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JJ

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Everything posted by JJ

  1. Hi All Have been reading all the WB comments on both the WB Wire and the Cowboy Wire concerning the upcoming rules changes with interest. Many of the comments, on both forums, are well thought out while others remind me of the ‘Chicken Little Syndrome’. My own thoughts think that allowing 38 rifles will change participation level insignificantly. One of my concerns, at the moment is, with the 38 rifle, is which rifle do I use while participating in my chosen category? Plain and simple, I can shoot my slicked out 38 rifle much faster than the slicked out $2K Long Hunter 45Colt rifle I purchased just a few months ago. If my competitors are going to use the faster of the two rifles and those stages are shot, let’s say 2 to 3 seconds faster than me, those seconds add up over the 10 stages of a match. I like to compete and I relish the adrenalin rush of trying my best to be at the top of the heap. Therein lies my challenge. What will I do at the ‘Big Match’ next February? Many matches are won (and lost) over just a few seconds. One of my other concerns are matches themselves. In our travels we have been to WB Matches all over the Western US and Minnesota. Some places, after reading stages, I have to sit down, scratch my head a bit, take out my pencil and sketch out how to shoot this scenario. It’s supposed to fun, not complicated. Have also been places where the scenarios are mind boggling and the pistol targets (along with the rifle/pistol targets) are completely lost behind my front sight on my 1911. Have been to a place, shot a SASS Sanctioned State WB Match and the scores were never posted. Been to a place where the props were so rickety, rules were not followed and competitors who were much more ‘local’ than I left the match in disgust with the vow to vote with their pocket book and never return. Anyone who travels and shoots WB has been to these types of places and probably won’t return. These types of problems, in my humble opinion, are what turns shooters away and not be the soon allowance of 38 rifles, 1887 shotguns or double barrel shotguns. Have also read comments where some shooters would like to see ‘Condition 1’ utilized at WB Matches. For some shooters, not a problem with that. However, have stood behind others and been scared watching them draw, shoot and load their 1911’s. While I might like to do this myself the thoughts of everyone being allowed to do this is somewhat concerning to me. I guess we have to be careful for what we ask for. Over the past day, have noted comments where folks with titles within the SASS WB Organization, after 12/31/23, will no longer have their ‘Titles’ and are upset. I understand that. I also understand that those folks will, in all likelihood, will be voted right back in with new and different titles. Remember, there are many other shooters, standing in the wings for years, that would like to have those same opportunities and will never be given the chance. So, will SASS WB cease to exist because of these new rules? I doubt it. Whether I like these new rules or not, they were a business decision of management to increase participation levels and increase dollars in. In one of my past reincarnations, I audited business for a number of years. Business do not operate at losses for long and continue to exist. My own beliefs are that both organizations, in the next ten years or so, will die a slow death through age attrition. Just to sight my own past, when I came to the area where I shoot now, I was 52 and one of the young guys. Eighteen years later I am now 70 and still one of the younger guys. What does this say to you-all? Many will have different thoughts than I do. Time will tell. Finally, Misty in her email to everyone yesterday, said that we (SASS) are in the ‘entertainment business’. Much can be (and should be) read into that comment. Most, in the generations behind ours, could care less about what we do and it shows. My thoughts, and my thoughts alone, are that if clubs don’t make a large attempt to cater to an aging population that remembers why we do what we do there won’t be any population left. Respectfully submitted, J.J PS - A couple of years ago I was looking to why the 1911 was developed and what it was developed for. This picture has always reminded me of what the distances of the 1911 were developed for.
  2. HI Robgun - I also had problems with a Model 12 like you are describing. After many frustrating hours I finally came across this: https://jackfirstinc.com/winchester-12-12-ga-carrier-assembly-no-ledge-w-cartridge-guide-112-9212-10?limit=100 Ordered a couple of them. One used ans one old/new stock. The old/new stock would not work in the gun. When cycling the old/new stock locked up the gun tighter than a drum. Apparently it had to be tuned. Placed in the used one ordered and have not had a problem since. The other solution for you is to hold you gun angled to your left, if you can remember to do that when shooting as fast as you can. This seems to work also, but not as reliable as the carrier with a flag. Kinda spendy but I believe your problems will be solved. good luck!! J.J.
