Garrison Joe

Per your first question. (After waiting a couple of days to see if a rules committee person wanted to run with this football) I believe the WB RO committee have settled on the "once the pistol leaves your hand" you may no longer fix a problem with it. This has wavered back and forth a little recently, which is probably why the pocket card is out of step with the Shooter's Handbook. Perhaps a rules committee member can comment, especially if I'm wrong about the current state of the rules.

Per your second question. You have pulled out two references that are specific SDQ penalties. There are more. The general pistol restaging rules that cover this situation are in the Range Operations section: Was slide locked open? No - It was probably jammed partially closed on the three-point jam. Was the magazine empty or removed? No - There was a cartridge still partially in the magazine. So, either of these two conditions would have made it a SDQ penalty to restage the pistol without declaring a malfunction. Both conditions - well, you get the penalty for sure. The rule book makes an attempt to point out two of a large number of possible reasons the gun can not be safe to be staged. It can't point out all the reasons and be brief. So, it's better to use the rule of what IS safe to do, and declare all the rest unsafe, as the Range Operations rule does. SDQ. A cartridge jammed in a three-point configuration is NOT "in the chamber". However, a jam where the cartridge is neither chambered, nor still partly in the magazine, can occur. A stovepipe is one. A "double feed" jam could be another. And the three-point jam is what you saw (had the rim cleared the magazine lips). All of these jams still result in a "loaded gun" that cannot safely be put down as it is. To prevent that penalty, either clear the jam and lock slide back, or declare a malfunction and ground the gun safely (pointing down range either way). It is more important for the shooter to know the condition of his guns in Wild Bunch than it is in cowboy shooting.

I find more problems when I run Model 12s really hard. IMHO, they do best when run smoothly and just firmly. Don't panic - run one like you are just a firm master of the mechanism. And just for completeness: At the loading table with a Model 12, you drop the hammer by pulling the trigger. All it takes is close action and pull trigger. Many folks are hanging a scarf or some other indicator from the trigger guard before they head for the line. It's a reminder to both the TO and the shooter that the Model 12 has to be checked at the line that the hammer is down. Take the "M12 indicator" off the gun, show the hammer has already fallen by pulling trigger, stow the indicator in your back pocket or other storage spot. You knew that already, I would venture! Good luck with that lovely hunk of steel and walnut! GJ

ER - Be glad to help anywhere I can. Assign me a job that you are having trouble filling. Good luck and see you there, if not sooner! GJ

Many folks have a Win 94 chambered for 45 Colt. Not a single one has ever reported that is it anything but balky and clunky when you try to run it fast. Surprise! It's a rifle length design that was modified to shoot pistol cartridges. Because it is so clunky, no gunsmiths I know of even want to do much tuning, let along try to figure out how to short stroke it. Would be like hotrodding a Rambler rather than starting with a Camaro or Mustang or deuce coupe. Results wouldn't be all that fast, and it won't look good either. Save that 94 for when you want to shoot Ruger level loads at pigs, bears or cats. Good luck, GJ

Sintered metal - steel alloy powder pressed to rough shape, then heated under pressure almost to melting point to partially weld the grains of powder together. Minor pocks can be seen in the surface on parts that are not well sintered. When those pocks are on the surface of a hammer, for example, I can feel the grating as the trigger is pulled, and the wear is quicker on the parts. That is what my hammer and apparently the sear were made of on an early Armscorp/RIA 1911. Fire control parts are what make up the firing controls - so, hammer, sear, trigger, disconnector, firing pin and retainer plate, some folks include the grip safety, thumb safety and slide release in the fire control category. A failure in any of them puts the gun out of commission and possibly allows it go go full auto. Good luck, GJ

Oh, and I have seen some lousy RIA and other Phillipie guns. When you use parts that are MIM and sintered for fire control, you are asking for fast wear. Good luck, GJ

cachet - reputation cache - a stockpile of supplies Good luck, GJ

I have absolutely no regrets shooting my Colt Series 70s, either the original run from 1973, or a recent return-to-Series 70 run (probably 2009 or so). They both shoot so well for traditional I look to no other factory's line. They are THAT good, and still reasonable. Up over 100K rounds through the old one - finally had an in-match failure, which I fixed in five minutes. In Modern category, you get the luxury of SO much choice. But a Colt or Springfield frame and slide is never a bad place to start. Good luck, GJ

