for several distributors) would be what you would more commonly see in Traditional category. By the way, Wild Bunch shooting is NOT a high-precision game. It's more a reliability game. Having a gun that shoots 2" 50-yard groups, for example, is not necessary. Having one that goes thousands of rounds of perfect cycling and high reliability, now that is priceless! There is a fair amount of difference between shooting Modern and Traditional. As much as there is between two handed Cowboy and Duelist styles in cowboy matches. It's probably wise to try a borrowed Traditional gun to see if you like shooting single-handed. It's not for everybody, and may not be your cup of tea if you have shot a lot of modern slide gun action matches..... Good luck, GJ

Sorry, but I believe you are the one who is interpreting the rules to be exclusive instead of meaning what they say, IMHO. The word ONLY appears nowhere in that section. You have added it when you wrote about the rule. Please stick to the rules. The factory-machined low rib is not a modification. It was manufactured that way. The rib was not attached. The rules prohibit an "attached external" rib. Really pretty clear. Good luck, GJ

IMHO, it is likely the Llama's slide rib will be ok,as the Gold Cup is cited in the rules as an example of a rib manufactured into the top of the slide, rather than attached later as a target sight device. The rule literally is: That Llama rib was machined in when slide was made. Not attached. But, some Spanish made copies do not have a grip safety. A functional grip safety not being present would certainly be a "killer" for complying with WB rules, either category. Shooting the gun in Modern category opens the rules requirements up considerably. Make sure he reads over all the rules in the WB shooter's handbook.

No experience with 2 grooves, but Cast Boolit site has lots of comments about them. Sometimes a little harder to find a cast boolit that shoots well, but not impossible, according to them. They are reported to like a long and fat nose design. If you want to find 50 different opinions about this in one CB thread, check this one: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-191007.html

Although the main web site for the club has changed to: http://www.shootingsteel.com/ You will at least for now find their large archive of cast boolit resources at the old location: http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm I sure hope they continue to keep that set of articles available, but I would guess there has been a change of command at the club, and you know how that can go. Especially valuable are the articles by Glen Fryxell! Such as: From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners This is a PDF that, if printed as a cast boolit shooter's handbook, would cost probably $30 bucks and be priceless at that price point! And Chapter 7 is worth it's weight in gold because it dissects the common symptoms and causes AND SOLUTIONS of various types of leading in barrels. After carefully reading Chapter 7, your shooting buddy will be able to both DESCRIBE the leading he is getting (much better than "the gun gums up") and FIX his leading problems! Good luck, GJ

Size,size, size. Bullet MUST seal the barrel well or there will be leading with cast bullets. Do a GOOD job of slugging the barrel. If necessary, Cerrosafe cast the rear end of barrel. Make the bullet one thousandth over that diameter, and lube with a good lube. I like White Label BAC or for something not sticky, White Label Carnuba Red. TOO HARD an alloy - I now shoot 8 Brinell hardness (for the last 2 years) - and get very little leading. That is about 1.5% antimony, 0.5% tin. Just about range scrap from ranges where it is primarily pistol lead. I used to shoot harder .45 slugs, and got leading in the first half inch - at the throat. That was with 12 to 14 Brinell hardness. I have also been coming to the conclusion that crimping should not be very tight. If the mouth of a loaded round is at 0.471", on a typical .452 bullet, that is tight enough. Taper crimp, of course. I read a set of guidelines for where the leading occurs and why. Something like this: in front of chamber, nowhere else - bullet too hard or undersized (gas cutting past base) all along the barrel - bullet too soft or lube not working well only out toward muzzle - lube running out Even with pistol ammo, there should be a little lube left on the muzzle (a lube star). If it's dry and dusty out there, lube grooves may not be holding enough, or lube is not working well. Sub 1000FPS pistol ammo should not be all that hard to make run without leading problems. And the chamber pressure of .45 auto ammo (about 18K psi) does not demand more than about 10 Brinell MAX hardness. Shooting "hardball" alloy, at 16 BNH, for what we do in WB? I've found it a waste of hard lead. Good luck,GJ

Yep, those numbers are consistent with my testing and use. I almost always find 0.1 or 0.2 extra grains of CD is needed to maintain exactly the same velocity as Clays in pistol cartridges. You will also find that CD is not cold sensitive like Clays has been. Haven't had a chance to test any Canadian Clays yet - all I have is Australian-produced Clays. Good luck, GJ

