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I can also assure you that those volunteers don’t care one whit about those “titles”. They bust their butts for the betterment of the sport.

I've resigned from my role as WBAS Wire admin/moderator (I didn't really do much anyway). Thank you to all the ambassadors who have made and tried to keep this game great. I prefer a competitive, fun, and challenging shooting sport, but it seems Misty is now taking WBAS in a different direction. Looks like EoT 2024 might be my last SASS Wild Bunch™ match.

Well, it is called Wild Bunch ACTION SHOOTING! If I want entertainment, I’ll turn on the movie and watch it. For me the fun is in the challenge. Figuring out how I can shoot a stage to the best of my abilities. What can I do to better myself. I’ve said for years that WBAS isn’t for everyone. Neither is benchrest shooting, NASCAR racing or brain surgery.

You’ve got some good advice here and some poor advice. I’m going to against the grain with a couple things, though. You’ll hear people say “front sight”! Forget it! Your mind should know now how to line up the sights on target. MUCH more important is proper trigger manipulation. You can spend all day lining up the sights perfectly but when you jerk the trigger all that is moot. Dry fire practice and slow fire target practice will help. But everyone flinches to some degree at some point. Controlling it is the key. That’s the only place dummy rounds are handy loaded in the mag. It will show you your flinch. Also, forget “muscle memory”. It’s a fallacy. Your brain tells every muscle what to do, when to do it and how much to do it. Don’t pay attention to where the empty mag falls. Too many people waste too much time making sure they land on the table or carpet. All you want is it out of the gun. As for malfunctions, properly tuned guns with quality ammo and proper mags mitigate malfunctions to practically nil. Also, no need to go to the line with a “Barney” mag. That will be the mag you grab when you need a full mag.

Those whiners will never shoot it but they are the ones that have caused the s@&tshow it is now. They’re the ones that said they would shoot when we went to 7 in the mag, when we went to tactical reloads, when we puts base pads on. And every time we tried to accommodate them, they just come up with another reason not to shoot.

JJ, for years we heard “if you do _______, I’ll shoot Wild Bunch.” 7 rounds in the mag, tactical reloads, base pads, total time(which was forced on us) and you know what? As soon as those rules all went into effect, those same people had another excuse for not shooting… Like I mentioned in my previous post that was pulled from above, those same people are already making excuses as to why they still won’t shoot Wild Bunch…

I'm planning on it. I'm guessing the places I like to travel to and shoot the most will keep doing what they've been doing, so I'm not worried about finding great matches to shoot. It seems like some folks really do want bigger closer targets and simpler sequences, and that's fine, but it's those qualities that make CAS boring for me, so I don't shoot it much any more. If sanctioned WBAS matches are moving in that direction, those aren't matches I'll return to. I have no issue with Misty pandering to her members in an effort to make money -- it's a business after all. However, it does seem kind of dirty how she has treated the volunteers who have done so much work to make WBAS what it is (or was). I'm not much of a leader, but I'm an OK soldier, and I'll be glad to support those ambassadors and other volunteers who want to keep building and shooting a game like yesterday's Wild Bunch.

I think all my competition needs to use them.😊 JFN

Look what a good friend surprised me with yesterday at our monthly WB match in the carpark whilst Jenorado and I were unpacking our cart. A hand made, lined with tanned kangaroo skin, customised with a tooled bear, 1911 holster for my SR Ruger which up unto yesterday I had been making do using my single action holster. Thank you Rusty for handcrafting this for me, you bowled me over with this kind and generous gift yesterday 🥰

I am officially retired from Wild Buch management BUT I can tell you for the first 10 years of real Wild Bunch this question of "Shooters Choice " never was even thought about or considered. If you had a failure to fire the 1911 for any reason, you just cleared the gun, put in another magazine and continued where you were. Everyone shooting would do as Eyesa asked. Fix the gun and proceed to avoid penalties and hopefully misses. Aparently those days are past. Very sad in my opinion.

Dang, sounds like a great match. I almost wish I had shot it. Oh well.