  3. Over the past few months I have been to a quite a few Wild Bunch Matches that have been spread all over the Western US. I have to say, Tully's 2022 CA State WB Match has been one of the most fun to shoot. Especially enjoyed the two stages that were "Shoot until all the targets are down". Both of those stages are referenced above. It was impressive to watch Silvertip, Frederick Jackson Turner, Gopher Broke (who shot at least one of the stages with pistol only) and Tully blaze away with their handguns. My comment to all four of these guys is, "Someday when I grow up and learn to shoot, I want to be able to shoot just like you guys." I am sure that there were others on the other posse that shot these two stages equally well. I just didn't get the chance be on the other posse to observe them. Tully and Slo Mo Steph worked hard and produced a Wild Bunch Match that was enjoyable for everyone. Way to go you two and all the others that helped produce the 2022 CA State Wild Bunch Match. Already looking to next years 2023 CA State Wild Bunch Match wherever it is. J. J.
  4. Doc - One item I need to make a touch bit clearer for you. WB shooters, during a cowboy match, shoot at the cowboy range targets. There are no targets set specifically for WB Shooters. Like many other organizations, we have a hard enough time getting shooters to help set and pick up steel. Asking these individuals to set out steel for the occasional WB shooter(s) would create a riot by a bunch of old farts! Wouldn't that be a sight to see!! Interestingly enough all three local organizations are comprised of about 95% of the same shooters. Two organizations allow WB shooters alongside the cowboy shooters and the other will not. Go figure. J.J.
  5. Doc - Around our neck of the woods (Northern Nevada/Fernley) we have three cowboy clubs. Two of the three organizations allow WB'ers to shoot WB at cowboy matches. As Frederick Jackson mentioned, we also use 5 round magazines that are shot in the same manner as cowboy shooters against the pistol and rifle targets. Rifle is then shot in the same manner as cowboy shooters. Shotguns are stoked in the same manner as WB. Movement with the stoked shotgun follows the same rules as WB. Our only different requirement for those shooting WB during the cowboy matches is that the RO for the WB shooter must be a WB RO. Also the WB RO must be an experienced WB shooter and not someone who took the WB RO Certification Course years ago and has not shot WB on a regular basis. The shooter shooting WB guns must follow WB rules just as they would in a regular WB Match. All guns of the WB shooter are cleared on the line. Before leaving the line the RO announces to the posse that all guns have been cleared before the shooter leaves the firing line. These rules have worked out for us over the past few years. The only complaint from the posse (if any) is generally from the brass pickers. They are annoyed (and rightfully so) that there is a bunch of extra brass to pick up after the WB shooter is through :-). Hope this answers some of your questions above and how we have worked this WB shooting stuff out during our regular cowboy matches. J.J.
  6. I read this thread with interest. I had never thought of changing out the mainspring housing with anything different than what can on my Remington R1. It came with flat straight grooved housing. After reading some of the thoughts of others I ordered a serrated straight housing to try that out. With the Cool Hand G10 grips that I now use and the new serrated housing, this combination seems to hold my average hand size quite well once I hand is wrapped around the handle of the 1911. I tried a few rounds yesterday and I liked the feeling of the new combination. Thanks for all of your comments, they are quite helpful.
  7. Howdy All - Last year at the conclusion of the 2020 California State Wild Bunch Match I received an email from Mr. Ed (who is the Horse of Course). At that time I was the editor or the Battle Born Rangers Monthly Newsletter. This year Mr. Ed again sent me an email concerning the 2021 California State Wild Bunch Match and asked me to post it for everyone to read. Apparently he, Wilbur and Carol were in attendance again this year. Over the past couple of years Mr. Ed has submitted a few articles to be posted in the Battle Born Rangers Newsletter. I suspect next month this article will be posted in the Battle Born Rangers newsletters also. The following is what he sent. Hello - It’s Mr. Ed (the Horse of Course) again. The last few months from the 2020 California State Wild Bunch Match have flown by in record time. Wilbur is always looking for places to travel and go Wild Bunch Shooting so he again asked me what I thought of us again traveling to Diamond Dicks Cowboy Town (DDCT) at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center in Sloughhouse California to attend the 2021 California State Wild Bunch Match. I thought about this statement for a very brief moment and then stomped my right hoof and neighed with joy about attending one of our favorite matches in our travels. As Wilbur and Carol lead me out to the trailer, read on and you will find out why. The 2021 California State Wild Bunch is again over and what a time it was. As I mentioned a number of months ago Wilbur, Carol and I would attempt to attend and we were able to. Before we left this year Wilbur, at Carol’s insistence, did purchase that fancy new horse trailer and new truck. Wilbur no longer has to store my hay on the top of the trailer like he did on the old trailer. He is happy about that. He says that he is getting too old to toss bales of hay on the top of the trailer anymore. When we arrived at DDCT a couple of days before the