Happy Jack

The Committee met at the SHOT show and discussed several items. We also discussed the meeting with the Ambassadors held at the Convention in TX. Several items concerning the new CAS rules and how they will relate to WBAS rules are still under consideration. Some changes will be made to the WBAS rules because of the CAS changes but NOT immediately. One item that has been settled is the SENIOR category for WBAS matches. The following had been decided: The AGE for the Senior category is 65. (If you have already sent out registration for your State Match for 2015 and placed the Senior age at 60 you may use that age this year) In order to offer a Senior category (SMM, SMT, SLM,SLT) you MUST have ten(10) shooters in the Parent category (MM,MT,LM,LT) and at least five(5) in the corresponding Senior category. Example: 18 shooters total, 10 sign up for SMM, 8 in MM. You CANNOT have SMM because only 8 are left in MM. Example: 18 shooters total, 4 sign up for SMM, 14 in MM. You CANNOT have SMM because only 4 are in SMM. We discussed this with the Wild Bunch members at SHOT and they agee with this policy. This procedure WILL be in place for ALL WBAS Sanctioned events. (State matches and above) The entry forms for EOT 2015 have not been sent out and the SENIOR categories WILL be offered in Wild Bunch this year. Sadly, we probably won't have the necessary numbers to offer all 8 possible categories at EOT but we will offer all those that meet the minimum registration numbers. For CAS at EOT there must be 7 to offer the category, but since our overall numbers are less SASS has agreed to honor the WBAS Senior categories with only 5 shooters.

Definitely ILLEGAL on a traditional pistol. Probably illegal on a modern pistol, but not sure until we discuss it. IF it is for a non WBAS competition pistol, looks pretty interestin.

The WR Wild Bunch match will be held according the the CURRENT WBAS rules. Versions can be downloaded from this site.

I could not attend the Convention this year but Evil and Bubba are there meeting with the Ambassadors. It has been brought to our attention that there have been some SDQ's given incorrectly in relation to the Model 12 safety procedure. They will be discussed at the Convention with the Ambassadors to insure that correct information is given during the RO classes, but I wanted to give the general membership the same information. The Model 12 Safety Procedure rule: Under the direct supervision of the TO/CRO on the firing line they must point the muzzle in a safe direction and pull the trigger. If the hammer falls, SDQ. Failure to follow this procedure is a SDQ. It is the shooter's responsibility to ensure this procedure in followed before beginning the course of fire. (WBAS Shooters Handbook pages 12 and 20) Related definition: Course of fire: once the shooter has signified "ready", from the beep of the timer to the last shot fired. (WBAS Shooters Handbook page 27) A SDQ is a MAJOR penalty and often determines the outcome of a match. We do not want them given incorrectly. Some shooters are given SDQ's if they bring the SG to the line, lay it down and then go place their rifle, etc. They are given the SDQ as soon as the SG leaves their hands. That is WRONG. The rule clearly states that the Model 12 must be shown safe "before beginning the course of fire". Some shooters are given SDQ's because they didn't VERBALIZE something like "I have a model 12" before showing the safety procedure. That is WRONG. While that is common and makes it easy to be sure the TO is "directly supervising" there is NOTHING in the rule requiring the shooter to say anything. They only have to be sure the TO is directly supervising while they perform the safety procedure. As often happens in CAS people are reading things into the rule that are not there. Enforce the rule AS WRITTEN and those two serious miscalls will go away. Again, thank you for participating in WBAS and Good Shooting!!!

If WBT can't help I doubt anyone on this wire could help. Maybe Jack First in SD?? You might also try contacting Wayne Novak (Novak sights) he has thousands of Colt parts from over the years. He may or may not have what you want and he might not be interested in selling it if he does. Just a shot in the dark.

I've been busy and didn't look this over carefully until this morning. I remember working with Tex to update the books in August, but I didn't see the final draft he posted. THERE IS A MISTAKE ON THE POCKET RO CARD. While you can correct the restaged EMPTY pistol before firing the next firearm, you CANNOT at this time correct a pistol restaged containing a magazine with live rounds. The next update to the rule books in Jan. 2015 will contain the correction.

This is incredably sad news. Not really unexpected, but very sad nevertheless. He was the strongest supporter of WBAS on the Wild Bunch. He even shot our matches at Founder's Ranch and passed on shooting the Cowboy matches. He will be greatly missed.

There was long and frequent discussion about the "trigger finger" rule in WBAS. As you know in CAS moving, reloading and clearing malfunctioning firearms WITH you trigger finger in the trigger guard is a No Call. It is a SDQ or MDQ in all other shooting sports. We decided to "split the difference" in WBAS. It is still the most frequent violation we see during a match. That is the reason for the "Finger" warning we give the first time at a match.

The majority of WBAS matches I attend we don't have a LT Officer.