There are strict rules about only loading 5 in a magazine, however. All the side matches involving the 1911 I have shot have held to the 5 round max load out. Why tempt fate at a state level match and risk not getting to hold one again? Good luck, GJ

How much you want to spend? And do you want a US arm, or settle for foreign, like Mausers? And do you want it to be easy to load cast bullets for, or stick only with FMJ (and perhaps not be able ot shoot some smaller matches). In a US arm, price ranges for good guns that will shoot well and have a Muzzle Wear of 3 or less (in other words, still several thousand rounds of barrel life left): * Springfield 1903 - will have open rear sights, and don't buy in the range of serial numbers where there is brittle receiver possibilities -- about $800 - $1000 * Springfield 1903A3 - will have rear peep sight (and no brittle receivers) -- about $700 - $900 * Model 1917 (Enfield design) with dog-leg bolt handle - $600 - $800 Of course, you could shoot a 30-40 Krag, but they are getting awfully hard to find, so prices are going up British SMLE rifles, of the, what 4 or five major variations? Still pretty easy to find .303 British ammo. Usually pretty accurate. Guns so good, that the British government bought/borrowed tons of M1917 and M1903 rifles from us during WW II! In a Mauser, most of the German guns have disappeared off the market, with just a few being sold off due to estate sales and folks thinning a collection. Yugo 24/47 Mausers in mid-length-receiver 8MM Mauser are still being sold - $300-$500 should get a nice one with matching numbers. Will not be a fancy gun, but it will be serviceable and pretty accurate. Easy as 30-06 to load cast bullets in. Open rear sight. Swedish M96 Mausers - a big lot of them came on the market in the last year. They are chambered in 6.5x55 MM cartridge, which is cantankerous to load cast bullets for (but I do, with pretty good results), but they shoot jacketed very easily. $400-$600 should get a nice one with matching serial numbers. Ammo was pretty sparse, but with this big batch, several European companies and even some US are making ammo again for them. Open rear sight. Argentine, Chilean, Peruvian, Brazilian Mausers - the nice ones have been collector bait for the last 5 years, so they are getting thin and pricey and often cruddy barrels. South Americans seem not to have paid much attention about cleaning after firing corrosive primer ammo in the 20s and 30s. Maybe $800- $1000 for a nice one (usually 7 MM, but Argentines are 7.65 MM) , which I find to be too much to spend for that. Open rear sight, and sometimes crude at that. Now, if your eyes are old and you can't use an open sight precisely, you probably ought to stick with an 03A3. If you love tinkering with fine Swedish machinery, the Swede M96 is very cool (and long, unless you get a carbine). If you want to be "REAL" Mexican Punitive Expeditionary Force, well, nothing but a Springfield 1903 (or a Krag) will do. It just all depends. Good luck, GJ Oh, another Euro rifle to consider, since a bunch of them are being sold off, too. The Swiss K31. It's in an obscure cartridge, 7.5 Swiss. Ammo hard to find, so you will HAVE to reload. Straight pull bolt, makes it fast to shoot. Can be pretty accurate. French MAS guns from WW II are around, too. Most were unfired and only dropped once. ;D ;) And then lastly, the Russian Mosin/Nagants. Really drying up fast with the import restrictions on Putin's boys. Surplus ammo going going, gone soon too (that's quoting Wideners there). For as crude a build as was done, they shoot awfully well.

As a review, last year had three 16" (if I remember them right) round targets, one at 100, 125 and 150 yards. FMJ was allowed. I gotta hunch this year will be about the same, but confirming it would be real nice. :D

I cast my own bullets, so I can pick from several 200 grain designs. (I never put a "head" into a cartridge case in my life.... :o) But I'll bet Badman has a 200 gr RNFP at least. Makes a great load with both 45 auto and 45 Colt. Good luck, GJ PS - I checked for you. Yep, BB has the 200 RNFP either cast lubed or poly coated That design usually has a crimp groove, but that does not mean you have to use it. I find if I seat a 200 grain RNFP in 45 auto just about so the mouth reaches the beginning curve of the ogive nose, and then taper crimp, I get a great feeding round. PPS - looked in several gun reference books. The term "HEAD" is often defined as the solid end of a cartridge case which contains the primer. The HEADSTAMP is the cartridge designation and sometimes manufacturer and sometimes mfg year information stamped into the head of a cartridge case. The slangy attempt to use head to refer to a bullet in a cartridge case is just really wrong because it is already taken for a different meaning. Just MHO. This is ammunition loading, folks, not assembling Mr. Potato Head. ;D

