Garrison Joe

To answer what started this off, you say that a gunshow would have something and "would it work?" Well, local or on-line gun dealers, or other shooters, usually have much better matches to your needs at lower prices. One of the new-manufacture Series 70 Colt 1911A1s run about $1000 to $1100 new, and would be a better gun for WB traditional. And the Remington R1 at about $600 or so would be even more cost effective. A more modern gun would be a good choice for Modern category. (Duh) So, like so many gun show "finds" - that one you have seen is neither a good choice for either of the games you are talking about, nor all that good a deal. That one was built to be a collector item mostly, for those interested in the 1911 original model. Even though it (a 1911 model) is representative of the TIME that Wild Bunch covers, remember, we are not a RE-ENACTOR org, we are largely a shooting org, and the value the gun has to be shot quickly and accurately is real important in the long run of things. And the 1911A1 design was a major improvement over the original 1911 in "fast and accurate and controllable by most shooters." Good luck, GJ

Yep. To avoid penalties of any sort, have the slide locked open (not held open) when you move. Good luck, GJ

As you will find in the rule book, the old small "military" sights are not required for either of the two major styles of shooting in Wild Bunch. They can be used, but they are very hard to find quickly. Even in the Traditional category, it is legal to go to a taller front sight with more definition, and a matching taller rear sight (as long as they are not screw-adjustable blade rear sights). Modern category guns can have adjustable rear sights - please see the specs in the rule book. You first should decide for Wild Bunch whether you want to shoot in Modern (two hands holding pistol) or Traditional (one hand on gun) style. This decides a lot of what the gun can be. Realize that one-handed means you need to be pretty capable of quickly managing and recovering from the recoil of almost-factory 45 auto levels, and of working the controls almost exclusively with your strong hand (that is, the slide stop and mag release button). Most shooters are not all that capable of handling that recoil and quickly working the controls. It takes a medium size hand and a firm grip. There's four times as many folks competing in the Modern style of categories than in the Traditional. And they generally shoot faster in Modern. A couple of visits to Wild Bunch matches will help you fix your category/style. And introduce you to the common 1911 guns used in your desired category. Then you can make a great choice of 1911s. Good luck, GJ

We did see that on our posse once. It was fortunately not called out loud while shooter continued through stage, but the MSV penalty was simply applied at the end of the run. Shooter was relieved it was not the SDQ he expected..... It's a good reduction of severity based upon the lack of a real hazard. But it remains a slightly difficult one to adopt your TO style and habits to. Good luck, GJ

I shot all seven to slide lock, as I was used to with just 5'ers. I've been shooting seven in mag for everything but Bordertown for almost a year now. Saw several folks have problems trying to do the 6 and recharge. With the sweeps at WR set for seven or multiples, usually, they could forget to finish their current sweep after charging mag. As a traditional shooter very used to hitting the slide release with shooting thumb, I could not gain much time at all, I would think. Perhaps the modern shooters can, but I doubt it. A tactical reload didn't seem to help anyone I saw shooting them. A year's worth of practice by those shooters may make a difference. A 6 shot sweep might make it attractive, too. IMHO, a tactical reload is most valuable when you never can have your gun empty (as in a real gunfight). Since our targets don't try to shoot back as you are slapping a mag in, well, it is just a game. ;) Guess we will see another demo of it at EOT. Good luck, GJ

But my best cast bullet loads with 8 Mauser is with 5744 - I push the 170 grain slug at about 1550 FPS in my Yugo 24/47. Good luck, GJ

Use the "general purpose" recipe for TB loads for light rifle cast bullet loads! See: https://www.hodgdon.com/resources/data-sheets/ and punch up the Trail Boss light loads. That should get you to: https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf Follow the 3 steps to figure out where to start. Good luck, GJ

TM - No, I'm going to guess it will be hard for us to stay in a proper position to see the slide racking, if it happens. Especially since we have not really been practicing doing that and watching closely, since racking has not been part of the standard drill before (only on recovery from failure to lock back). As I say, this year will be one of testing the waters on the new rules. GJ

TM - I too have concerns about when to call. I'm probably going to take the route of stay quiet regardless of what I THINK the gun condition is, until shooter stops at next position. Then watch to see what pops out when the slide gets racked. If a live round comes out upon racking, well, SDQ called then. If no round, remember a Minor Safety that will be given at end of string. No way for shooter to correct it during stage, once he takes steps. So no need to call anything out loud for the MSV until the end. Don't just look down to see if a live round is on ground to tell difference between the SDQ and MSV call. It could well have popped off the top of a magazine being drawn from holster and loaded. And, unfortunately, the spotters probably will rarely be able to help the TO to make the call. It will all hinge on the TO's ability to position himself to the right side of shooter as the shooter comes to a stop, and to be WATCHING the gun as slide is racked. Now, we will also want to speak up if shooter lays down the 1911 with slide forward. Shooter has until next gun fired to correct that. A verbal warning would help shooter avoid a MSV for having re-staged an empty 1911 with slide closed. I believe we will find this (TO seeing the slide rack clearly) to be a hard thing to do when RO'ing high speed shooters and when dodging around props. WR will make a good proving ground. ;) (Wish it had been put together with simplicity for shooter and TO in mind.) If a TO does make a SDQ call out loud and realizes that was a bad call, do not be afraid to (ask for ability to give reshoot, which major matches are requiring, and then) give the reshoot for having interfered with the run. Good luck, GJ

Now, if other folks are being swept by that muzzle, it's a SDQ, or an MDQ if the gun was loaded. So, make sure you understand why a call is being made!