Wild Bunch Match it was a little warm. Thank goodness the new trailer is air conditioned for the three of us. This year we parked down by the pond at the range. The breeze was nice and cool as it came off the water. Fortunately the rest of the days for the match the temperatures cooled down and the evenings were comfortable. During the three days of the math, Wilbur and I went for some memorable evening rides enjoying the cool breezes, observing the numerous wildlife at the range and later in the dark of the evening watching the millions of stars in Gods magnificent sky. On the starting Thursday morning of the match, Wilbur strolled down to the range to register for the match. Tully Mars (the 2021 Match Director) was just as surprised to see Wilbur this year as he was last year. Wilbur did make a short commitment to Tully to try to hit a few more targets than he did last year. Tully, after his jovial laughter had finished, had to sit down for a few moments to catch his breath. As Day 1 of the match commenced, Wilbur walked down the range to watch the Thursday side matches. After a short stroll he found a bay where they were shooting the Speed Pistol and Shotgun events. Just like last year, as Wilbur watched the contestants shoot, he was again amazed how scary fast many of the men and women 1911 shooters were. Wilbur also mentioned how fast these people could fire their shotguns. At night I think Wilbur has dreams at night about being able to shoot his 1911 and his shotgun like all of the contestants. It must have been awesome to watch the festivities. As Wilbur continued down the bays, he found a Side Match that he had never seen before. It was called a ‘Turkey Shoot Side Match’. As he watched the event he saw that the Wild Bunch folks were shooting at little red knock down targets that were hidden behind larger targets. There were ten of these little turkey targets hidden behind five or six larger targets. Each shooter had to move through a series of three windows to be able see all of the targets. The ‘Turkeys’ were far enough back that each of the contestants were shooting them with their match rifles. Some of the contestants even attempted to shoot the turkeys with their 1911’s. Wilbur did mention to me that after watching the contestants shoot with their 1911’s that he had a much greater respect for the Hollywood people who are able to shoot at their handguns at targets from 50 to 75 yards or further out and never miss!! He believes they must have some really good trainers. The last Side Match Wilbur watched was an event where contestants attempted to shoot playing card in half with their 1911’s. The cards were mounted on 4x4’s about five or six feet from the firing line. Wilbur wasn’t really sure about the distance because he would not be able to perform that trick anyway. Contestants were tasked to load 5 magazines with a single round each. They then attempted to shoot the card in half when the timer went off. As he watched the event it was funny to watch some shoot the 4x4’s with their 1911’s. However, some contestants were able to hit multiple cards. In the end one of the contestants won the event by shooting all five playing cards in half. Wilbur was quite excited as he explained this to me. Unfortunately, Carol could have cared less when he told her. Day 2 of the match commenced early in the morning with the usual gathering of the group for safety instructions and announcements. Wilbur especially listened to the safety instructions. He was somewhat concerned about what to do if he accidently ‘winged’ himself. The group then disbursed to their posse and bay assignments. A short time later rounds were being fired down range. I understand that many of the shooters, at the end of the day, expressed to Tully how much fun they had shsooting his stages and target placements. The only disparaging negative comments Wilbur expressed was how small the tutanka targets (buffalo) were on one of the stages. Wilbur believes that on that stage were each time he fired his 1911 or rifle at the tutanka’s they either jumped, kneeled down or moved to the right or left each time he fired his guns. I think he must have had a bunch of misses on that stage. Throughout the shooting bays many different stage scenarios were set. Only a few of the targets were somewhat closer and some were out far enough that Wilbur stated next year he would have to replace his WWII stubby front sights on his old 1911 with something larger so that he could actually see them on the end of his gun. Carol mentioned to him something about perhaps purchasing a new 1911. As Wilbur turned around and looked to me, after Carol’s comment, his eyes started to beam. The bays targets were arranged with squares, circles, dueling trees, smaller club and diamond shapes, the small ‘turkey’ knockdowns, an 8’ plate rack, tombstone knockdown plate rack, paddle shaped shotgun knockdowns, tutanka - cowboy - coffin targets and (or course) a Texas Star target. Wilbur did not do very well on the Texas Star. He told me when contestants shoot one of the paddles off that are on the end of the 5 steel arms, it falls off and the Texas Star starts to spin around on its ball bearing axis. I suspect he missed one or two of the paddles as the Texas Star started to spin around faster and faster making it harder to hit the rest of the paddles. Wilbur must have done poorly on the Texas Star because his head was spinning round and round as he was explaining this to me. I got a little dizzy watching him. He also mentioned he was extremely glad Tully did not design that particular stage to shoot the Texas Star with 1911’s. Strangely enough, Wilbur says some Wild Bunch shooters enjoy shooting the Texas Star with their 