I know of no one running 185 grain slugs in WB for .45 Auto. The gun is just not all that easily tuned to do a 185 at 900 FPS (to get you 166 PF). Muzzle flip is almost all in how you control the gun, given the same power factor. A faster slug does clear the barrel faster, though. So based on that and lots of experience shooting a 200 grain bullet from 1911, that's what I shoot in WB. Clays and Clay Dot are very close to giving same velocity and pressure. I like about 4.2 Clay Dot to give a 170 PF in my gun, but not as much as I like WST. Trail Boss - don't like paying extra for all that air to bulk it up. Besides, very hard to find right now. Good luck, GJ

I find it produces more enjoyable results to run the gun that I run best. And you probably do the same.

Glad all you pards glommed onto the M12....leaves more 97's for me. Although I've tried a couple of M12s, I find them too hard to run really fast. Leave me to my China doll 97s! At least I know how to fix everything on them! But, actually, in 6 years, only a startup glitch on one and the others have been perfect. Shorten the mag spring and away you go.

Better recovery time from each shot. Sure, it would be in the milliseconds per shot. But it especially helps keep tungsten insert recoil guides and other race gun features out. If there is not SOMEWHERE on the frame or slide where you could not shave off .4 ounce of weight, I would be REALLY surprised. Like in the mainspring housing. Or even a groove down the middle of the light rail. Good luck, GJ Well, no, we would hope you would call yourself out for .4 ounce. It's a different game here!

Well, P, you know where the rules are that govern this. You can read them yourself in the WB Shooters Handbook, or right here, too. Page 5 and 6. MODERN CATEGORY MODIFICATIONS Pistol finishes vary widely. Bluing, plating, polishing, painting, etc. are all legal. • Barrel length must be five inches. No barrel porting or compensators or other recoil reducing devices allowed. No recoil reducing devices are allowed. This means no Springcoil, STI, Fire Dragon, Hartts, tungsten, or similar recoil reducing guide rods, full length dust covers, extra weights, and the like. Dust cover light rails are legal. • Unloaded pistol weight may not exceed 42 ounces with an empty magazine inserted. • Barrel with standard barrel bushing. No Bull barrels allowed. • Magazine wells may be beveled, but may not be oversized, extended or flared. • Adjustable or non-adjustable rear sights and blade type front sights are allowed. • Sights may not be optical or fiber optic. Laser sights are not allowed. Sights may be painted or have colored dots or inserts. • Stainless steel pistols are permitted. • No target style grips or thumb rests allowed. Wrap around grips that cover a portion of the front strap are illegal. • Front and rear slide checkering or serrations allowed. • No external "rib" allowed on top of slide. This means no external rib such as a BoMar may be attached to the top of the slide by screws, welding, or any other means. The top of the slide may be flattened, serrated, and/or matted to reduce glare. Original Colt Gold Cup ribs are legal. • Extended beavertail grip safeties allowed. • Magazines must be standard length and cannot hold more than eight rounds. No extended base pads on magazines. This means NO base pads of any kind. Empty magazines must weigh no more than three ounces. • Magazine release may be extended but not oversized. • Thumb safeties may be extended and be ambidextrous. • Slide release may be extended. • Full-length recoil spring guide rod allowed. • Lowered and flared ejection port allowed. • Match trigger allowed. • Lanyard loop is optional. • Lightweight competition hammer allowed. • Checkered front strap and trigger guard allowed. This means any type of checkering, stippling, and/or serrations are legal. • Finger grooves on the front strap are illegal •Flat or arched mainspring housing allowed. Mainspring housing may be serrated or checkered. • Internal accurizing and action tuning is allowed. • Thumb and grip safeties must function correctly. As for a light rail and paint job, those are legal in Modern. You will want to check that you can make the upper weight limit! I highlighted in bold a couple of things to watch for. As I've not had one of the Marine Corp versions in hand.

So, CALL them. Just because a pard puts down an email address does not mean he reads it regularly. When you are getting ready for a big match as a match director, email reading may not be your top priority. Not every baby boomer lives and dies by email, let alone social media - strange as that may seem to younger pards.

