J. Frank Norfleet

It was on my end, It didn't like my computer's font!

Still getting an error when I start a new topic.

Now I got an error when I tried to start a new topic> JFN

Cool!

Or 2-1-1-1-2 Or 1-1-3-1-1

New Brothel sweep, 5 targets and 2 mags. triple tap outside, triple tap outside, one on the center second mag: triple tap inside, triple tap inside, one on the center.

As one who has done this many times, here is my call as the rules stand today. The only time you can insert a loaded magazine in a pistol with the slide down is when the slide fails to go to slide lock on an empty mag. I.E. a slide lock failure. All others you must lock the slide back first. If the shooter catches it before it leaves the mag well and pushes it home it is a no call. The only exception would be if the pistol is shot first, the shooter racks the slide and the mag falls out. At that time the clock hasn't started and the shooter simply starts over. If you are on the clock, lock the slide back before inserting a magazine. JFN

What? ? ? ? ? Don't let Joe lead you astray. ;) The softest shooting load I've found for Wild Bunch is 4.0 gr. WST under a 230 gr. RN bullet for a 162 PF. I can't begin to count the number of Wild Bunch shooters that use some variation of that load. The felt recoil is less because you get more of a push with that load. 5.2 gr. of WST with the 230 gr. is the load I can shoot full auto through my Thompson SMG and keep it from walking off the target. The 200 gr. bullets require more velocity to reach PF so you get more recoil. So I don't recommend them. JFN

Los Pistoleros hosted the NM state championships last weekend. From here on out we will be shooting 7 rounds in our mags. JFN

If it is not 180 it is not 180! Also I have found that I get more felt recoil with lighter bullets when I make power factor. JFN

A true regressive sweep. The progressive would be: 1 1-2 1-2-3 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4-5 1-2-3-4-5-6 And it's opposite! 1-2-3-4-5-6 1-2-3-4-5 1-2-3-4 1-2-3 1-2 1 Now keep those straight in your mind from one stage to the next!

In the results of any match you have overall results and category results posted. Anytime you resort from category to overall you shift the point value of a shooter's time on a stage. Example:Capitan Regulator won Traditional. In the category results he got a 100% of the points on six stages because he won six stages in his category. But when you look at the overall scores he didn't win any stages and now his points change because they are scored against shooters from other categories. The whole problem exists because of the two sorts. Anytime you resort, people move to different spots in the sort. It is my understanding that the WBAS committee wanted to only have category winners and no overall winners because the categories represent independent matches. There is a Modern match, a Traditional match, and etc. That makes a lot of sense to me. But SASS overruled them. Hence the dumping of the category results into an overall results to get the overall winners. So what now? - do nothing and recognize there can be shifting of placings when the scores are resorted to overall. - do away with overall winners and only post the category results. - don't sort in to category results and pick the category placings off of the overall results. - have the program rewritten to sort results for overall man and overall lady. Recognizing that there still will be shifting but not as extreme. JFN PS If you are using ACES there is a way to separate the men from the ladies. After all the scores are entered you can go back into edit shooters and delete all the men. This doesn't completely delete them it just means they don't show in the results. You can now print an overall score for Ladies only. Then go back to edit shooters and delete the Ladies and un-delete the men. Now you can print an overall score for the men only.

Cuz' She beat the ladies on six of the stages, essentially tied them on four stages, had one bad stage and an SDQ. How did it happen? She out-shot them on the rest of the match. So turn the question around, "How is it fair for a lady shooter that is turning in times that are competitive to the modern men to be essentially kicked out of the match by an SDQ?" If she can out-shoot them on 11 stages and still win, she needs the trophy! If they don't like it, learn to shoot better! This is a shooting match, not a costume contest! If I remember correctly (and I may not) Long Hunter won the world championship in traditional years ago with an SDQ. He simply out shot everyone else on 11 stages. This is the advantage to stage point scoring. JFN