In my considerable experience with Colt 1911's they are NOT noted for their accuracy out of the box. They shoot fine, and some shoot very accurately, but accuracy is not their strong point. If you want accuracy buy Les Baer, if you want beauty buy Ed Brown, if you want reliability and good accuracy buy Wilson. If you want reasonable accuracy and reliability try Kimber or Springfiend custom shop. (you asked) ;)

As a former dealer in collectable 1911's I can say that NO Colt 1911 made in the last 100 years is collectable and worth more than what someone is willing to pay for it. If you have a newer Colt just shoot it. As for who makes a good 1911?? Lots of people. I like Kimber, Springfield and S & W custom shop ones and obviously the expensive stuff from Le Baer, Wilson, etc. etc. Almost any new manufaxcture 1911 will work for our game. Some are obviously better than others but many have good luck with guns from the Armscor, Ruger, etc.

IF it covers at least 2 inches of the magazine it is legal. I can't tell from the photo how deep the pouches are.

After seeing how successful we have been in WBAS without having someone other than the shooter handling their firearms the latest recommendations from the CAS RO Committee is to NOT use an expedititor. We have found that no time is saved using one. By the time the misses and other possible penalties are handled, targets are reset, etc. no time is saved using one and without one possible problems are avoided. There are no plans to ever change the policy.

I don't know. Contact Evil Roy on his personal email. He rarely monitors the SASS wires. He is the MD and might be able to get one of the Ambassadors to teach one if there is much interest. I know several of them will be there.

Branchwater, my mistake. ANY target hit is a miss. I was typing fast and thinking about the procedural rule, but as soon as the round is fired the one procedural per stage has already occurred.

JFN has posted the rule. It is clear. It is also in agreement with the rule in CAS. There are no plans to change or reword the existing rule. Overloaded rounds that are fired are treated as Illegal Ammunition". As has been recommended before IF you have extra rounds in a firearm after the shooting string is completed, completely clear the firearm before it leaves your hand. If you DO decide to fire them try NOT to hit a correct type target. Fire them safely downrange into the berm,etc. and accept the penalty.

There is NO plans to EVER add a bunch of categories in Wild Bunch. Maybe a Senior category (65 and up) if there are enough participants to warrent it at large matches. Other than that NO NEW CATEGORIES !!!!

I will let this go for awhile IF it gets back on topic. Otherwise I think it has run its course. We will NOT tolerate the type of uncivil discourse that goes on on the SASS wire. All involved think about what you are about to say before furthering this thread. I have no problem with the area of discussion about WBAS and CAS matches being together or not, but that is the topic under discussion. NOT who might be posting.

In the early days of Wild Bunch shooting some clubs tried having a "Wild Bunch posse" running in conjunction with the CAS match. It was NOT successful. The WBAS shooters didn't like it and the CAS shooters didn't like it. The two sports are too different. Many reasons for the failure to run the two sports simultaneously have already been listed.

I agree with Boggus. D One way to get a MDQ this way without doing really bad things is the "progressive penalty" for shooting out of category.

Joe, that definition is an artifact from past use when describing the time at which a shooter could no longer go back and "fix" a MSV. We strive as much as possible to keep the definitions aligned between CAS and WBAS. It helps decrease confusion and incorrect calls. Even though it isn't currently used, and I understand your point, I'm not sure it is a bad thing to keep it, but there MIGHT be a problem occur if we delete it. Will give it some thought. One of the problems with the effort to keep definitions aligned between CAS and WBAS is that some of their definitions that we have chosen to use are not quite what we would like. For example: firing line, course of fire, and engaged, are defined a bit differently than I would like, but I can accept them. With the overlap between shooters in both sports, having different definitions of common things leads to confusion and possible "lawyering" on the firing line. Things we are trying to avoid.

Danawr, Sutter Lawman is the Ambassador for your area. He handles the WBAS RO classes for your area. mike@sutterlawman.com

JFN has touched on the question. I didn't delve completely into it as I only answered your first inquiry. The rule on page 11 is there as a SPECIFIC exception to the open and empty of live ammunition rule ONLY when a split suquence is required during the stage. They used to somewhat common but aren't anymore. As JFN mentioned that are basically a penalty trap and are HIGHLY discouraged in WBAS. I have never seen one at a Sanctioned match but local clubs sometimes do strange things and a rule must be in place if a course of fire actually requires a split rifle or SG engagement. In the WBAS MD guide we STRONGLY encourage stage writers to state in the stage description that IF there is a split engagement that the shooter can only load the number of rounds required for the initial portion at the loading table. That decreases the likelyhood that a long gun will be restaged for further use while still containing live rounds.

It is a Minor Safety Violation. SHB page 11 and penalty overview page 19 There is no penalty for overloading a long gun but it must be empty of live ammunition in order to leave the shooters hands during the course of fire. Note, IF it is the last gun used and you can figure out how to keep it in your hand with the action open or closed on a fired round with the muzzle safely downrange while clearing your 1911 and can make it to the ULT safely and clear it before it leaves your hand it would be a NO CALL. Once it leaves your hand it is a MSV if not empty of live ammunition.

There are only a few changes. No need to print out the whole books again if you can choose pages. In the Shooters Handbook: A couple of mispellings were fixed and A clarification to the "restaging long guns" in the stage conventions section. Before it only mentioned rifles. Now fixed. Also the rules for the BAMrifle Match rifles were added to the side match section. Fixed the pocket RO card in the RO manual to allow for fixing a restaged pistol with the slide forward until next firearm is fired. In the Match Directors guide added the info about the BAMM. Maybe something else I can't remember, but those are the highlights.