El Chapo

If they let me have a magazine with a slide off basepad, I'll make it out of bamboo if they want.

They don't have to be plastic. My dawsons are aluminum. If you didn't know what you were looking for, you wouldn't even notice them if they had a sheet of leather over them. There were no beavertails, Bomars, skeletonized hammers, dovetail sights, and a whole list of other things in 1913. It's just this one issue WBAS seems to have a hangup with.

I am lobbying to have them changed. TGs read this forum. Major calibers just have to be larger than .400. Minor calibers have to be larger than .355. You are correct about the commonly chosen cartridges. .40 S&W Single Stack mags usually hold 9 rounds, they are simply restricted to 8 in the mag after the start signal if they shoot major, but they can still shoot minor if they want and load 9. I've never seen someone shoot a 38 super but there's no rule prohibiting it. And there's no rule loading 185 grain bullets to 126 pf and running a .45 in minor if you want. Unlike us, they check your guns and chrono your ammo, so they don't care. I'm surprised the mix of minor/major has changed so much. When I shot the SS Nats in 2013, the ratio was far more toward the major side. Some people bring both and pick based on the stages; I've done the analysis and it's about 3% for me which isn't worth the mag capacity issue and slide lock reloads for the rest of the stage since the game is almost always 8 round arrays. The one stage at the WSSS where my (fixed) rear sight decided to come loose cost me way more than that, probably over 10 positions in the match results. I came back the next day and shot as clean as I could and a lot of As to try to make up for that! Modern magazines generally don't use a welded baseplate as you call them, most are open on the bottom so that they can be cleaned. Basepads can be used with either, the ones used with the welded style magazines are usually screwed on compared to the ones with open mags where they slide on and are retained by the spring and a plate with a tab. One of the most annoying parts of not being able to use modern magazines is that they are a total pain to clean out on the range, whereas I have brushes in my range bag to clean magazines. In the other divisions, I use mags that can be disassembled without tools and cleaned very quickly between stages. This is a major advantage, especially on ranges that have sand in the bays. CAS shooters probably never think about dust and dirt in feeding devices, but for WBAS, it can cost a shooter a whole stage if it jams your gun up good enough. My USPSA mags are Tripp Research with Dawson aluminum slide on basepads. If they'd change the rules, I could glue the same piece of leather on the bottom for the look and not have to deal with the flush fitting magazines. My hands are tiny compared to some bigger guys, I imagine they're pinching their hands on every reload without a thick basepad all to satisfy some rule with no reason for existing. My beef isn't so much with the material, but the thickness, and the requirement to use GI style welded baseplate mags. Nobody in their right mind is using those in any other kind of competition, they were superseded 30+ years ago by modern magazines. I maintain two sets of ancient mags for my WBAS gun. Right before our annual match here I shot USPSA SS Major with my WB gun, and while I didn't miss my fiber optic sight much (my all black one is the same dimensions), or even my magwell, the magazines are incredibly annoying.

USPSA multi-gun is essentially dead. The serious shooters are using other rules, not a good comparison. For whatever reason, people who enjoy that sport prefer not to use hit factor scoring. I don't know a single person who is shooting USPSA multi gun anymore and I haven't heard anyone talking about it in years, maybe a decade or more. Personally, I abandoned all forms of multi gun shooting outside of SASS a long time ago. I decided that stuffing shotgun shells into a magazine tube was not something I want to be timed doing. By "basepad" I mean something that actually makes a difference, not a 1/4" piece of leather. It helps, but it's not even remotely comparable to a modern magazine with an actual basepad. And just FYI, almost all of the major pf shooters there were shooting a .45 ACP. A few here and there might be shooting 40 S&W but it is not popular, I only saw one person doing it. The "Classic .45 ACP" distinction is not a USPSA category and I don't know why that box was even on the application. "Single Stack" is the name of the division, but it is 100% 1911 Single Stacks, no other gun is allowed.

There were 330 shooters that signed up for the match. "Classic .45 ACP" is not a category, I don't know why they put that there. Nobody was shooting anything other than a 1911 at that match (the production match was held the day before, 27 stages in 3 days!) And no, it wasn't a wild bunch match, there has never been a wild bunch match held anywhere that had this number of shooters. Precisely zero were using welded basepad magazines without basepads because they're a pain.

I don't see where I demanded anything. I bought another couple sets of mags and forgot about the issue until a like minded person started this thread to start the conversation. You're the one who decided to come to a thread you don't like and express your distaste. You're just mad because I dared disagree with you. If I could take the SASS people there, I would certainly go and check it out. I have equipment for a lot of games. I don't see how Wild Bunch would be materially altered by letting at least the modern shooters who are allowed to use ambies, adjustable sights, front serrations, beavertails, and pretty much everything else I use on my USPSA gun besides a magwell would be so bummed out about being able to use a magazine with a basepad. I already knocked my front sight off and replaced it and removed my magwell. Maybe not having to buy another set of magazines on top of that wouldn't have been asking for too much?