Nope, penalty is the same regardless of the status (loaded, loaded and chambered, OR unloaded) of the firearm. If at the firing line and you break the 170 degree boundary, you have earned a SDQ penalty. See bottom of page 20 of the shooter's handbook where the SDQ penalty section is. Good luck, GJ

Yee Haw! Way to go, troopers! May you shoot just as well as you filled out your applications for this match! ;D (That is, None of you 133 missed the box for Wild Bunch match!) See y'all there! GJ

About 1500 FPS +/- (estimated, haven't shot that one over chrony) And about 1550 FPS on the 5744 (per instruments) Good luck, GJ

RCBS has a nice 170 grain RNFP mold in .323 diameter if you want to cast your own. I make them about 16 Brinnell hardness (wheelweights with 25% linotype in it), Hornady gas check, White Label Carnuba Red lube, and load over 20 grains of 5744 or 18 grains of 4227. I can usually keep those under 2 MOA. Not a lot of commercial sources for cast rifle bullets, and 8MM are not a common one even if you find someone casting. Getting them from Hoodoo or Purcella is an easy way to start. Good luck, GJ

I intentionally don't pay attention to resetting trigger at all. I don't worry about recoil recovery. I sure don't do the method #2 you listed. I concentrate (as a one-handed shooter) on tightly controlling recoil to minimize muzzle flip, then getting front sight moved over the next target and slapping trigger. (OMG, he slaps the trigger? ;) ) Only on far targets (20 yards and smaller than a bread box) do I concentrate on a "smooth squeeze". I don't "wait" for anything when I'm running the 1911. (Well, I do wait for mag to fall out before getting next mag started in mag well.) So, pull->move to next while recovering any flip->sight picture->pull. Finger tip simply releases all pressure on trigger but contact is maintained (to minimize motion to pull again). Works for me - after 40 years of practice. ;D May not work for you. Good luck, GJ

Thanks for that bit of data, Goatneck. I've not shot a poly coated bullet, and from things I've read on Cast Boolits site, don't think I will for rifle loads. Too many molds to try and not enough time.... ;D Good luck, GJ

170 grain bullet - Wasn't legal in the 2017 or earlier versions of the rules, either. So, doesn't matter if you haven't read 2018 version. 180 grain is the minimum, and a 185 nominal slug is the lightest any reasonable person would want to load, (in case you get a batch that are running lighter than nominal weight, you will still pass the bullet weigh-in if you are selected for a Power Factor check). Good luck, GJ

Cast Boolits forum has a great article on "The Load" that works for most bolt action military guns of the 20th century. It's here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article The article is long, but the summary is a set of four different levels of power: 1. 125 grain plain based "small game/gallery" 900-1000 f.p.s., 5 grains of Bullseye or equivalent pistol powder. 2. 150 grain plain based "100-yard target/small game", 1050-1250 f.p.s., 7 grains of Bullseye or equivalent pistol powder. 3. 170-180 grain gas checked "200 yard target", 1500-1600 f.p.s., 16 grains of Alliant 2400 or equivalent. 4. 180-200 grain gas-checked "deer/600 yard target", 1750-1850 f.p.s., 26 grains of Reloder7 or equivalent. I will certify that the #3 load is a sweet shooting target load, and is quite good for all the bolt action rifles I've tried it in, from 6.5 Swede to 30-06 to 8 mm Mauser. And it will work with a slight powder weight reduction with a lighter (150 grain) slug. Keep velocity below about 1600 FPS and almost any gun will shoot good groups and not lead the barrel. There's tons more info in the C.E. Harrison article that is at the URL. 4759 is a great powder for cast bullet loads - except you cannot buy it anymore. Stopped production about the end of 2015 and ALL the store stock has disappeared. IF you decide to shoot cast bullet loads, you will normally need to scrub all the copper fouling out of the barrel before trying to get reasonable groups with cast bullets. The poly-coated bullets may be a little more forgiving and let you switch between jacketed and poly loads - I've not heard results from anyone on that point. Good luck, GJ