Like Boggus, I have used springs from many suppliers, but recently have gone with a lot of Springco. We are lucky to have Boggus to take care of a lot of problems with Wild Bunch guns. With the loss of Bodie and Goatneck in recent years he is one of the few who specializes in Wild Bunch guns. He is VERY good with them.

I did not find pistol and shotgun targets at 3-5yds fun, and I don't feel the drive down from Tucson was worth it for a match like that. I still like to shoot some local matches to support the folks around here that put them on, but this mindset of bringing all the targets in that close has got to go. It's not safe, and it's not fun. No shade to Zona -- he puts on quality, well thought-out matches, but let's put the targets out further.

For shotgun makeups?😆

Wow....Just WOW. Some of these comments are just.....WOW The new TG system has taken on the responsibility of fixing all of this. Don't like what's happened? Get your club to elect you WBTG and fix the problem. .38's isn't written in stone. Fix it. Don't just bitch about it, become part of the solution, or shut up. I talked to a lot of shooters, here in Arizona who said "I shoot (fill in the blank) and I don't want to change from condition 1 to SASS" or "I don't have a 40 caliber or larger rifle", or "I don't have a Model 12". Now that most of that is the norm in WBAS, they say "Oh, I got rid of those guns years ago". "I don't have time for another shooting sport". etc. They never intended to shoot WBAS, they just wanted an excuse. Now the excuse is gone, they have to face reality. Don't like the, current, system? Get involved and fix it....Or shut up.

Solution to a nonexistent problem that will come apart at the worst possible time. WBT will come back and haunt me if I ever put one in a 1911 🤠

I am watching the evolution of Wild Bunch with a great deal of interest, as I enjoy it as much (and maybe more than...!) Cowboy Action Shooting. Evolution does not reward that which is best; it rewards that which is best suited to survive, given a certain set of conditions at the time. I was intrigued by the match; the abrupt changes made to WB were undertaken to increase the interest in the game, and, given the modestly robust turnout, with a host of new attendees, may have worked. But I feel like the match itself ran contrary to that ethos. I shot it, and did reasonably well. But, this is the entertainment business, and, listening to shooters who attended, I heard a few things which stuck with me. 1.) "I was never having any fun. I was working the whole time." 2.) "It was humbling; perhaps even humiliating, to have one shooter clean the match." 3.) "When the Super Bowl comes around, they don't move the goalposts back another 20 yards." I'm not sure what the game plan is, but I didn't think it was a great match. I respect all the work that went into it, and the workers who made it so. Also, I will shoot whatever you put in front of me. But the Fast Guys (and Gals!) will still win, and match organizers might do well to consider the experience they are offering for the 80% who want to shoot safely and just have a good time. Cheers, FJT

Don't look for your mags. You don't need to pull them in a specific order. Just drop your hand and grab what you touch. Keep the pistol up when you change mags, don't lower, insert, raise, takes too much time and you have to regain the target. You don't need to hammer the bottom of the mag into the pistol, just put it in right the first time. Whirlwind Wendy taught me all this.

More time is wasted on mag changes than anything else in WBAS. Don't take the gun too far down from the line of sight and practise with your eyes CLOSED. You have to feel the change to get it right. Watch shooters, most have the gun in a lowered position and canted when changing magazines. Both are time wasters. Many change the position from mag change to mag change, they don't know where they have the gun and have to look for it. GOOD LUCK.