1911’s. He has a hard time understanding that!! When Day 3 came the shooting of the final five stages of the ten stage match commenced early in the morning. Everyone I noticed was excited to begin their day of shooting. About an hour after the match was over, everyone gathered around a place called ‘Rosie’s Cafe’ at DDCT for the Award Ceremony, raffle drawings while told each other stories of their accomplishments and perhaps disappointments. The scores were quickly calculated by a person from Nevada. As Wilbur explained to me, all the shooters’ scores were entered into iPads by a different shooter right after that shooter was finished with their stage. At the end of Day 2, the iPads were recharged and ready for Day 3’s festivities. The program for scoring was called ‘CAS Scoring System’. I hope some of you understand what that means because my ears twitched as I struggled through Wilbur’s explanation of the scoring worked on the iPads. He assured me that if I took a few minutes to learn the program that next year, if I wished, I could enter the scores into the iPad for his posse. He says is really quite simple to learn and use. When the match was over it only took less than 2 minutes for the Nevada person to sync all three of the posse’s iPads to a Master iPad. The scores were then magically ready for all to see after the Award Ceremony. Just like last year the Award Ceremony and raffle drawing commenced without a hiccup. The ceremonies were finished in less than an hour. Wilbur mentioned that Tully had enough raffle prizes for everyone that stayed for the Award Ceremony. Wilbur was glad he stayed for the ceremony. He was happy that he was able to pick out a nice prize when his number was called. Many shooters recceived nice looking trophies for their accomplishments. The top three winners of each category received a trophy that looked like a 1911 mounted on top of a 45acp bullet. The first place trophies were larger than the second place trophies and the second place trophies were larger than the third place trophies. The shooters standing was etched on the 45acp bullet. This year Tully also ordered some much smaller trophies like those mentioned in this paragraph for all of the side match winners. There were even different types of trophies for the top man and woman Turkey and Card Cutting winners. As like last year Wilbur hung out at the back of the crowd during the Award Ceremony with his eyes staring at the ground. Someday he hopes to be able to have a shooting trophy to mount on the stable walls. Not everyone attending shooting matches are able to win a trophy. Some come for the enjoyment of being with others and the pleasure of shooting their guns. Just as quickly as the match started it was over. After the Award Ceremony was completed most of the contestants hitched their covered wagons to their mechanical horses and headed off to the surrounding hills to make their way home. Some stayed to leave the following morning while enjoying the evenings peace and solitude. Wilbur, Carol (and ‘Yes’ me) are again already planning on attending the 2022 California State Wild Bunch Match. Wilbur, Carol and I hope all of you fellow Wild Bunchers from near and far will also attend. Perhaps if you take a few walks around the facility and look around you will spot us. And I am Mr. Ed
  8. Hi All - I recently purchased a newer Model 12 as a backup for my older match Model 12. This weekend I dissembled, sonic cleaned, scrubbed and scrubbed all of the old crud out of all the parts and then oiled all of those parts. The gun is now scattered around on the bench awaiting reassembly. While I shoot Model 12's for WB, I still struggle with lubrication points within the gun. My cowboy 97's are easy to spot with the wear points because of their use. These 12's are somewhat of an enigma to me. They do not enough use to find the wear points for lubrication. When I look in the receiver (through the bottom to the top) there are wear points that are easy to spot where bolt rubs on the top of the receiver and as it slides out of the cavity where the leading edge of the bolt rests when in firing position. Those are the only two points easy to spot. The rails that the bolt slide on on this new gun are not even worn yet. It was manufactured in 1955 but it was not seen much use. My question to all of you who know much more than I do it this: What are the other lubrication points within the 12 and what are they lubed with (ie oil or grease)? Thanking everyone in advance for taking time and read and perhaps writing an answer for us less learned Wild Bunchers. Respectfully - J.J.
  9. Hi All - I can speak from experience here. Tully Mars and the Gold Country Wild Bunch group put on one heck of a match. I have attended their matches over a number of years and have not been disappointed. Their facilities at Diamond Dicks Cowboy Town are great. Plenty of camping space and water to boot! If any of you are looking for an adventure towards the middle of May, hitch up the wagon and journey to the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. You will not be disappointed. After Tully's email, I received an email from Mr. Ed (The Horse of Course). It looks like he and Wilbur will also be attending the Match. Wilbur even made some comment to Mr. Ed about bringing Carol along this year. There might be a short problem with Carol's attendance however. Apparently Wilbur is going to have to purchase a larger horse trailer and a new bigger truck. Carol likes to travel heavy. He said something about looking for one of those trucks that have the four tires on the back. Mr. Ed was not to sure what that meant, but he seemed excited. So come out to the event and shoot with the crowd. J.J.