I would suppose Eddie Rebel should know a lot more about the match and schedule and round count than the rest of us. Maybe get ahold of him again? ::) You could always take enough ammo to shoot 15 stages with round counts of 30 handgun, 10 rifle and 6 shotgun. Then you would at least be able to shoot the main match...... ;D But looking at the app form, its a 10 stage match and some side matches (those not specified). I'd probably do a load out of: main match 250 handgun 100 rifle 60 shotgun side matches 100 handgun 50 rifle 25 shotgun That would get you by, most likely. The app does say: For additional information contact: Ed Clark, “Eddie Rebel”, Match and Range Director, (304) 397-6188, e-mail: ecclark@suddenlink.net Roger Weir, “Captain Hook”, Territorial Governor, (304) 429-2199

Real Winchester or IAC? I've had a sticky flag on a new IAC a few years back, and was about to try flag replacement, but was told I'd have to rivet the new flag with a new rivet and it was "tricky" to do. So, I worked a little lube between flag and carrier, and every time I clean it, it gets a very thin smear of Mobil 1 synthetic grease and a smidge of Rem Oil spray. Has loosened up and run fine ever since. Good luck, GJ

Bart - The way I've seen it handled, if you pick up the rifle at the wrong time and fire it once and leave it closed on the fired round while you set it down, you would not have needed "TO's permission to decock" - you would just have fired the long gun on your own. Decocking in my definition book (Common Sense Handbook, because Decocking is not defined in the WB Shooters Handbook) would be trying to lower the hammer while preventing the gun from firing, by restraining the hammer fall with your thumb. You would probably NOT be given permission to decock a loaded rifle by any TO worth his salt, as that will leave action closed and hammer down on a live round, which is safe neither for movement nor restaging. However, firing the rifle is ALLOWED any time after the beep on the firing line, it is just a Procedural penalty if done at the wrong time. You never have to ask the TO permission to FIRE the rifle. Well, unless the command to Cease Fire has been issued. A COURTESY statement out loud to the TO about "Firing rifle out of sequence" might be worthwhile, so you minimize the misunderstanding and keep the TO and spotters aware that you will be taking advantage of the "free reload" later when you get to the time to shoot rifle. This kind of mistake happens really rarely in most matches. Usually a TO will be yelling his head off "PISTOL, PISTOL, PISTOL" to get you to not rack the lever on the rifle that is in your hands. And if you do, a good TO will usually say something like "DUMP THE ROUND SAFELY DOWNRANGE" because that is the net-low-time-option at that point. You really are exploring an area where the rules are not a well-worn-path with lots of "case law" to go back to. Oh, also, you have until the time that the first round of the next gun-type is fired to correct most problems with the previous gun used. Folks have fairly often run to a new shooting position, then realized the TO is yelling "one more round" and turned around to go back and fire the last round, both to avoid having a round-not-fired (scored as a miss) and to avoid leaving a round on the carrier of the restaged rifle (a Minor Safety penalty, for 10 seconds). Good luck, GJ PS - Decocking with TO permission - is usually only ever needed or given on the cowboy side of the game, for a cocked revolver after all rounds have been fired from it. You can't put that revolver back in holster cocked. You can't lay it down cocked. Either you ask to decock the revolver, or you dry fire it so fast the TO never gets a chance to say "don't decock without asking," or you declare a malfunction because you can't get the hammer to fall. Trying to prevent decocking is essentially an unnecessary rule chasing an unnecessary action. Decocking is never really needed in Wild Bunch, because our handgun (the 1911) can be unloaded and left open and empty (slide locked back) pretty easily. GJ

