J. Frank Norfleet Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Since this is on the CAS side it ought to be here too. JFN files.constantcontact.com:.webloc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 J Frank can't open this. I downloaded it from the chronicle email and it's in .pdf. Here it is in .pdf SASS WBAS 2023-2024 FINAL.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Roper Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 I saw the email from Misty to every SASS member regarding WB and the changes. Did I miss something in regards to updates between what we discussed as our proposal to SASS and todays email? I thought we had submitted our comments to SASS and have been waiting for their reply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Roper Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 How will this affect EOT? 38's allowed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 16 minutes ago, Renegade Roper said: How will this affect EOT? 38's allowed? Says effective January 1, 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Under "Sanctioning," I simply cannot accept that dollar value with out a lot more data. I was feeling deceived with the "Membership and Shooting Engagement" numbers, unless there are just way more active SASS member than I can reasonably estimate. Misty claims only $8448 has been taken in for sanctioning fees in the last 10 years! From Bear Creek Volunteers alone hosting sanctioned matches from 2019-2023 I can account for at least $1,035. For state matches I have attended in OK, TX, and KS from 2020-2023 (non-inclusive of all matches, missing at least 4 state matches in this) I can account for another at least $1600 of sanction fees. Based on average shooters, those four state matches I missed, would be about $500 more. Four years, and four states have generated more than $3000. I am to believe the rest of the country can't account for any more? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.N. Double Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 (edited) I've resigned from my role as WBAS Wire admin/moderator (I didn't really do much anyway). Thank you to all the ambassadors who have made and tried to keep this game great. I prefer a competitive, fun, and challenging shooting sport, but it seems Misty is now taking WBAS in a different direction. Looks like EoT 2024 might be my last SASS Wild Bunch™ match. Edited November 2, 2023 by C.N. Double 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted November 2, 2023 Author Share Posted November 2, 2023 19 minutes ago, C.N. Double said: Looks like EoT 2024 might be my last SASS Wild Bunch™ match. Come to NM in April. It is NOT a SASS sanctioned match. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.N. Double Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 3 hours ago, J. Frank Norfleet said: Come to NM in April. It is NOT a SASS sanctioned match. I'm planning on it. I'm guessing the places I like to travel to and shoot the most will keep doing what they've been doing, so I'm not worried about finding great matches to shoot. It seems like some folks really do want bigger closer targets and simpler sequences, and that's fine, but it's those qualities that make CAS boring for me, so I don't shoot it much any more. If sanctioned WBAS matches are moving in that direction, those aren't matches I'll return to. I have no issue with Misty pandering to her members in an effort to make money -- it's a business after all. However, it does seem kind of dirty how she has treated the volunteers who have done so much work to make WBAS what it is (or was). I'm not much of a leader, but I'm an OK soldier, and I'll be glad to support those ambassadors and other volunteers who want to keep building and shooting a game like yesterday's Wild Bunch. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 11 hours ago, C.N. Double said: Looks like EoT 2024 might be my last SASS Wild Bunch™ match. Come to the Arizona State Shoot at Cowtown in February. It's not SASS sanctioned either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvertip Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 This is a shame, Boggus is correct you can’t please everyone, if you want to play the game follow the rules don’t whine about them. Fortunately there are clubs that will stick to the original ideas and make it a challenge. I know it is a business decision but I agree with C N Double about the previous volunteers. ST 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvertip Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 We are paid up for EOT so we will shoot there , after that I don’t know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerHappy Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 I will not change the way I set up and shoot both WB & CAS at my home club. If you want to shoot what your have, then come and play. But leave the competitive natural of Wild Bunch alone at the major venues, i.e. Regionals, National & EOT. It's not a cowboy action with a 1911. I don't want to see more whining by the new CAS or ??? shooters, then change the round counts back to 5 round mags, cause they can't count past 5. Leave it alone. Afraid this may backfire on SASS. Just my 2 cents. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Hi All Have been reading all the WB comments on both the WB Wire and the Cowboy Wire concerning the upcoming rules changes with interest. Many of the comments, on both forums, are well thought out while others remind me of the ‘Chicken Little Syndrome’. My own thoughts think that allowing 38 rifles will change participation level insignificantly. One of my concerns, at the moment is, with the 38 rifle, is which rifle do I use while participating in my chosen category? Plain and simple, I can shoot my slicked out 38 rifle much faster than the slicked out $2K Long Hunter 45Colt rifle I purchased just a few months ago. If my competitors are going to use the faster of the two rifles and those stages are shot, let’s say 2 to 3 seconds faster than me, those seconds add up over the 10 stages of a match. I like to compete and I relish the adrenalin rush of trying my best to be at the top of the heap. Therein lies my challenge. What will I do at the ‘Big Match’ next February? Many matches are won (and lost) over just a few seconds. One of my other concerns are matches themselves. In our travels we have been to WB Matches all over the Western US and Minnesota. Some places, after reading stages, I have to sit down, scratch my head a bit, take out my pencil and sketch out how to shoot this scenario. It’s supposed to fun, not complicated. Have also been places where the scenarios are mind boggling and the pistol targets (along with the rifle/pistol targets) are completely lost behind my front sight on my 1911. Have been to a place, shot a SASS Sanctioned State WB Match and the scores were never posted. Been to a place where the props were so rickety, rules were not followed and competitors who were much more ‘local’ than I left the match in disgust with the vow to vote with their pocket book and never return. Anyone who travels and shoots WB has been to these types of places and probably won’t return. These types of problems, in my humble opinion, are what turns shooters away and not be the soon allowance of 38 rifles, 1887 shotguns or double barrel shotguns. Have also read comments where some shooters would like to see ‘Condition 1’ utilized at WB Matches. For some shooters, not a problem with that. However, have stood behind others and been scared watching them draw, shoot and load their 1911’s. While I might like to do this myself the thoughts of everyone being allowed to do this is somewhat concerning to me. I guess we have to be careful for what we ask for. Over the past day, have noted comments where folks with titles within the SASS WB Organization, after 12/31/23, will no longer have their ‘Titles’ and are upset. I understand that. I also understand that those folks will, in all likelihood, will be voted right back in with new and different titles. Remember, there are many other shooters, standing in the wings for years, that would like to have those same opportunities and will never be given the chance. So, will SASS WB cease to exist because of these new rules? I doubt it. Whether I like these new rules or not, they were a business decision of management to increase participation levels and increase dollars in. In one of my past reincarnations, I audited business for a number of years. Business do not operate at losses for long and continue to exist. My own beliefs are that both organizations, in the next ten years or so, will die a slow death through age attrition. Just to sight my own past, when I came to the area where I shoot now, I was 52 and one of the young guys. Eighteen years later I am now 70 and still one of the younger guys. What does this say to you-all? Many will have different thoughts than I do. Time will tell. Finally, Misty in her email to everyone yesterday, said that we (SASS) are in the ‘entertainment business’. Much can be (and should be) read into that comment. Most, in the generations behind ours, could care less about what we do and it shows. My thoughts, and my thoughts alone, are that if clubs don’t make a large attempt to cater to an aging population that remembers why we do what we do there won’t be any population left. Respectfully submitted, J.J PS - A couple of years ago I was looking to why the 1911 was developed and what it was developed for. This picture has always reminded me of what the distances of the 1911 were developed for. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Folks, concerning the "Condition 1" idea. Every shooting sport, that utilizes Condition 1 to start, require the holster cover the entire trigger guard. This is to keep the finger off the trigger when drawing your pistol If we go Condition 1, everyone will have to get a new holster. Just FYI 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 JJ, for years we heard “if you do _______, I’ll shoot Wild Bunch.” 