  10. Just last weekend the 2020 Rescheduled California State Wild Bunch Championship Match was concluded. The weather was cool in the mornings and evenings and I believe everyone in attendance had a good time. After the California State Wild Bunch Match, the Battle Born Rangers from Northern Nevada published their monthly newsletter for November. In it was a short article written by the one and only Mr. Ed (the Horse of Course) who occasionally writes articles for this newsletter. The enclosed article was his observations of the California State Wild Bunch Match. Hello - Mr. Ed here again. Last week Wilbur again asked me if I would like to take a ride with him again for another weekend match. I told him “Sure, why not, I don’t have much going on again this weekend anyway.” Thursday afternoon Wilbur again started loading up my trailer and started placing the hay bales on the top. I noticed that he placed a couple of extra bales on the trailer and I asked him “Wilbur, just where are we going this weekend?” He told me over the mountains and into a foreign country called “The Republic of Kalifornia” and that the extra bales of hay were a ‘just in case’ precaution for me. Friday morning he hitched up the tailer to the truck and off we went. Four and a half hours later we arrived at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. We drove to the end of the ranges and found a place called ‘Diamond Dicks Cowboy Town’ where we spend the weekend with cool mornings, cool evenings and warm sunny afternoons camping out with other shooters. The first afternoon (Friday) was spent with Wilbur doing something called ‘Speed Matches’. I had not seen these before. There were matches for something called Speed Rifle, Speed Pistol and Speed Shotgun. There was even a separate stage called ‘Machos Federales’. That was especially fun to watch being shot. There were 52 targets that had to be knocked down with the shooter’s handgun called a 1911 (more about this later) along with two cowboy poppers that were shot with a shotgun. The shooters could as many handgun bullets needed to hit the knockdowns. Some did much better than others. I noticed when Wilbur shot this stage, he probably needs some more practice before attempting that again. Some of the shooter’s behind him were laughing uncontrollably and called for many others to step in help pick up brass. The match we attended was the California State Wild Bunch Championship Shooting Match. I have never been to one of these Wild Bunch Matches before. It was quite the sight. The shooters don’t use the regular cowboy 6-guns that I am used to seeing. They use a 1911 45acp, a pump shotgun (either Winchester Model 97 or a Winchester Model 12) and a rifle that looks like the rifle the regular cowboys in regular cowboy matches use. Wilbur did mention that the rifle used had to be at least a .45 caliber rifle. This didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me so I shuffled my hoof on the ground in acknowledgement anyway. It seemed to make him happy. I found out that the Wild Bunch Shooters shoot 10 stages at their big matches in lieu of the 12 stages required by cowboy matches. I guess it was the longer shooter times that brought about the 10 stages. Most of the stages required anywhere from 21 to 35 1911 45acp rounds, 7 rounds in the rifle and the shotgun could be loaded with 6 rounds. The shotgun was fun to watch these people shoot. There were a couple of shooters (both girls and guys) that were really fast shooters with their 1911’s. The shooters that could shoot their shotguns and 1911’s really fast were especially fun to watch. I wish I could have walked over the other group so see if they did just as well as Wilbur’s group. I should also mention that many of these shooters dressed up like World War I soldiers. I still don’t understand what that was all about, but they all seemed to enjoy what they were doing and were proud of their costumes. As I was hitched up to the trees behind the stages, I enjoyed watching the match. I did not enjoy wearing my COVID mask. The mask fogged up my safety glasses to easily making it especially hard for me to clear them. Watching this match was so much different that the cowboy matches Wilbur has taken me to. The activity levels seemed to be much more intense because of the number of bullets being shot and the stages took much longer to shoot. I did notice that the targets were further back making it much harder for the shooters to hit. I also noticed that many of the shooters missed a bunch less than Wilbur did. I did make a note to myself to tell Wilbur that he needed to practice some a little more with his 1911 before the next match. As usual after the match there was a scurrying of activity. Wilbur told me a guy called ‘Tully Mars’ was in charge of the match. I did notice him scurrying around the stages during the two days. He seemed very busy but enjoyed what he was doing. He worked very hard during the two days I noticed him scurrying around. As Wilbur’s posse was finishing up their shooting, a person called ‘Blackhorse’ gathered everyone together to talk to them. I’m not too sure why he is called himself ‘Blackhorse’. His coat was not black and he did not look like a horse either. His name must have some significance to him that I do not fully understand. What he did say that he wished