The case is being slammed into the slide wall during ejection, probably around the ejection port opening. This is very common when the geometry (shape) of the extractor (which you just changed) is not yet fitted to your gun. The dent comes from impact, while the sideways scratches are caused by the high-speed "twist" imparted during ejection as the case is pulled on the right side by the extractor hook and hit in the left lower rear by the ejector. Look for where there is a shiny spot of "brass rub" on the slide. Often it's on the lower side of the ejection port. But some times in other locations. There is more work to do when fitting a new extractor than just setting the tension. One of the best but short descriptions that I have found is here, written by Bill Wilson: https://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm Look at the very last diagram very closely. If you understand all of the angles and beveling he shows, you may not have to do more study. OK, so you probably do not understand why he is so particular about EVERY facet (machined cut) shown on that extractor tip. So, read this one next, and SEVERAL times, as it is pure gold! https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/ And the extractor section of John Marshall's instructions: https://sightm1911.com/lib/tech/reliability_secrets.htm He makes this statement that speaks volumes about just "slapping in " any company's new extractor: "Most factory extractors and many aftermarket extractors need attention to achieve the optimum in reliability." OK, the lazy way to solve cases hitting the slide, is to cut away the slide where the shiny brass impact spot shows up. The "lowered ejection port" found on lots of 1911s from the factory is this kind of fix, whether a gun really needs it or not. Opening the ejection port like that lets a factory get "no contact" ejection without having to do special fitting. John Browning did not think that it was necessary - his slide designs did not use a lowered ejection port. Case denting was fixed by hand tuning the extractor tip to turn loose of the case rim so that the case ejects straight out to the right, or even upwards at 2 o'clock. I'm sure you have seen 1911s that toss brass straight up to land on the shooter's head, as well. That too is due to a poorly shaped extractor hook. A tighter grip on the case by the highest part of the hook will pull the case out high (12 to 2 o'clock). A tighter fit on the case rim down low in the hook pulls the case out so it slams into the slide wall under the ejection port. Also, check that you have the firing pin stop fitted so that the extractor is not twisting in it's bore. A problem called clocking. Can cause the extractor to turn and hold onto the case in a deleterious manner. Also, look for severe gouge in the extractor cut of the fired cases. A sharp or poorly shaped extractor hook will put a "horizontal gouge" in the angle part of the extractor cut. good luck, GJ

Just a shout out and a Thank You for the certificate for a Wild Bunch rig, donated to the Kansas State Wild Bunch Championship held this past weekend. I was lucky enough to win this. They support SASS at numerous shoots I have attended. As do other leather makers . I have used mernickles products and never disappointed. If you see them stop and Thank them for their support and take a look around.

Many seemed to have loaded the .45 acp for a power factor closer to 160, to ensure making the cut. Not unreasonable for the power factor to be 150-160 for the .45 For the rifle, it would be easy to get to a PF of 120 with a 158 gr bullet and many of the common powders used for the .38 special, according to the loading manuals that I have looked at. Going to a .38 +P or even a .357, which is the chamber anyway, may require a different powder, and I would bet that some would use that (getting another powder) to PREVENT them from shooting WB. In any case, I am in favor of a higher (than 60) PF for the rifle, and continuing the 150 minimum for the 1911, .45 acp. And, I would chrono at State and above matches.

Please don't use SPP 45acp brass in a wild bunch match. The way the 1911's fling brass all over the place, others WILL get some of your brass. If you absolutely must, then: 1. Mark your brass with a heavy sharpie mark across the bottom or even across the sides if possible, and 2. Let your posse know what you are shooting and how you marked it. Thank you.

Okay, @Garrison Joe was helping another shooter out and I thought maybe I could add a few points to those new to the 1911. I have built and repaired many 1911s over the decades and learned a lot of things to use and to avoid, I hope this will be helpful. #1 1911s demand good magazines. Cheap ones will fail you, spend a couple more bucks and get good ones. Genuine Colt, Kimpro, Wilson, MecGar, McCormick and Actmag are all good and reliable. Don't expect the regular Kimber magazines to be reliable and surplus ones can run well IF you put fresh Wolff springs in them. #2 On the subject of springs, just go ahead and buy a Wolff spring pack when you get a used 1911. They are easy to swap out and well worth the effort in caring for Old Slabsides. #3 1911s need good lubrication. I'm a dinosaur but have had great success with Miltec grease on the rails and barrel lugs and good old Remoil on the rest of the moving parts. Don't forget to put a drop inside the barrel bushing where the barrel rides. #4 When you have to replace parts, get good stuff. Wilson, Novak and Ed Brown are the best you can get and will give you excellent service. #5 Grip bushings can come loose if you are not aware and put too much torque on them. If you replace grips regularly this can happen, so if they start to loosen give the threads a drop of blue loctite. #6 1911s are heavy, so get holsters made of thick, strong leather or they will flop around on you. #7 Milspec 1911s have lousy sights. [Hey, they were designed at the turn of the last century] If you decide to swap sights, just go ahead and have a dovetail cut for the front sight, it will save you a ton of headaches in the future. #8 Get a bushing wrench, sooner or later, you will get a 1911 with a really tight bushing. Oh, BTW, there are 3 types of 1911 shooters; those who are so new to 1911s they haven't launched a recoil plug yet, those who admit to it, and liars. You will eventually launch one...