7 rounds in the mag, tactical reloads, base pads, total time(which was forced on us) and you know what? As soon as those rules all went into effect, those same people had another excuse for not shooting… Like I mentioned in my previous post that was pulled from above, those same people are already making excuses as to why they still won’t shoot Wild Bunch… 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 1 hour ago, JJ said: Over the past day, have noted comments where folks with titles within the SASS WB Organization, after 12/31/23, will no longer have their ‘Titles’ and are upset. I understand that. I also understand that those folks will, in all likelihood, will be voted right back in with new and different titles. Remember, there are many other shooters, standing in the wings for years, that would like to have those same opportunities and will never be given the chance. I can also assure you that those volunteers don’t care one whit about those “titles”. They bust their butts for the betterment of the sport. 11 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted November 4, 2023 Author Share Posted November 4, 2023 On 11/2/2023 at 2:37 PM, JJ said: My own beliefs are that both organizations, in the next ten years or so, will die a slow death through age attrition. Just to sight my own past, when I came to the area where I shoot now, I was 52 and one of the young guys. Eighteen years later I am now 70 and still one of the younger guys. What does this say to you-all? Many will have different thoughts than I do. Time will tell. Now that is the brutal truth. JFN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick Bruce Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) On 11/2/2023 at 1:14 AM, C.N. Double said: I'm planning on it. I'm guessing the places I like to travel to and shoot the most will keep doing what they've been doing, so I'm not worried about finding great matches to shoot. It seems like some folks really do want bigger closer targets and simpler sequences, and that's fine, but it's those qualities that make CAS boring for me, so I don't shoot it much any more. If sanctioned WBAS matches are moving in that direction, those aren't matches I'll return to. I have no issue with Misty pandering to her members in an effort to make money -- it's a business after all. However, it does seem kind of dirty how she has treated the volunteers who have done so much work to make WBAS what it is (or was). I'm not much of a leader, but I'm an OK soldier, and I'll be glad to support those ambassadors and other volunteers who want to keep building and shooting a game like yesterday's Wild Bunch. ☝️This!!!☝️ I'm probably quitting since now i'll have to go buy a 38 rifle with a carbon fiber mag, short stroke kit and start loading mouse fart 38's which also will require me to purchase new brass, primers and dies just to stay competitive. Edited November 7, 2023 by Boomstick Bruce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 11 hours ago, Boomstick Bruce said: ☝️This!!!☝️ I'm probably quitting since now i'll have to go buy a 38 rifle with a carbon fiber mag, short stroke kit and start loading mouse fart 38's which also will require me to purchase new brass, primers and dies just to stay competitive. Don’t quit! Just come shoot with the redress of us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 On 11/2/2023 at 3:16 PM, Flying W Ramrod said: Folks, concerning the "Condition 1" idea. Every shooting sport, that utilizes Condition 1 to start, require the holster cover the entire trigger guard. This is to keep the finger off the trigger when drawing your pistol If we go Condition 1, everyone will have to get a new holster. Just FYI Not everyone as there are some holsters out there that do cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 USPSA rules 5.2.7.4 "A holster which does not completely prevent access to, or activation of, the trigger while holstered." Tell me how this Mernickle holster doesn't meet the USPSA requirements. Untitled.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick Bruce Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Can we just make traditional all 40 or larger? leave the mouse farts and race guns in the modern category... Or start allowing the 1917 browning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard Cowboy Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Boomstick, Do you shoot Cowboy or just Wild Bunch? If you do shoot Cowboy are you shooting a 45C or 38spl rifle in Cowboy? To me makes no difference on the rifle, I can actually shoot my 45C faster than my Cowboy 38spl. I would prefer to load the 38spl as I load for three folks shooting WB. I can shoot my 38 for 1/2 the cost of the larger 45. With the rifle being downplayed so much we are looking at maybe 60-70 rifle rounds total for a large match. Compared to almost 300 rounds, or more, of 45acp. The match is won with mag changes, not the rifle. I don't care one way our the other. I'll continue to shoot my 45C for WB. Now the other two shooters may want 38's, but there is no advantage in my opinion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvertip Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Hello Norfleet yes that holster obviously is fine but I have seen a lot that don’t cover the trigger guard. ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.