everyone a big ‘Thank you’ for being there, thanked the two ladies who helped out with the scoring and then thanked the posse for joining General’s Pershing Incursion into the territory for the two days. He gave everyone in the posse the standard days pay ($.50) for each day’s work in the form of a shiny $1 gold piece. Wilbur was very proud of his shiny $1 gold piece as he climbed into his saddle and we rode off for a bit. Just as suddenly as the match started it was over. Some of the shooters left quickly after the match. It must have been a long drive home for many. Others stayed around for something called an ‘Award Ceremony’. I have never been to one of these before. It was quite the deal. They gave away many prizes to the shooters just for being at the match. I recognized many of the shooters at this match, though I don’t know many of their names, Wilbur knew most everyone. Since I am usually hitched to a tree of something else, I don’t really get to close to become familiar with their names. As the Awards were handed out, I recognized the Nevada Shooter’s names. I hope I got this correct. Fanner Fifty: 2nd Place in the Men’s Senior Modern Category J.J. 1st Place Men’s Senior Traditional Category and 1st Place Men’s Speed Rifle Deadeye Dick: Honorable Mention Men’s Senior Modern Category Sheriff Winchester: Honorable Mention Men’s Traditional Category Wylie Fox Esquire: I believe I heard the Match Director mention that Wylie fell down some steps on the way to the match on the second day. I did notice he was hobbling around the second day of the match with an Ace bandage strapped around his leg with ice bottles underneath. Wilbur and I both hope he is feeling better and did not hurt himself to badly. Rubicon: He was supposed to be at the match but could not make it. Apparently, a week or so before the match he was out with a bunch of his old cop friends, in a large group setting, and picked up a terrible cold that has now turned into COVID and complicated with phenomena. Wilbur: Well, the Match Director (Tully Mars) thanked him for coming to the match and donating his match fee. When the Awards Ceremony was over Wilbur rode me back to the trailer, hitched up to the truck to the trailer and off we drove. Three and a half hours later we were back home. Shortly after arriving at the barn I was again back in my familiar stall, comfortable, warm, fed and watered. Until next time - Mr. Ed The Matches State Overall Champions and Speed Match Results. Rum Walker: California State Senior Modern Champion and Top Women’s Champion Molly Magoo: California State Ladies Modern Champion Rusty Rose: California State Ladies Traditional Champion Short Fuse Tucker: California State Senior Traditional Champion Cordite: California State Traditional Champion Tully Mars: California State Modern Champion and Top Men’s Champion Speed Shotgun: 1. Sunrise Bill 2.91 2. Short Fuse Tucker 3.06 3. Gopher Broke 3.13 Speed Shotgun Ladies: 1. Molly Magoo 4.56 2. Miss Chievious 5.61 3. Rusty Rose 12.42 Speed Rifle: 1. J. J. 2.90 2. Wolf Taylor 3.32 3. Steeley Eyes Mike 3.47 Speed Rifle Ladies: 1. Molly Magoo 9.17 2. Rusty Rose 9.17 Miss Chievious 10.20 Speed Pistol: 1. Gopher Broke 6.28 2. Sunrise Bill 6.59 3. Steeley Eyes Mike 7.85 Mucho Federales 1. Tully 60.24 2. Gopher Broke 70.50 3. Wolf Taylor 79.28 For the full scores to the 2020 California State Wild Bunch Match go to the following website: https://cagunslingers.com
  11. Tully - As you are already aware 6 of your shooters arriving on Friday are from Nevada. 17% of your shooting force. I believe all of us are looking forward to a good time. J.J.
  12. Tully No problem, my friend. I had too many duties last week with both the NV State WB Championship and the 23rd Annual Roop County Days to deal with much else. Thanks for your help last week. Your efforts to help our organization out are exactly why you were appointed to a WB Ambassador position. See you this weekend (perhaps) at the Gold Country WB Match at DDCT. J.J.
  13. Hello the Wild Bunch Wire - Late last year I purchased my first Model 12 scattergun for WB Shooting. Last week, the Battle Born Rangers based in Fernley Nevada, hosted our 3rd Nevada State WB Match. During that match I had the privilege of being possed with many good shooters of which most were using Model 12's. The Model 12 I purchased many months ago just does not feed properly. I did address this problem on this forum and Goatneck, who is no longer with us, responded to me explaining the problem and how to fix the problem. Unfortunately I never took the time to have Goatneck fix my ailing Model 12. Now, being out in the middle of basically no-where, I again have absolutely no idea on who does Model 12 action work. Any help offered, either on this forum or in a PM to me would be greatly appreciated. By the way - for our match last week, Tully Mars (a frequent contributor to this forum) came to visit us and again took 'Top Honors' for the match. It was a pleasure to be on the same posse with him, watch him shoot his 45 and Model 12 and an honor for him to call me his friend. Our scores for the 2019 Nevada State Wild Bunch Match will be posted on the following link just as soon as our webmaster catches up from a week of heavy involvement with the Reno Air Races. http://www.northernnevadacas.com/html/scores.html Thanks - J.J.