My Dawson 1911 basepads that I use regularly in USPSA are aluminum, so if that's the concern, that could easily be alleviated. Tripp Cobramags can be ordered with aluminum basepads already installed. If the issue is plastic, the solution to that is simple and already available, and already in use by people in every other shooting sport where 1911s are popular.

You should also show up to a match and I'll show you how to shoot wild bunch, without my modern magazines.

It's a totally legitimate question and suggestion, don't be discouraged. But yeah, anytime you tell people that certain ancient standards should be modernized, it's like you kicked the hornet's nest. with many of these people. This isn't the first time or context where you will see this sort of response. Just search "power factor" or "classic" or "open category" around here and read what resulted when there were minor changes to the rules that changed nothing for the people who were already shooting WB.

Because somehow my opinion would be better than yours if I met your preconceived standard? You're the one hurling insults at someone who dares have a different opinion than you.

That's a very productive comment that really leads the sport forward. That attitude and the unwillingness to change is exactly why there were 320 shooters at a 1911 match just a few miles away from EoT who were not there, even though the match was just a few days after it ended. It is astonishing to me how critical WB shooters are about simple changes to the game that'd make it so much more accessible and enjoyable to others. Making people buy another set of magazines is pointless and accomplishing nothing. What's it to you? Show up to a match and I'll show you how to shoot wild bunch.

Been working on it for years. Unfortunately our game has a LOT of people who have been doing it for a long time who want to leave things as they are. Just search the forum for how angry people were when magazines went from 5 to 7, it was a disaster just like this thread. It's funny you ask that, because the last time I shot Wild Bunch, one of our favorite things to talk about in camp was how stupid (several of) the rules are. It was like a support group. But since you're a SASS member, I'm sure you already know, I am there for the people. It's a good time. The magazine rule is dumb and should have changed a long time ago. Virtually nobody, except the most dedicated purists, shoot 1911s with welded base magazines. The world moved on decades ago.

I expect that you will also be using paper shotgun shells, because there were no plastic ones in 1913. I assume also that your rifle isn't a .38 Special, .357 Magnum, or .45 Colt because there was no such thing as a lever action rifle in any of those cartridges then, either. Common sense should have prevailed a long time ago on the magazines, just like it did for these things.

Right, they do that in wild bunch because we have no other options. Virtually everyone shooting 1911s anywhere else is using a mag with an actual basepad. The Mernicle leather pads are unfortunately not 1/4" thick. I made some of my own, and they aren't either. I wish I had a source for leather that thick, even the full 1/4" feels like it'd be an advantage.

Who is everyone else? Nobody but the most dedicated purists and Wild Bunch shooters are using welded baseplate magazines.

I don't either, but I really wish they would. I'd even be glad to put a leather basepad on top of the plastic for the look. It's just annoying not to have something to seat a mag in a game with reloads on the clock.

I wish. I absolutely hate the mags I have to use for Wild Bunch, but I doubt we'll see that change. I don't even miss my FO front sight or even my magwell as much as I miss my basepads.

That's what I use. I modified the design to get a full firing grip when drawing and sent back the holster you have.

Hundos are absolutely still made, you just have to put in an email notification and wait for them to come in stock. A friend of mine has the Armanov (I think) and if it's the one he has, that thing is a masterpiece, just very expensive.

The Shock Bottle Hundo is what you want for that. Or your barrel.

I don't even think we should be allowing large birdshot. There's no reason and it's more danger because it retains more energy. I don't see how or why that turns into some sort of argument; you're simply reading something that isn't there.

I wanted to know if I was crazy so I asked ChatGPT. Excluding buckshot and non-toxic shot, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of all shotshells sold are 7 1/2 or smaller. I think 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 shells is pretty uncommon. 4 and 6 are not common or widely used outside of hunting. They're entirely banned from clay target fields. That they can be purchased at Wal-Mart doesn't tell me anything. I can buy and load #4 shot at Sportsman's any day of the week. It's never sold out because nobody wants it. If you don't consider that uncommon, choose your own word to describe it. There is not a widespread use for large, lead birdshot other than hunting of upland game large enough to require it, which I do not do, because I am a shooter, not a hunter.

I was responding to the question asked. The maximum size shot allowed on a trap or skeet range is 7 1/2, so I do not keep or load anything bigger than that. Bigger shot, whether it's #6 or #4, is utterly unnecessary and the only reason I can think of that the rules even allow shot that large is that in the 1980s, people used those sizes for duck hunting and so they probably were nowhere near as uncommon as they are today.

I wouldn't be using either one. Clay ranges are limited to 7 1/2 so I don't keep any shot bigger than that and I usually just use #8.

If it was up to me, we'd run a hot range all the time and that wouldn't make me uncomfortable at all. Rules are rules, and if there was a violation of the rules, a penalty should apply. But pretending like we are doing anything to increase safety by dinging the guy for what we saw here isn't adding anything.