I've seen data showing about 25 FPS higher with a large primer. Not my data, because I won't use the small primer cases. Good luck, GJ

Yep, in fact, the boys out at LASC (Los Angeles Silhouette Club), some of the 'leading' experts on lead bullet shooting, have a hardness - to - chamber pressure chart. For our pressures of about 10,000 to 12,000 PSI in cowboy and Wild Bunch loads, they point out a 8 or 9 Brinnell hardness is just about perfect. That is about a 2% antimony alloy. Half Wheel Weights and half soft lead. I find I agree with them boys. It takes 12,000 PSI, according to this article, http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCBAlloyObturation.htm to make a bullet of 8 Brinnell hardness seal the bore. And the harder the alloy, the more pressure it takes. Even on 45 auto slugs. Too hard, and the hot gases blow by the slug and I get leading right in the throat of the barrel. Haven't yet cast any slugs too soft to shoot well out of the 1911. Keep going to a softer alloy every time I cast a batch. Good luck, GJ

Crazy Mingo - The Remington R1 would be a great pistol for Traditional WB. Several folks are shooting them. The relieving of the ejection port is allowed. As is any coating/painting you want to do. If I remember right, Rem's come with dots on the sights - which should be covered over or blacked out to give a uniform single-color sight surface. 90% of problems getting your pistol running right come from the ammo. The other 90% of problems come from poor quality magazines. Make sure you have those right (have other shooters test them if you have questions about either) before you have any further frustration with shooting WB. And finally, the remaining 90% of problems come from trying to operate the pistol without a firm grip and a keen sense of mastery of it's workings. Good luck, and WELCOME to WB! YeeHaw, GJ

Pretty typical for TiteGroup powder in a mid range or warmer load. Once you get that 30% nitroglycerin burning, it really goes, and does so with lots of heat generated, a loud report, and generally great accuracy. Small Standard Deviations are not all there is to accuracy, but they sure do not hurt the group size! Good luck, GJ

The rules are unfortunately not written well in this area. As they stand, illegal rounds fired are counted as misses only if they are hits on the correct target type. It would be MUCH simpler if the rules just said - "All illegal rounds fired are counted as misses." (unless some more severe penalty is earned such as hitting a non-expendable prop or hitting close to an individual). This would be in addition to the P for firing illegal ammo. As it is, the rules have a loophole that allows extra ammo to be dumped safely down range as long as you are not hitting the correct type of target. Good luck, GJ

Couple of tomato stakes, too, out of 02 series Norincos. ;D Just glad that Coyote Cap taught them how to improve their version through the years.

PG - There really is a major technical and safety reason that folks in the cowboy game don't encourage Wild Bunch style shooting at their matches - it's that shooting a 1911 and a fully-stoked hammerless pump shotgun takes extra rules that the cowboy handbooks don't cover, and extra training for shooters, TOs and other safety officers. The cowboy folks know that getting the extra rules in place past the existing Territorial Governors group and the Wild Bunch leadership would be a tough job, and getting enough of the cowboy safety officer community trained would be even more work. Some have safety concerns that they would not understand coaching shooters through solutions to jammed guns. Some have a strong aversion to any semi-auto pistol. Requiring that they open up cowboy matches to WB shooting is the ultimate in selfishness. Standing up a separate but equal WB structure is a hard exercise, but it has been pretty well done, and I heartily salute all our WB folks who have worked for 5 years to make happen what we have now. They have been: Not tossing out excuses, not dodging issues, not sticking their heads in the sand. But making proactive, positive progress toward one more great shooting venue. Sorry that does not satisfy you. Sorry that you have felt the need to stir the pot in both forums. Sorry you could not hear what several of us have said about this, and that you want to slam anyone who disagrees with you. But I am sorry the most that you feel the need or "privilege" to post rudely in reply to one of our dearest ladies in the game, who works very hard moderating both forums, and has a tremendous history here of helping hundreds of folks. :( Allie Mo - thanks go to you for your great reservoir of patience! Good bye. GJ

