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Since i was there at the beginnings of SASS, if not cowboy action itself... I'll let you in on a little, well-known fact at the time. The founders of SASS, aka the "Wild Bunch", were tired of the equipment race that had inundated IPSC. One of their stated goals was not to let Cowboy Action become the equipment race IPSC had become. Short stroked rifles became the norm before they were recognized as such. Most of the rules in cowboy action are in place because someone over stepped the bounds of good sportsmanship. I.e., "if it ain't against the rule, I can do it." And while you say I am being dishonest by preferring something that is disliked by someone else, I would say, please look in the mirror. We just happen to be looking at the issue from opposite sides. I happen to like the game as it was originally governed. 45ACP, .40+ caliber for the rifles... and while I detest the 1897, I didn't moan and cry about having to buy one to play the game. And it wasn't because I dislike pump shotguns... I happen to absolutely love my Remington 870 Riot gun, skeet gun & Wingmaster. But, if I had whined and cried about not being able to use it, and went about claiming it should be allowed 'cause I could use it in 3-Gun... that would be disingenuous. Instead, I went out and bought a couple, 3. When the mdl 12 was approved, I thought, let me give this a whirl and bought one. Mine must not be the best example, as... shhh... I prefer the '97. Let us simply agree to disagree on the base pad issue. If you want to lobby the TG's about changing that , keep it out of the Traditional categories. And lest you think I'm simply anti-base pad, I had to remove several rubber base pads from magazines so they'd comply with the rule at the time... My EDC is a Combat Commander, with its own set of magazines which kept those same ~¼" rubber base pads I removed magazines destined for WB use. I fully recognize their utility and aid to recharging the pistol. But... WB ain't practice for a life n' death encounter. It's a game. As a former sworn peace officer, I carried several different firearms in that career, adapting to them and adapting them to my preferences. However, gun games are not that. Each gun game has its own set of distinctive rules and norms... as well they should, otherwise they become simply mundane... My 3-Gun 1911 has a beavertail, extended thumb safety, slide release and a compensator, along with a stash of 8 round magazines with base pads of various sizes and contours. Nothing in WB precludes an IPSC shooter from participation, simply gives they a reason to buy another gun and develop additional skills. Nothing about trigger time in any gun sport is wasted in another gun sport. God bless.

You know guys, I'm not a moderator on this forum anymore but I think this thread has run it's course. 3 pages to answer a simple question is enough. It has turned into an opinion piece. How about tucking your opinions aside and go shoot??

I don't shoot WB any longer. Not because of any dispute with the rules, but because matches are not convenient to me. So I shoot Historic 3 Gun. But, shoot consistent with SASS rules, as nothing in H3G sez I can't. Although I do happen to like starting a stage in condition one. All of my magazines have welded flat baseplates, except one, a stainless Kim-Pro which has a flat removeable baseplate. But, then again, I learned to manipulate a 1911 during VN, using issue guns and GI magazines. Frankly, if you need to rely on a baseplate pad, whether it's leather, plastic, aluminum, steel, rubber or banana peels, you're relying on a crutch. Learn to seat a flat plate magazine. Tune your magazines to seat properly in your 1911 and your need for a extended pad goes away. Sloppy magazine control demands the use of a pad. By demanding pads, you're admitting to being a sloppy magazine handler. Much like the Frontiersman category in SASS cowboy matches... WB was never intended to be as "easy" as shooting a 1911 in other sports. Why should it be? What would be the draw for truly dedicated 1911 fans. If you enjoy shooting other gun games with a 1911 where the use of a basepad is allowed, mastering magazine control without one will not hurt your performance in those other games. Frankly, I don't recall any of you relatively new folks here when the fight was to end the "cowboy w/a 1911" era of 5 round maximums in magazines. Using what is legal in another shooting sport to justify your stance on what you think should be legal in SASS WB is disingenuous at best, at worst, whiney, cry-baby bull spit. Go ahead, take the high road, being disengenuos. Wild Bunch is based on a movie released in 1969, depicting events in 1913... Dig up a still of a 1911 with a base pad in that movie, then maybe your request has some merit... but be advised, it has the same chance as getting Broomhandle approved. But, maybe I overstep?

NOT! Read this excerpt from Ed. 1 of the Wild Bunch Shooter's Handbook: (listed under both Traditional & Modern requirements. In Sept of 2013 this was amended to read: Are ya pickin' up on a trend here? That wording remained in place until 2022. 13 years after the initial rules were established. Emphasis added... Frankly, be glad that you're now allowed a 1/4" of a "natural" material as a base pad.

One thing that JM Browning noted early in the life of the 1911 was that putting a small dimple in the flat follower of the magazine, dimple round side upwards, was enough of an improvement to retaining the LAST round inside the magazine to prevent it squirting out with recoil. Colt mags ever since have carried that dimple. My Tripp mags also have a small dimple to help retain last round. Maybe it's something worth duplicating? I have at times used other brands of mags than Colt and Tripp. I found myself adding Tripp followers and springs to my Wilson and Chip McCormick mags because they ran better with the non-diving follower and the stronger springs. At this point, Tripps are what I shoot with, and never have had a "loose last round" problem. (Nor any broken base plate welds, either.) good luck, GJ