I've written before about the things I've learned from Wilson and other 1911 builders, and my own experience shooting 1911s for 50 years, but here's a short discussion for Wild Bunch. Power factor we shoot in the .45 auto is about 160. Which compares to a factory .45 auto load that makes about 195 PF. So we shoot a light but not bullseye- target-light load. That is what "drives" your need for a 1911 recoil and main spring set. Several builders understand that the recoil spring and mainspring need to work as a balanced pair for best function and reliability. Both are fully active during the operation of the slide. The mainspring is not just "a hammer spring," it assists in taming part of the recoil of the slide. Keep them balanced with the mainspring three to five pounds heavier than the recoil spring. The 1911s coming from most makers today are sprung to handle that factory load 195 PF all day long, and run for 100 years (just about). And even shoot +P level loads. Colt uses (and has used) these spring weights with a simple single coil recoil and mainspring spring in a 5" 1911 in .45 auto for years: 16 pound recoil spring and a 23 pound mainspring. That gives long life and excellent function. But the slide can be a bear for some folks to retract, and to drop the slide release. The springs that I find are "strong enough" to let our lighter loads at 160 PF run reliably and without damage occurring to the gun and with easier racking and dropping of the slide, are: 14 to 15 pound recoil spring and 19 pound mainspring. With a broken-in smooth running gun, and a mainspring housing honed to remove any internal roughness. The Wilson guideline for checking that you have a proper weight of recoil and mainspring in the gun that I also follow is: Fire a magazine of the loads you will normally run. Mark where you were standing and where the center of the group of ejected brass fell. Measure that distance. If the distance the brass was tossed is less than about 5 feet, you have stronger springs than you need for that load. 5 to 10 feet - nice springs. More than 10 feet - weak springs that can be allowing damage to occur to the frame. Then check that well-manufactured rounds always fully feed from full magazines. Other problem areas (including ammo and mags) can affect that second check, but if the rest of the gun is running well, proper springs will never cause any problems feeding or ejecting. Trigger is driven by one leaf of the 3-legged sear spring. Try to just use a factory spring from a good maker - no bending or thinning. Then, when you replace THAT spring after 20,000 rounds or so, you can put a replacement in and be pretty certain it will still work. Firing pin spring is something I never tinker with by installing a non-factory weight spring. The 1911 hits a FP hard, no need to go to a light FP spring. And the factory spring seems to protect from unwanted firing of a dropped, off-thumb-safety gun. My advise - don't drop loaded 1911s! A spring that IS useful to swap with a lighter than factory part is the magazine release button spring. As often as we drop mags on the clock, you need to be 100% certain you get both good mag retention when shooting and fast reliable drops of mags when empty. Hope this helps. Just because a maker has specialty springs for special uses, you don't need to be buying them UNLESS YOU HAVE A WELL THOUGHT OUT REASON! good luck, GJ