  14. Hey All - Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. The answers given are right along the lines I though they would be. It's always good to know that the WB Forum can give quality answers to odd questions concerning our written rules. Thanks again - J.J.
  15. Hi All . . . I hope this will be a quick question - though I doubt it. Today while out tossing rounds down range, I was asked what the definition of 'modern shooting gloves' is? I had absolutely no idea and the rules deal with nothing specific other than saying they are not allowed. I think I understand that if I were to go to the local Sportsman Warehouse and pick up a set of gloves labeled 'shooting gloves' than these type of items are not allowed. I got that part. Now how about if a person comes to a match with a pair of cowboy roper gloves (some are very thin leather) with the trigger finger cut off? Is this allowed? How about if the trigger finger is not cut off? Or how about if a shooter stops at the Home Depot and brings home a set of those nice $14.95 gloves that fit tightly and are strapped down at the wrist with velcro? I also suspect these types if gloves might not be allowed. Not attempting to stir up any controversies, just attempting to get some clarification. thanks in advance - J.J.
  16. Yup - I also think the current scoring system for Wild Bunch stinks. As Tully mentioned Total Time would be my preference also. I wonder how many other Wild Bunch Shooters would have the same preference? And - as a comment here: For a Hobby/Sport that is dying a slow death, why can not the powers-to-be attempt to accommodate just a few requests. Why not show both scoring systems for the large matches. What harm could there possibly be to accommodate all shooters to show the two different scoring systems? Sometimes goofy rules make no sense to most. As Marshal Stone seemed to indicate, what a shame there seems little chance for change when those in charge display appearances of having their heads buried in the sand and seem to not care what is happening around them. Of course others mileage may vary.
  17. I want to thank you two guys for your posts. Both answers are a great help. Now if I would have accomplished my due diligence early this morning, with just a little searching on this forum, I could have had an answer without bothering you guys, Just one other question (loaded question) - who is a good person to send off this/these scattergun(s) for an action job? I/we have absolutely no idea on this. A PM is just fine. J.J.
  18. Hello Everyone - A few weeks ago I purchased a Winchester Model 12. It is an older scattergun manufactured in the middle 1920's. It appears to have been hunted quite a bit but shot very little. The action is tight and the gun cycles very nice. The inside parts appear to have very little much wear and the barrels inside looked like a mirror. So here's the problem - When cycling shells into the chamber 'occasionally' a shell when lifted from the feed tube will catch itself on the outside right edge of the right side of the shell and hang up on front edge the port leading into the scattergun's chamber. I hope I have explained this correctly. This issue was videoed yesterday when test firing a couple of boxes of shells. In slow motion it was quite noticeable. I wish I knew how to post the video here. This problem happens with both factory and reloaded shells. Interestingly enough a friend of mine also purchased a Model 12 manufactured in the same era. Yesterday while test firing the scatterguns he encountered the exact same problem. For all of you guys that are way much more knowledgeable than us, any insight here would be a great help. We are both hoping for a fix that we can accomplish ourselves. If not who do we send them to for 'whatever'? Thanks in advance for any advice any may be able to offer us. J.J.
  19. WoW !! I read this WB Forum and the SASS Cowboy Forum frequently. It never ceases to amaze me on how some work, so amazingly hard, to continue to harm this sport. If that is all a TO has to do is to somehow count the rounds in a shooters magazine(s) while on the shooters belt and not inform the shooter of the possible infraction before he starts the stage, that person has way too much time on their hands. Quite possibly that person should retake the WB RO Class no matter how new or long he had his WB RO badge . This type of action does absolutely nothing to further Wild Bunch Shooting. By the way - I have made poor calls also. Not particularly proud of them, but I have learned from them. After reading the Jackaroo's post it's no wonder why, in my mind, this is a dying sport. Between reading this sort of stuff on the WB Form and others like it on the SASS Cowboy Forms there is no doubt in my mind why I believe I will easily outlive these two shooting sports. Some may or may not agree with my comments. They are, however, my thoughts. J.J.
  20. Thank you very much for your replies guys. When I saw those big holes in the brass, I had absolutely no idea why that would have been accomplished. Never gave the wax bullets idea a thought. Also my first thought was to toss them in the scrap brass box and that is where all of them now reside. I was just inquisitive as to other ideas as to why someone would go through the trouble of drilling a large hole in the bottom of the 45acp brass.