I don't really care for stainless but the mags I'm using now are stainless because that's what was available. It's really just a vanity thing, I don't think either material is superior or works better; stainless is perhaps easier to keep clean because you can see when it's dirty. I don't think you'll see a difference in the feed lips holding up on stainless vs. regular steel, the heat treat probably matters more with regard to that. I have never really had a problem with my 1911 mags holding up, I did wear out a set of 9mm mags over a 10+ year period but I shot many thousands of rounds through them in that time. 45 mags have generally been good for me although after about 2012, I stopped shooting 45 completely except for wild bunch now. I have a set of Wilson Combat mags for WB and a set of Tripps. Both work in my gun, but I like that the Tripps have feed lips that hold the round for longer as the slide cycles, which is why I switched to them. I know some prefer other mags and I hope to try some others eventually. In USPSA, I used Chip McCormick mags from about 2004-2008, then I switched to Tripp Research mags and I have been using those since. When I started WB I bought a set of Wilsons because they were on sale and this year, after comparing them to my USPSA 45 mags that I have had forever, I got a set of GI style Tripps for WB and shot two matches with them over the last two months. My gun feeds with both but I think my gun feeds better with the Tripps because they release further forward. I loaned my gun and mags to another shooter last month and he shot the Wilsons and I shot the Tripps just so we didn't have to trade mags back and forth; neither of us had any gun related issues. I have not had a whole lot of problems with feed lip tuning in 1911s nor having them go out of spec, contrast that with 2011 mags that have a lot of problems feeding and mag tuning is required. Because of that, I don't know the feed lip dimensions that are ideal for 45 Auto, I haven't moved mine. In your case I'd measure all your mags at the front and back of the feed lips and set the dimensions, to start, at the smallest numbers you see among your mags as long as that one fed reliably. I bet you find that a few of your mags are a little wider at the front and release earlier, which in my experience, all my Wilson mags release earlier than I'd like, not because they are bent but because it's part of their design to have shorter feed lips than my other mags. If your tightest mag feeds reliably, just set them all to that number. You'll know right away if they are too tight because the round will hit the feed ramp too low and it may cause feeding issues. That's why I don't recommend going any tighter than that, just set them to exactly 1x your tightest mag and test fire. Tripp calls the situation you're experiencing "mag squirt" and some very minor adjustment to your mags will likely restore normal functioning for a long time. Write down the numbers that work and check them once a year and you'll be good.

Another great match!! A big thank you to all the Circle K folks who put in the hard work to make this event what it is.

Now guys, try to get over your egos and stick to the issues. I don't know you, EL Chapo, but I have known G Joe for at least 20 years. He speaks from many years of 1911 knowledge. I don't always agree with his approach to things, but he really knows his stuff. I know my way around a 1911 pretty well also. I was one of the big time dealers in 1911's from 1970 until 2014. I have "fixed' hundreds of them with small issues to big ones. I have probably handled/fixed more 1911s than most active shooters put together will ever see. It wasn't unusual for me to deal with well over a thousand a year in busy times. I always had 500+ in inventory. So just remember that different people may disagree about small issues but don't let this wire get like the SASS wire. We kept it civil for years and I for one would like it to remain so. I feel that the current most knowledgable person in SASS/Wild Bunch about current issues is Boggus Deal. He builds 1911's from a block of steel and knows how to fix anything. I don't blame him for not getting into discussions like this, he is too busy building/fixing guns to bother. Happy Shooting.

Why should it be? Because that's the only way we're going to save Wild Bunch from dying. Considering SASS was born out of IPSC and founded by IPSC shooters, I think "disingenuous" is a bit of a stretch. That's a pretty despicable way to refer to someone who simply has a different preference than you. There is nothing fundamentally dishonest about preferring something other than what you prefer. There were no beavertails, bomar sights, ambidextrous thumb safeties, dovetail sights, frontstrap checkering, and a laundry list of other permitted modern 1911 features in 1913 nor in the Wild Bunch film. To suggest that is the standard, is, in a word, disingenuous. We have a modern category that is obviously not limited to what is in the film or what existed in 1913. This one small rule difference isn't going to be made different by that. Until you dig up an example of a 1911 with any of these features in the movie, I'll regard your opinion as simply uninformed about what we're doing at Wild Bunch matches, because plenty goes on there that is not in the film. I really hope someday we can apply some common sense for the rules for this game. We are doing ourselves a massive disservice by not trying to compete with other shooting sports, especially because the number of people who want to compete with any iron sight pistol drops more and more every day. The Single Stack division is, at present, about 5% of USPSA. If we can't all get along, we might find ourselves with a world that has neither one. A lot of CAS shooters don't care for wild bunch and a lot of match directors won't give us equal recognition. If we can't ally with other SASS shooters nor other shooters from other 1911 shooting sports, what do we have left? I think I know the answer to that.

What does "floating around in the breach" mean? It is not uncommon for 1911s to lock back with one round in the magazine, and for that, you may have to adjust the fit of your slide stop to the magazines you're using if that's happening. If your feed lips are out of spec, it's also not uncommon for a round to "squirt" out of the top of the magazine sometimes, although that is more common with 9mm magazines than 45. What exactly is it doing? If I understand your symptom correctly, it sounds like a feed lip problem to me. The easiest way to diagnose is to identify the problem magazines and compare feed lip dimensions.

I don't know how Ruger shop "repaired" the ejector retaining pin without just putting a new one in. Straightening one or filing off burrs on one at the repair shop would be more expensive than a new pin that costs Ruger almost nothing. Just about the same story with the ejector itself. They must have replaced barrel due to a manufacturing defect. If they found damage from reloads, I expect you would have been charged. Their shooter-unfriendly "No Reloads" policy has been around for several decades, and routinely ignored. good luck, GJ

Results from this weekends NYS Championship. Congratulations to the NYS champs, The Outlaw Duelin’ Dawn and @Montague Kid Top overall Prickly Pear and James Samuel Pike 2026 Muster at Fort Misery .pdf

Procedural for firing more rounds than required by the stage instructions.

What I'd really like for you to do is stop posting AI-edited nonsense instead of sharing your actual experience, you know, kinda like everyone else who posted in this thread, including me.