I strongly disagree! TT essentially gives a shooter with a SDQ a MDQ. Yes, rank points was the worst scoring system I have ever seen. It should have been gone years ago. I think that it is a mistake for SASS to go to TT, they should have gone to stage points. Stage Points is the closest you can get to total time and still give a shooter with a SDQ a fair score. In stage points an SDQ earns a no time, just what they got. In rank points an SDQ got 999.99 seconds (i.e. the max of rank points) and now in TT they get a penalty of 5 seconds a target with 30 seconds added. So not only does an SDQ in SASS get no time, an SDQ becomes a penalty of 150 seconds on a 10-10 & 4 stage! Stage points removed the SDQ penalty of both rank points and total time. I hope that this doesn't sound too offensive but I need to say it anyway. Over the years I have read a lot of the posts advocating TT. I have grown tired of folks advocating TT simply because they can't do simple math. I would rather have a scoring system that is fair to all shooters including the one who earns an SDQ than one that caters to the lowest level of math abilities of the shooting population. Stage points is that scoring system. JFN

HJ, The stage times were posted not the points. JFN

Blaze, the WBAS Committee would make this call not the Ambassadors. JFN

The problem with total time is what do you do with a stage DQ? There is no way to deal with a SDQ in total time so it in essence becomes a Match DQ. And that is not fair. Stage point scoring translates stage time in to points and the shooter gets 0 points for a SDQ. Thus they stay competitive even with a SDQ. The scores on all three of these Ladies are close. Texas Tiger shot 11 stages that were very competitive but she had a SDQ. When the Lady shooters are scored together she is in third place. But when all the shooters are lumped together the basis for her points is the high scoring modern man on each stage and she moves up ahead of Sixgun Sam and Half-a-Hand Henri. So you have two ways of looking at it. First choice, decide that the Overall Lady should be derived by comparing only Lady scores. Or, Second, say, "Look at how well TT shot when compared with all the shooters at the match, even with a SDQ." Recognizing that there will be reversals as there was at this match where TT won the Overall Lady but placed 3rd in her category. P.S. Should the Overall Lady recognize the high scoring Lady among the Lady shooters or should it recognize the high scoring Lady of all the shooters?

I agree with that. It should be done away with.

If you are going to award an overall lady, that award needs to be based on lady scores only. Not pulled from an overall list were the men's times have moved the lady shooter's placings around.

I watched a YouTube video of a guy that sprayed painted his bullets with Rustoleum. LoL He said it was just as good as Poly and wouldn't harm your barrel. Not in my guns.

I have two. One cut to 19.75" and one to 20.25". Both shoot equally well. I prefer the 20.25" because when you take it apart the keepers on the end of the mag tube don't slide off the end of the barrel. We do a lot of shoot and move sequences, those with long barrels tend to hang the muzzle on window and door frames. I've seen them break the 170 that way. So I wouldn't compete without a cut shotgun. (Sorry Lone Dog) JFN

Grouchy Spike, I took your advice and read your thread on the SASS wire. It was very interesting to say the least. There are the usual "I want to shoot this gun" types. e.g.. Luger, Broomhandle, SxS, Glock and etc. They are plinkers and don't add to a competitive sport. What was interesting was the number of comments by serious cowboy competitors who are not interested because of the 5 rounds in the mag limitation. WB is too much like shooting cowboy with a 1911. GS, I do think you need broaden your horizons. You framed the question on the SASS wire, "Cowboys and cowgirls, several of us Wild Bunch Action Shooters are having a discussion on the Wild Bunch forum about how to increase the value of Wild Bunch Action Shooting to attract more CAS shooters into the WBAS game. . . . " Do we really want to limit the growth of WB to CAS shooters? SASS membership is aging and declining. Not the kind of demographic that anyone wants to market to.

Its like deja vu all over again.

I know it hurts to watch. I wish he had used a worn out one or a 3" duck gun. I did learn how the safety worked. I occasionally bump it at the load table and it locks up the action. I keep thinking I need to disable it. JFN

This is interesting.