  21. Hello All A few days ago I was given a large quantity of grungy 45 acp range brass. After running it through the wet media tumbler to make it nice and pretty I noticed a 'bunch' of the brass had the primer flash hole drilled out to something like 1/8". Does anybody have any idea what the purpose of this is ?? I have reloaded quite a bit of once fired 45acp and never encountered this before. thanks for anyone's answer.
  22. Hi All . . . . I have a problem for some of you machinists/smiths. A few months ago I ordered a new IAC 97 scattergun. It was a great gun right out of the box. As a matter of fact I used it so much over the past couple of months that I now find the left extractor now needs replacement. I was told informed that the left extractor for the Winchester 97 was a duplicate replacement for the IAC 97. That was easy to order. A couple of weeks ago I replaced the left extractor on my Winchester. The extractor pin was easy to move down its channel for extractor replacement. I am now attempting to replace the left extractor on the IAC 97 but am having a dickens of a time removing the pin. No matter how hard I thump on the pin it will NOT budge. I even built a jig out of maple to hold the bolt so it would not move when I was thumping on the pin. That little pin could have been welded in by some happy go lucky Chinese fella at the plant for all I know. It doesn't look like it but it sure seems that way !! Now I am at a loss. Is my only option left to drill out the pin and hope I can find a replacement pin (where)?? If I drill out the pin would a 1/16" carbide bit do the trick so the pin could be driven out or does the bit need to be bigger? Any help anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated. Respectfully submitted, J.J. High Plains Drifters Roop County Cowboys Fernley NV
  23. Tully - Joe First of all thank you for your responses. Yesterday, I figured out what the problem was. I took the scattergun (Norinco 97) over to my friend and mentor's place (Deadeye Dick) and we spent an entire afternoon working on a couple of Chinese 97's. By the way, Deadeye HATES working on Chinese 97's. From my old US Coast Guard days, I thought I knew every bad word that existed - I was wrong . . . . Well - getting back to my original problem. What we found out was that the Ejection Pin 'T' bottom had broken in half. The bottom middle half of the 'T' had been broken and was still in the 97's frame. After come careful looking with magnifying glasses, we found where the remaining piece had been pressed into the frame. The Chinese 97 and the Winchester 97 both take the same part. After we found where the pin came through the frame, the bottom half of the 'T' was punched through the frame leaving a hole for the new part to be pressed in. It fit quite tightly and will not fall out until it again brakes at some future date. After a little bit of filing, reassembling, working the action, disassembling, filing, reassembling, etc, etc (I suspect you-all get the picture) the Chinese 97 again preforms flawlessly. Thanks everyone for reading and the thoughts you may have had. Perhaps in 15 or 20 years I also may know just about everything there is to know on 97's, but I doubt it. J.J.
  24. Tully Thanks for the inquiry/response. I actually found the part in question on the following web page: http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm (not sure if this like works automatically, probably have to cut/paste) It is listed as #76 on the Winchester 97 Parts Diagram on Marauders Web page. It is just a stinky little part that you would not normally notice. It is on the left inside side of frame and located right smack dab behind the Extractor Spring. I would have thought that little sucker was a piece of the frame. I don't think the entire part is over 2.5 MM long, about 1 MM deep. You would not even know unless you went in there and started to poke around a bit. I can not imagine how I noticed that it was just hanging there. I was cleaning the inside with q-tips, carb. cleaner, and gun cleaner when I noticed it turned sideways. Any help is greatly appreciated. J.J.
  25. Hello Again I know one of you guys that reads this knows the answer to this question. Last night I was cleaning my 97. Now this is a process that does not happen very often. Actually, when it was dissembled I was surprised that it actually worked after looking at all the 'gunk' in the mechanisms. So here is the question with descriptions to the best of my abilities: I took off the ejector spring and screw and cleaned the area around their associated holes. Much to my surprise another little piece right behind the ejector spring fell off. Since I had never seen this little part before so I had to go look to see what it was called. On the Winchester Parts Schematic the little part that fell off is entitled as the 'Ejector Pin'. I cleaned the area and attempted to put the 'Ejector Pin' back in the frame, but as loose at it fits in its little hole there on that slide, I don't believe it is going to stay upon reassembly. I also suspect it is something that in needed for the 97 to function properly. I was really surprised that it had not fallen out earlier. The real question here is when placing the Ejector Pin back into the frame should it be glued/welded or what (a smidgen of JB Weld)? Press fitting it back into its place without something to hold it there is not going to do the trick. Any thoughts/help/suggestions here from you guys who know much more of this stuff and me would be greatly appreciated. thanks a bunch - J.J. Minden NV
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