Ahh, Wednesday morning and this horse is still kind of twitching. I was really hoping someone with actual authority would have chimed in and answered this. But oh well, It's like waiting for the VA to make a decision, very slow and hope you get the desired outcome. I will also say I do not intend to start using a SxS in WB. But I did actually shot a stage at a North Carolina match recently and did use my SxS. It was the perfect scenario. Only two shotgun targets, sitting right next to each other. SxS kinda stoked will sure beat a pump every time, at least for me in this situation. Everyone called me a gamer, "NOT ME", I said. Ok final comment from me on this post, to try and lighten it up a bit. Maybe my attempt at humor will wake that horse up, and he can run far away from this post. Many years ago when I was working at our HQ, we had one of our instructors who taught the mini gun and 20mm armament system on the Cobra helicopter. He really was not a good instructor. He would basically read verbatim from the lesson plan to the students. If anyone had a question this instructor would re-read the same exact verbiage, except he would read it really slow. Then he would ask, "got it?" Repeat this action if questioned again. Then move onto the next lesson plan. This guy was the perfect example of an individual who experiences the phenomenon called "Illusory Truth Effect". So I will continue to give a no call on this situation, if it ever come's up. Benefit of doubt to the shooter. Hey about a new Mantra: If you see a SxS cycled-it's cycled If you think a SxS is cycled-it's cycled If you think the SxS is open-it's cycled If shooter throws it on table, not opened-It's not cycled Y'all try and have a nice hump day

Regardless of how well tuned your 1911 is or how well you reload your ammo, knowing how to safely and quickly clear a jam is not something to be overlooked. Things happen and I've seen far too many newer shooters struggle with what to do when it happens. Going to slide lock, manually pulling mag from the mag well, clearing a FTF safely and indetifying what can't quickly be fixed should be learned/practiced. When things decide to go wrong, it can really eat up time fixing it. Totes

Boggus makes a great point a smooth trigger press makes the difference in hitting the target. Dry fire practice can not be stressed enough, start slow and in time a smooth press can be compressed to quite quick times. I used to at the end of a practice session ( this requires a paper Target). AT 3 to 5 yards put 3 shots into one hole it will show you what you are doing right or wrong. I still like the front sight . I agree with Happy Jack about time and magazine changes wasting time, make sure to get a good grip with the index finger pointing up the slide towards the bullet, you have a lot of practice pointing use it to get the magazine in the well. Put the flat of the magazine to the flat of the mag well and rotate it. ST

Depending on application, I have springs from Wolff, ISMI, Springco, Wilson Combat, Colt, EGW, Thunder Mountain and others.

I installed the new Boyd's hardwood stock and it looks great! no fitting needed. I am going to keep the original one but I threw the ugly synthetic 3D printed junk in the trash. The foregrip was a breeze with the tool

Maybe there were only six of us shooting, but I'll take it! First time shooting the newly acquired 1897 Winchester with no issues. All in all, it's been a pretty good week with my first ever match win and clean shoot, 10 year anniversary with my wife, and the presidential election results.

How Close Should They Be? Hummm . . . What an interesting question. I believe the answer to be this: It depends on whom you are asking? Ask the persons who shot in the El Rey / La Reina categories at cowboy matches when they are lumped into the Modern or Traditional WB Categories at the State or higher level because there weren't five or more persons in their categories and the match director would not open up those Senior categories for whatever reason. Yup - been places where this has happened. Ask the persons who have shot stages where the scenarios are so complicated that 90% of the posse they are on received a Procedural. Ask those persons who have to struggle seeing rifle/pistol targets that are set at the back of distant berms where the front sight of the pistol is larger than the targets. And of all the places I have been shooting WB, very few clean the stages, no matter how the range is set. So am I advocating targets being set up close and personal. Not by any means. I know how I set WB targets when we had our range. Targets were 16"x"16' for squares and circles were 16" in diameter for our club. The pistol targets were set anywhere between 18' to 22'. Rifle targets at around 35', rifle/pistol targets at 25' and shotgun targets around 27'. I always used a tape measure. The Texas Stars, dueling trees, hostage/hostage taker targets were right at the 15' mark. These are just what I did and your mileage vary at your own clubs. I will make another observation . At State level Cowboy Match in the state where I live, the then President of the club made some remarks that went something like this: As he stood at the front of the audience he surveyed the trophies laid out to the front and sides of him. As he addressed the audience, he stated that statically about 10% of the audience would receive the those trophies. The other 90% of the audience were there to watch and see who were awarded those trophies. He went on to further say, those 10% of the audience receiving those trophies, would probably be in the top 10% no matter where they went. He state that he was writing stages, he struggled with who should he be writing a match for? Those top 10% who will continue to be in the top 10% no matter how challenging a match is or the 90% who will come back to support the club knowing that most will never have a chance at wining an award or ever seeing they names in the top 10% of whatever match they are attending. I believe that same challenge should be applied to any Cowboy or WB Match no matter what the level of the match is. Your audience will dictate what to write. No matter which group stages are being written for, attempt to make a challenge for everyone without writing stages that are only for the top 10%. In other words, everyone's organization is different. Do what works for you at your organization. When you travel and you don't care for the hosting clubs written stages let your pocket book do the talking. Thanks for reading - J.J. PS - Remember, all of those writing stages for any match, this is an entertainment business. Too hard, too close, too far away, too easy - well I'm sure you get the jest.