Mod 12s are considerably improved in the internals. Better lockup, better shell control while feeding, better ejection. Weaker firing pin, more complex takedown if completely tearing it apart. The Mod 12 is normally much smoother. I have shot both. Have actually gone back to the 97, and Chinese guns at that, because I can run them faster without the occasional hangup. Once you have learnt to run a 97 "like you stole it," it's hard to go back to the smooth finesse that a Model 12 seems to want. A Model 12 is no more a hammerless 97 than a 707 was a propless DC3. Both were great airplanes and both are great shotguns! Good luck, GJ

Yep, Yep. Proper relieving of the pinch point between the grip safety and the hammer tip has always made it possible to stop pinching the web of the hand. Fixed four 1911s in that manner, couple of Colts, an RIA and a Springer.

Because WB is not just SASS with a different handgun. Because WB ticks off some cowboy shooters when they see it shot, hear about it being shot, or have it shot on their own posse. Because WB uses different rules and that might make some shooters' brains explode. Because there would be too much brass to have to shag. Because folks would forget to check the model 12. Because a WB shooter might whoop up on them and take overall. Because the targets would be too close and too large for a WB shooter. Because there would not be enough targets to be shot. Because no one would pick up and return empty magazines. Because someone might pick up a fired gun other than the shooter. Pick any number of your choices from the reasons above and you might have a start. ;D Besides, one meaning of matriculation is enrollment and it would not be much like going back to school to shoot WB in a Cowboy match. :) ;) :D ;D :o Really, though, WB is significantly different and would be real limited at a Cowboy shoot. I like the additional venue to shoot at, with WB being separate, being tougher stages, requiring more accuracy and more ability to handle recoil. Good luck, GJ

Here's a simple suggestion to remove from the WB Shooter's Handbook a definition that is not used, and is defined in a very circular manner (meaning it refers to other rules in a vague manner). The next time there is some rules editing being done would be soon enough. Nowhere in the Shooters Handbook is the phrase "committed to a firearm" actually used. (Maybe it was in an early version; I don't remember.) The phrase "committed to the stage" is well defined and used several times in the rules. So, can we please take out the unused definition "committed to a firearm," before it gets confused with the "committed to the stage" wording? Having that definition in there seems to imply there is some reason to be watching for when the shooter has committed to use a firearm. This is just confusing and unneeded. Thanks, GJ

Yep, Wild Bunch generally is a "reloading required" sport. No one really makes excellent ammo, although there are a couple of adequate ammo sources. Powder River has ammo that was spec'd out by Evil Roy. There have been generally good reports about it, after early lots were a little light to meet Power Factor. http://www.powderrivercartridge.com/Cowboy-Action-Ammo-s/28.htm Good luck, GJ

Last round failure to strip the cartridge from the mag is a pretty common failure. Usual cause for that is a weak mag spring. As with most other coil springs in a 1911, the correct spring pressure is key to smooth and reliable operation of the pistol. For loaded service magazines, I see recommendations to unload and leave unloaded (for several days) at least every few months. Many police departments are reported to have the officer use the loaded service mags and ammo for routine range time, then leave them unloaded for a while. The better the quality of springs in the magazines, the less need I would perceive to periodically unload the mag. If you are talking about our game, I always empty mags at end of the match and leave empty until next match. Good luck, GJ

I'll bring an extra 100 rounds of lead ammo for 8x57 Mauser, plus the rifle. See you BAMM'ers there! Good luck, GJ

Gunsite? With the founder looking like this for years and years? http://www.frfrogspad.com/hat.jpg 8) But, then again, there's this: Good luck, GJ

Yes, the Cimarron guns are imported from Armscorp (Philippines). The quality of the Armscorp guns has been getting better quickly. Some important internal fire control parts are sintered metal (MIM), which I don't like to depend upon to hold a good action job. Depends upon how much you plan to shoot it, and how particular you are with great accuracy and reliability, versus how low the price is. All those are important, but personal, choices. I doubt the OP's criteria match mine. My criteria has led me to not want to shoot an Armscorp gun in competition. And yes, I have (an early) one (labeled as Rock Island Armory). Good luck, GJ