Boggus Deal Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Looking forward to hear the answers to these, myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'd say 1 is fine and 2 is not, but then, I get told by lots of folks I don't know the rules. ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Since the BAMM rifle matches are a Side Match is WBAS the rules are NOT shown in the Official Shooter's Handbook. The rules as currently codified are shown on this Forum. They were written by Goatneck Clem. They were written extremely tight to avoid "rule creep" as seen so often in CAS. The Committee has NOT taken an official position on them. That being said: In my PERSONAL OPINION I would say the rifle is illegal as configured and that painting the front sight would also be illegal as the rules are currently written. I would, however, expect the rifle to be allowed at almost all "Non-Sanctioned" matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 With HJ 100 percent. The rifle would be illegal because of the external modification. Of course the sight would be illegal because of the color. A good stock man could restore that krag by adding back some wood and a correct steel buttplate. You could tell it by close examination but would make it correct enough for any level of match. As scarce as correct krag carbines are it would be worth the effort. Dusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If you pards are going for that level of zero external mods, be aware of some obvious unintended consequences. By deciding that a replacement butt pad added to a shortened stock would be illegal on BAM rifles, you prevent small stature shooters (like buckaroos, juniors, some women, some men even) from shooting the BAM rifle comfortably. How would someone who needs a 11.5 inch LOP on their long guns ever be able to shoot BAM well? Especially if the match is not a benchrest match, but a real "stand up and shoot" or "shoot from military positions" match? I'm not aware of any bolt action that would meet BAM requirements originally built with a short LOP. (Most were sized so a 5'6" feller could handle the gun well). I too understand the desire not to allow our competitors to creep the rules (I think we even discussed that a few replies ago in this very thread), but I also understand why on the Cowboy side, shortening a stock to fit the shooter or adding a recoil pad is exempted from the "no external mods" rule. Good luck, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bodie Tom Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 It's getting CaBoyish around here....... Perhaps time for 3-gun again........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 So I would have to add wood back? I can't just fit a correct butt on the stock even though it is a little shorter? When I shot service rifle the rules were the same as here. Internal modifications ok, external mods no. The way external modifications were judged was, "did they change the profile of the rifle?" Sight color was not an issue. Hooded sights with an internal diopter were also ok because they did't change the profile of the the rifle. Sights are not an issue for me, I know how to make a shiny front sight dead black. I would like to know about the stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 My rifles all measure between 12 3/4 and 13 except for a Chinese sks and I don't think it would break 11. We don't have youth BAMM or WB and I don't expect a rush of 4' tall BAMM competitors so I think it's a mute point. Anyway if they are that short they would probably need to cut some off the front so they won't fall over! ;D J Frank , I assumed they cut off a fair amount so that's why to add wood. If they just basically took the plate just fit another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 So SKSs are legal now? ;D Dusty that helped, mine will be 12 3/4 with a metal butt plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 J frank, glad to hear. Watch how those fellers in GAF run a krag and you will be impressed. Cowtown scout runs one like that picking up 5 off the belt and just drops them in the magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Those attitudes might just discourage half the potential ladies who have interest in BAM events from even trying. Better think again, before you cry about how few folks want to shoot BAM matches. Let's make the rules be what we need to attract the shooters we want to attract. If we start putting our egos in front of our rules, we end up like a lot of other non-inclusive gun sports, catering to only a handful of big old guys. Looking down the road to a bigger, happier WB turnout, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mulo Vaquero Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Those attitudes might just discourage half the potential ladies who have interest in BAM events from even trying. Better think again, before you cry about how few folks want to shoot BAM matches. Let's make the rules be what we need to attract the shooters we want to attract. If we start putting our egos in front of our rules, we end up like a lot of other non-inclusive gun sports, catering to only a handful of big old guys. Looking down the road to a bigger, happier WB turnout, GJ Well said GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 We will discuss the BAMM rules at the Convention in Dec. Most of the Ambassadors will be there as well as several match directors. Hopefully Goatneck will be able to attend. What, if any, modifications, or additions to the rules will be decided then. The plan is to include the rules in the January 2016 Handbook issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatneck Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I have been off the WB Forum for several weeks and just finished reading the 5 pages of discussion of the BAMM Side Matches. Let me share some background information about BAMM. AS most of you know Vintage Military Rifle Competition has been a popular event in several shooting disciplines for many years. A few years back at our local club Comanche Valley Vigilantes in Cleburne, Texas we tossed around the idea for a Wild Bunch side match using the vintage military rifles. This made for us a good reason to go out and buy more rifles. This brain child came from Dusty Bottoms. Long story short we started shooting a monthly side match. Dusty came up with the name "Bolt Action Military Match" for short "BAMM". What a huge success this side match has been for our club.. We set a few guild line rules to follow. I presented the concept to our Wild Bunch Committee and the rest