Just my 2 cents, after shooting the World Championship Wild Bunch Match at this years 2024 EOT, to me the match was nothing but a cowboy match with a 1911. There was no challenge to the match, target sets were the same as the Cowboy match, with maybe a couple of added Shotgun targets. Target sizes were big and close, with a couple of plates racks to engage. I believe SASS will continue to lose veteran and seasoned Wild Bunch shooters under the current rules. Whatever you are attempting to gain in new shooters, you will lose in the veterans, who loved and enjoyed the challenge and variety of targets and scenarios of the original basic style Wild Bunch matches. Wild Bunch is not a speed match as depicted in your comments in the new rules booklet, page 4, version 17.4, dated April 10, 2024. Maybe an Open Category or a Mild Bunch side match, would be a b etter place to start, to collect information and drive interest. Power factor, even for .38 ammo should still be required, as with weapons (1911) safety checks. It's suppose to be different than Cowboy Action, with a greater challenge. Not a match where lots of clean match pins are awarded for accuracy and speed. Let's get the 28, 35 & 42 pistol round count back in the game. Pistol only stages with lots of targets. Rifle round counts in the 5 to 10 per stage. Shotgun- 4, 6 & 8 rounds to a stage. Poppers, swingers, action target sets. Again, just my 2 cents. The old way was better. I'm afraid the new way will end up being a Cowboy version of fast and furious with a 1911.

I shoot left handed, I wouldn't want to swap mag release sides even if it were legal. I use my middle finger to drop the mag and have my index finger outside the trigger guard hovering above the slide release while changing mags. mag in finger down on slide release then back on trigger, fast. Practice practice practice.

I made this comment in response to a photo that SASS posted on Facebook. The backdrop to the SASS booth at the Great American Outdoor Show is a colorful photo (Monument Valley, I suppose) with a centered caption that reads "Single Action Shooting Society" and under that "Shooting Sports". Under that heading "Cowboy Action Shooting" is on the left and "Wild Bunch Action Shooting" on the right. To the newcomer it coveys the message that SASS offers two separate shooting sports (which has been true for some time) but also that they are equally important, instead of CAS being the primary focus of SASS while WBAS is an afterthought. This is subtle messaging but I thought it meaningful and a demonstration that SASS really wants to promote Wild Bunch.

Lyman cast bullet handbook shows almost exactly the same weights of WST or Titegroup make the same velocities with a 230 grain slug. The maximum pressure listed in handbook with TG is higher than maximum for WST, as are velocities. So that establishes a safety margin A 4.2 grain WST load with the 230 grain cast bullet is a favorite (even a standard) of many WB shooters, and it's what I load for knockdown targets. So, a great place to start would be 4.2 grains of TiteGroup and that 230 grain slug loaded to put the lowest part of the nose (where it tapers out to the full bullet shank diameter) right at the mouth of the case. Then you can chrono that and probably find that to make about 710 FPS. You can step up slightly from there if desired. Each 1911 I've ever loaded for shoots a different velocity with any given load, so running bullets over a chronograph or LabRadar is recommended. good luck, GJ

The only gripe about the.38 was now rifle cannot be last due to low loadings on the .38 not registering on the timer.