1. Wow, you sure make it hard to answer this question by being so vague. The rule you seem to be asking about, I think, is: OK, so now we have to guess what you have a question about, because I can think of several situations that the rule applies to. Shooting a gun out of the gun order specified on the stage instructions - Yep, that earns you a single P. Say you run to a spot where you shoot rifle and 1911 from, 1911 was supposed to be shot last. But you yank it on the run and rack the slide as you skid to a stop, and start banging away. You earn the P when the first shot is fired from the 1911 before you engaged the targets with all the rifle rounds you should have used. Next situation might be that the second position is only a rifle-shooting position, with the 1911 intended to be shot from another position even farther away. Again you skid to a stop in the middle of the stage and yank the 1911, only to find that you can't really shoot at anything now that you have a cocked 1911 in your hands, because you can't see or get a safe angle on the pistol targets. You remember that you can drop mag and rack slide and lock slide back, then put the 1911 down on a prop open and empty and locked back, then shoot your rifle and pick up 1911 again and move to the third position. No penalty would be invoked. Now, change the stage so the pistol to be shot at middle position and rifle at last position. You run to middle position and by mistake pick up and rack the rifle to put a live round in chamber. Then you remember that you can't shoot rifle from here, because none of the rifle targets are visible yet. Whatcha gonna do with the rifle while you shoot that 1911? If you open the lever, you toss a live round and you still don't have a safe gun to allow to leave your hands. So, you could lever out the other nine rounds. Ugh - but no penalty if you have 10 reloads on your person. Or instead of levering any round out, fire that first rifle round safely into the berm. The rule we are talking about defines that firing of the gun out of sequence and from wrong position to only cost you a P. With the action closed and hammer down on a fired round, the rifle is safe to be set on a prop or table, then you can shoot your pistol rounds, then you can pick the rifle back up and take rifle to the last position, and even put a reload round in it to make up for the one you fired in the dirt. Bottom line, you only get the P for firing the rifle out of order and you are clean on the rifle targets because you got a "free reload". 2. Lots of us WB shooters have a sg and rifle ammo slide right where you describe. Bob Mernickle makes a nice slide that snaps over your gun belt buckle, and puts 4 SG and 6 rifle loops in that area between magazine slides (on left) and holster (on right) (for RH shooters). Good luck, GJ

+1 for Boggus's action. Stop the shooter if no rounds have gone down range and restart them after the gun is made ready for a good start. Yell STOP, until the shooter stops. If needed, put a hand on shoulder or arm. But, if the TO can't get that to happen, then let's see what we can do. It's not a tactical reload to shove a mag into the 1911 at that point, as no round was in chamber. But is it PERMITTED to load ON THE FIRING LINE with slide down if there is a mag catch failure (or even operator error) that causes a magazine to drop, leaving the slide down on an empty chamber, BEFORE the shooter has fired rounds? The main rule section for loading the 1911 says: Ok, several conditions cited there, so let's examine step by step here. 1. All reloads shall be from slide lock. Was this a reload? Yep, it was not the magazine that the shooter loaded at the loading table. I'd call it a reloaded magazine. Was it from slide lock? No. 2. Exception to the first step THE ONLY EXCEPTION to the slide-lock rule is if after firing all the rounds in the magazine the slide lock fails and the shooter needs to reload without moving, one may do so without locking the slide back before inserting the new magazine. Was this something that happened because the slide lock failed AFTER firing all rounds from magazine? Unfortunately, no, this was a possible failure of mag catch, not slide lock. And shooter did not fire any rounds from the ejected/dropped magazine. Seems the exception does not apply. While I believe the situation would be extremely similar to when the exception would be allowed, the rule seems so insistent that it had to be after firing the rounds in the old magazine, that it seems to me we cannot apply the exception. 3. So, based on failing 1 and 2, I'd have to call it a MSV for reloading with slide not locked back. Yes it's harsh in this instance. To avoid it, shooter should have locked the slide back. If you think it's too harsh in this instance, the rules probably ought to be adjusted to allow it. Good luck, GJ

Aguila or B&P short shells fix that.

The discussions you found were almost certainly about non-sanctioned Wild Bunch matches. For those local matches that follow rules sets devised by other than the SASS Wild Bunch rules committee, you go by those local rules, whicih you usually can get by contacting that particular match director. For state and higher Wild Bunch matches sanctioned by SASS headquarters, you follow the published rules in the Shooter's Handbook, unless that particular sanctioned match has been allowed to run under a variation to a published rule that is to be followed at that match. Such variations to standard rules should certainly be discussed at the safety meeting before the match. Like at EOT, a solid bullet fired over the back berm is a Match DQ.

Wild Bunch rifle requirements, page 9 of WB Shooter's Handbook :) Do you really know just how different those two rifles are? Or is it you can't read? Or is this just stirring the pot? Sorry, but your question seems to be just an old and weary argument dressed up in a pinafore to make it seem attractive. OK, let's for a second assume this is an honest question. Yes, you have read the rules correctly. The Henry Big Boy is not allowed for sanctioned Wild Bunch matches. Why? Because the gun is not a close enough replica of a lever gun made in the allowed time period. (It also does not run very smoothly or fast, has no speed parts available, it a pain to load, and it's just ugly. And the company producing it decided they could take on the name of a very historic company from back in the 1860s, probably to add some cachet or weight to their product line.)