is history. The rules we have in place were designed where a shooter could purchase a $200 battle rifle and play the game and be competitive with little expense. The BAMM Match is structured so any military rifle off the self can be used. Our distances are close in relation to normal rifle matches. The target size is most generous. Lead can be used if the range will not allow Full Metal Jackets Bullets. Most ranges the targets will not hold up to FMJ bullets. The Nation Rifle Assoc. holds the Nation Championships at Camp Perry every year. One of their matches is a Vintage Military Rifle Match. Their rules are governed by the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program). Our guild lines were taken in part from the CMP. There has been a number of questions arise what is and is not legal. Coloring your front sight is not legal same as in the Traditional class for 1911. Recoil pad is illegal just replace it with steel butt plate. Slings are legal some shooters prefer to shoot off hand. No call if the stock has been shortened. Over the years we have seen gunsmiths and companies refurbish these old battle rifles back to what they looked liked originally. These rifles do fall under "Faithful Reproductions". Good Luck and Good BAMM Shooting Goatneck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilroy Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I'm sure everyone knows this but to repeat the rifle requirements. "Must be an original caliber bolt action rifle issued by any country to its military forces through the end of WW ll. It must be "as issued" with original iron battle sights and no external modifications. Faithful reproductions are also allowed." It was meant to be very simple and easy to comply with. WW ll was used as a time period to make policing simple as there were mods made from to pre WW l through to the end of WWll on many models. The end of WW ll is a easily defined time. Shortening the stock would be an "external modification" and also not "as issued". Anyone who has been in the military realizes everyone shoots the standard rifle. No stocks were shorted or lengthened to make it easier for anyone. Expert scores have been shot by the shortest to the tallest person allowed to enlist. Colored sights were also not "as issued" and is an external modification. We can talk abut whether that is a reasonable interpretation but personally I would like to keep it simple. Was that an issued feature and is it an external modification? So far we have been able to answer all questions using this simple 3 sentence statement. Also a note. We do not specify ammo. The range does. Both the Nationals and the World Championships were shot with jacketed ammo. Some matches specify lead because of target or other considerations. I hope everyone will enjoy BAM matches as much as I do. Wild Bunch in general and the BAM match in particular is the best part for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilroy Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Another note. Wicked Felina is barely 5 ft 2 and is killer with an 03. I'm 6 ft 2 and have no issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackaroo Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Well found myself a nice Mauser 7x57 from a good pard in Washington, (state that is)! Looking forward to giving it a whirl when I get back to OKC tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 BIG really big mistake not to allow ladies and kids to shorten stocks. For, as we all know -- if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Also to not allow the Yugos is just silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackaroo Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 OK so what's a good load for a 7x57 Mauser? As a newbie, I think I need some help here, shot the match at OK WB state champs, with Goatneks, equip. and WR with Union Jack's 303 , so I'm pretty keen to get mine going now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bodie Tom Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Wife is 5"2. Shoots all of my BAMM rifles just fine......... 30/06, Krag (full rifle btw), 7X57, 6.5x55. Just sayin....... Each to their own I suppose. It's a "side" match. What I have seen, shot off a bench, or sticks. Some choose to do it from a "position" as well. Seems pretty basic and the ultimate in simplicity rule wise. Holy crap. There are literally millions of "legal" rifles from 150.00 to true collector four digit guns.... Can't really see an issue...... One can be created for sure...... Seems to be the way it is.... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 OK so what's a good load for a 7x57 Mauser? As a newbie, I think I need some help here, shot the match at OK WB state champs, with Goatneks, equip. and WR with Union Jack's 303 , so I'm pretty keen to get mine going now. Jackaroo, what do you have in powders? 4759 @ 16-18 grains. 2400 @ 16 grains. There are loads for 4895. I think grouchy spike is using trail boss with success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackaroo Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Hi Dusty, Got some Trail Boss none of the others but can probably get some, there seems to be rifle powder around. Where would one pick up some stripper clips for 7x57? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Jacaroo, I haven't used trail boss personally but I would think 11 grains would be prudent and safe as a suggestion. Again talk with someone that has done it because I have not that's purely a guess. Stripper or as your wife says ;D strippea clips if you have a 98 Mauser will be 2 bump like the Swedish Mauser uses along with 03's. I have 2 98 7mm and that's what both take. If you have a 93 or 91 that would I think be the ones with no bump. Best place to buy is eBay. Fast,cheap and if you buy a box of 40,a lifetime supply! Dusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 About 19-20 grains of Accurate 5744 or 20-21 grains Alliant Reloder 7 would probably be nice for about a 145 or 160 grain cast slug in 7x57, if you can find those powders. 2400 was at one time used a lot, but has become less recommended through the years, and is pretty fast burning for 7mm. And 4227 is another great choice. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a good friend to BAM rifle shooters! These loads come right outta there. If shooting jacketed slugs, lots of data around for that.... see tons of online data at http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ Good luck, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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