I do know the top Traditional shooter, male or female, Lady Jane, won Lady Traditional using a .45 Colt rifle and did not feel the least hindered by it. Went head to head with Holy Terror in the Top Gun shoot off and came close behind her using one hand.

Most likely a few grains of powder that did not burn in barrel. 4.0 grains with a 230 is pretty light, and WST is a medium speed pistol powder, so I would expect he was not getting 100% burn in the barrel. Just much easier to see in dim light. Usually the load is 4.2 grains with a 230 for WB. If you really want to check, throw an old sheet on the ground, stand or kneel at the edge of that, shoot over the sheet. Unburned grains may collect on the sheet. good luck, GJ

I guess since there is no longer a committee to settle nor is there a spokesman to say what the position is this it may be up to the WBAS TG's to settle. A sorry state.🤢

There are different recommendations for OAL in the .45 auto, because there are BUNCHES of different mold designs. The designs with a longer ogive have a skinny nose, and can be seated farther out. Short, blunt, fat noses will start sticking in the very short throat of factory and similar short-throated 1911 barrels if you load them to a long OAL length. OAL "requirements" for the .45 auto cartridge are the place where OAL becomes kinda stupid and just about useless. IGNORE OAL when loading, because you are not going to be loading Wild Bunch ammo up at MAXIMUM LOAD pressures, where the amount of bullet that is pushed into the case walls matters. If it really matters in these loads, they would tell you exactly what bullet mold design they were using. What you NEED to do, is make sure ALL the cylindrical section of the bullet is inside the case. Just the nose part sticks out. Nose being any part of the curve or conical part (for a truncated cone) at the front of the bullet. So, you look at your bullet, and find where the cylinder shape of the bands on the bullet shank "turns the corner" and becomes the curved part (or conical part) of the nose. Mark that spot with a knife cut or a Sharpie. Then set your seater die to put that mark just even with the case mouth. This puts the cylinder (shank) of the bullet in the case and the nose outside the case. No one knows WHICH of the various molds for 230 grain round nose that Hornady technicians selected to load and run the pressure tests on. So their "exactly 1.200 inches" OAL label on the load is what THEIR bullet probably needed. But won't be what you need. You found by trial that 1.260" OAL would stick the nose of YOUR slug into the rifling of YOUR barrel. And 1.250" would not. Which means you are not making much of a jump at all with the bullet - maximum jump gap would be 1.260 - 1.250 or 10 thousandths. That is nothing. Even if you had a gap to jump of 50 thousandths, it would not make a lot of difference with a pistol bullet. The techs are mostly trying to prevent folks from seating a bullet so far into the case that it raises pressures due to smaller volume for combustion at "bullet start". The deeper the bullet is seated in the case, the more combustion space the bullet takes up, leaving less space for combustion. IF they were trying to give you an OAL for best possible accuracy, they would be putting the bullet nose out closer to the rifling, which for your bullet might be 1.255" Your 1.250" is just about perfect for best accuracy, and not so long that you stick a bullet solidly enough into the rifling to have the problems of too long a load: * provide too much resistance to getting the bullet started down the barrel, raising chamber pressure wildly, or * stripping the bullet out of the case if you have to open the slide with a live round (which leaves a slug stuck in the barrel), or * if really long, then slide fails to go into battery because the bullet has hit the rifling and the case does not get 100% of the way into the chamber (the firing pin won't fall). So, to review, the recommended OAL in .45 auto loading data FOR CAST BULLETS is usually wrong because you don't have the same bullet that the techs used. The important part is to load so the curved nose section of the slug is all that is forward of the case mouth Crimp is just a taper that straightens out the expansion bell you put on to make bullet seating easy, and to return the OD of the loaded round at the mouth to about 0.471 or 0.472" And, make sure your OAL is short enough to let you shuck out an unfired round without having the bullet stick in chamber or refuse to come out the ejection port. For comparison, I shoot a truncated cone bullet, which has a longer nose compared to the typical Round Nose of a lot of .45 auto case bullets. My OAL is 1.180". Bullet still feeds fine, I don't get higher pressures than the loading books show, I have no failures to go to battery or stuck bullets when ejecting a live round. Both my loads and your loads need to share only one "measurement" - that the case mouth gets put where the cylinder of the bullet shank starts to curve at the beginning of the nose. Those OALs are vastly different. Both are safe and effective because they keep the fattest diameter of the slug back behind where the rifling starts. good luck, GJ