About the only big match that is semi-lost brass is Winter Range, but if you are willing to stay until folks are done shooting each day, you used to be able grab a "suitable amount" of spent brass from what fell on the ground during each day when it is cleaned up by fellow shooters. In 2016 and 2017, WR was able to get enough Boy Scouts to turn out after school on week days that they did go to lost brass (with a sell-back which didn't work all that well). So, for Winter Range, assume you will either lose the WB brass or pay more than the range brass is worth (perhaps you consider it a good cause). Almost ALL other WB matches, large and small, are picked up as the shooter goes through. EOT WB is shagged after each shooter by some of the local Albuquerque area Boy Scouts (and tips that go to camping supplies and equipment are willingly accepted). There is more brass to be shagged in this game than in Cowboy, but also more of the WB posse seems willing and able to shag brass as we go. EVERY monthly or state match in NM and AZ I have ever been to shags as the shooter finishes the stage. So, I'd say what you have been told is not close to most WB reality. :o And worrying about losing brass at WR is among the least of my worries, considering that small cost in the big scheme of WR expenses. I have heard of a few clubs that have lots of props, and they hold off brass recovery until end of day, and they jointly pick up and split the brass. I'm not sure they save much time doing that. And it's less satisfying to each shooter. Good luck, GJ

There is NO reason I know of that, when folks developed the Stage Point Scoring reports in a couple of the software scoring programs, they left out the raw time, misses and penalty data. They made a BAD mistake when they did, because it becomes hard for a shooter to track strengths, weaknesses and possible ways to improve. It also becomes impossible for shooters after the fact to verify that results were correctly entered and tabulated. :-[ Yes, the extra data takes more space. That could have been provided by adding another row to the stage point score line for each competitor. Those details really are important - perhaps more so than powdered sugar on sugar cookies! Good luck, GJ

Now that you have explained a lot more. There is ALMOST no way that you will have a problem with mild Cowboy and even (moderate) Wild Bunch loads with Trail Boss powder with any commercial bullet loaded to 1.55" instead of 1.58" Trail Boss is an expensive powder to use. Red Dot would be easily available and quite a bit cheaper. Or Clays. Both cheaper by quite a bit, and still have a large enough volume to see powder levels in the case. You will still need that Lyman Cast Bullet handbook on your loading shelf. And you do not even need any loading equipment except a powder scale or set of Lee dippers to do the powder height test I laid out for you. You WILL need a fairly short nose bullet to hold length as short as you are planning. A short-nose RNFP may be the only way you get a length down to 1.550". MY 200 grain TC bullets I would not be able to load to much under 1.570" because the nose is too long. In other words, DO NOT buy a ton of reloading components UNTIL you (or a friend of yours) can load some test rounds to check for BOTH compatible OAL and a mild to moderate load that shoots well from your gun. Winter is when shooters often have extra time to try out new loads (even if you have to brave the elements to shoot 'em)! Good luck, GJ

Tully - Fire and Ice at Cowtown! http://www.dustybunch.com/fire_&_ice.htm Good luck trooper! GJ

Well, we gave you some real good advice on the SASS Wire. :o But, why don't you just throw a load of Trail Boss like you want to load, into a dead-primer case. Then hold one of your slugs up next to that case with the case mouth level with where you want to crimp the slug. If the powder level is higher than where the bottom of the slug is, then, yes you would have some compression. Once you do that you will know for certain! And you will have done it your own self. I could do it but I don't own (have never bought) Trail Boss, and I don't have one of your bullets to test with! 1. I REALLY doubt you need to drop to 1.550 overall length to get ammo to run in your gun. My Pioneer short stroked 73 runs any ammo that fits in the carrier shaft - right up to 1.600 OAL. A couple three dummy rounds made with just case and slug would tell you REAL quick (less than 5 minutes work and testing), then you can knock out the slug with a bullet puller and reload case like normal. 2. Trail Boss, like most other smokeless powders, can be compressed a little bit without raising pressures dangerously. Unless you are trying to load at the VERY TOP END of MAX LOADS, a 20 thousandths deeper seating depth of the bullet is not going to blow up a gun. You sure don't need to have anything like a MAX 45 Colt load to shoot either cowboy or Wild Bunch! So stay at a moderate load that makes about 165-185 power factor in your rifle and you have PLENTY of Trail Boss for our games. 3. And if you ARE trying to load a hot load (above SAAMI pressure levels) don't do it in a 73 that has an expensive short stroke kit in it. Get a 92 or even a clunky 94 that was (somewhat) made by the factory to handle 45 Colt cartridges. THOSE guns will handle pressures up well over what a 73 will take. From your line of questions, I would suppose you haven't done a lot of reloading, especially with cast bullets to make low velocity loads. Can I suggest you get and read the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook? It will tell you info you didn't even know you needed to know. ;) Good luck, GJ

At Founder's Los Pistoleros match Saturday, rifle targets were shot at about 17-20 yards. I wrote stages where we shot seven from rifle, so that the same pattern on the longest pistol set could be used for the rifle set (aka, the same target bank). Worked very naturally. (Yes, there was usually a closer shooting position for that 1911 set than where the rifle was shot from but not always.) Good luck, GJ

I REALLY hope that the big front sight gets WELL locked into the mortise on your slide by the person doing the installation. It is RARE that those big heavy replacement front sights can be held securely by that same tenon design that worked for the little nubby original sight. A dovetail for the big front sight is used by almost all custom 1911 builders because it is much more secure and easily replaced if damaged.