Come to NM in April. It is NOT a SASS sanctioned match.

I had the misfortune of breaking my Les Baer Premiere, two weeks ago, on the eve of the Nevada State Wild Bunch Championships. A quick phone call to Les Baer netted a brief but very enjoyable conversation with Les Baer, himself, (seriously? he's got nothing better to do than answer questions from some yahoo out in California?) and I overnighted the pistol back to them, in Iowa. It was returned to me at no cost, in as new condition, in three days. I cannot begin to tell you how pleased I am, with both the 1911, and that level of customer service. Nevada State WB was a challenging match, and my freshly repaired Les Baer performed brilliantly. I can't imagine another manufacturer doing that, in that time window. Look; I get that computers crash, BMWs break down, and even space shuttles blow up. It's what happens after that that matters. Very pleased, Frederick Jackson Turner

Hey, folks; I'm headed home, after about the best week of Cowboy Action Shooting anyone could ever hope for, the Days Of Truth European Cowboy Championships. I'll be writing an upcoming article for the SASS Chronicle, where you can get more details, but for now, here are the highlights. The event was limited to 360 shooters, and it still sold out in under 24 hours. Shooters from ELEVEN nations were present. Sadly, there was only one American on hand. Still, they went out of their way to make me feel welcome. Their Wild Bunch match featured 130 shooters, making it the LARGEST Wild Bunch Match, outside the US. And, incidentally, that is nearly 40% of the shooters at the main match, who wished to participate in the Wild Bunch match. It is far harder for them to acquire Wild bunch gear there, than here. And yet, they outnumbered us in attendance and participation. WHY??? Way back in 2010 and 20011, I went over there to help give European shooting a kick in the tail, and offered a Cowboy Action Shooting Class, to show how we do things in the US. (You can find the results of that event in the September and October 2010 issues of the Chronicle, here:) https://www.sassnet.com/resources/cowboy-chronicle A dozen years later...this. They have a load of shooters who can compete with anyone in the US. Every kid under about 30 is shooting 2-second rifle strings. This was the best SASS event I have ever attended. It was GREAT! Cheers, FJT

GJ, taking it apart and learning how it all works......I couldn't stop thinking what a genius JMB was.

We are proud to announce the formation of "THE Prairie State Wild Bunch" wild bunch action shooting club. We will be hosting an Illinois State Wild Bunch match on July 28, 29 & 30 at the Sandoval Sporting Range, Sandoval Illinois. More to follow.

CND - thanks for the fix. And, no, lots of other forums make me much sadder than this one ever does. This is one of the MOST useful forums on the net. good luck, GJ

Why not just shoot in the modern category with one hand? I'm working on a technique to do that on stages that have a lot of mag changes.

The Alaska State Wild Bunch Championship was held May 14th and 15th 2022 with the following results. Chilkoot Nellie, Ladies Modern and Ladies State Champion. Taino, Men's Modern Alaskan, Men's Traditional and Overall State Champion. Congrats to the winners. Marshal Stone

I know, it was just a side match, but there were so many signups that they had to split up into three posses - that's pretty close to 40 WB shooters - about 1/4 of the total entries for the state cowboy match - on a windy Thursday afternoon! I guess if you build it, they will come! And the Cajon Cowboys could not have been more helpful or accommodating. Delighted to be a part of it. Cheers, A delighted FJT