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The chrono procedures and guidelines as well as other info on weighing bullets etc. WAS in the Older MD guides. I know I wrote them.

Man I really like this rig!!!

Mine is. Just about every male WB Shooter I know is in the back. Makes it easier to place you holster and mag pouches.

That rig is set up for the buckle in the back.

We don't need more categories we just need to keep traditional as such, allowing the new commers that don't have the 45 1911 nor the 40 cal rifle to enter through the modern category. Once they get the flavor they will want to move up to the bigger bore. Please talk to your WBTG

In my view we should keep traditional with the 45 ACP 1911 and the 40 plus caliber rifle and not move it down to the 83 cal rifle and or the 9mm 1911 pistol. The lighter power factor reduces recoil and presents an unfair advantage against the traditional 45 ACP or Colt and its power factor. I agree we need to bring more participants over to wild bunch and I would rather see us allow the 38 rifle and the 9mm 1911 as part of the modern category. This would allow new shooters to get their feet wet in the sport and decide if they want to move over to traditional. We don't need more categories we just need to keep traditional as such, allowing the new commers that don't have the 45 1911 nor the 40 cal rifle to enter through the modern category. Once they get the flavor they will want to move up to the bigger bore.

Now if they colored the brass, say purple, when they had small primers - that would be fine 🙂

No filler. BAMM is not THAT much a precision shooting match. Besides, the use of any filler with a shouldered case and smokeless powder is strongly DISCOURAGED by Lyman and Hodgdon. Can lead to ringed chambers, and they don't really understand why. good luck, GJ

I'm right handed, I thought the belt was for a lefty but it's not. It's designed to be buckled in the back which up until I put my 2023 state championship buckle on it, I didn't like that. Now I can buckle it in the back with almost no trouble with the new buckle on it. I've spent some time drawing and doing mag changes and wow this is so much better than the rig I made from old duty gear I've been using for 5 years! I've cut 2-3 seconds off my mag change times! Man I love this set up!

Yep, me at EoT several years ago. 0.1 ozs overweight. Slim grips fitted!! See Happy Jacks last two sentences!! Jim

YES I weighed guns at matches for years. I had a few go overweight and the shooter fixed them or changed guns. That was when we would weigh them before a match if asked. I remember after we went to weighing them during the match and they failed. Then the person could shoot the remaining stages if they wished but for no score for the match.

I’ve not DQd a shooter but I made them swap guns. Just like a very nice lady whose husband had given her a liteweight Kimber to shoot. She did not speak English and had no idea. Her husband was an a*^. If he had been shooting the gun, I would have DQd him.

How about posting the changes here?

My 03A3 with the loads I described has basically zero recoil. What is the rifle, 9 pounds? A 185 grain bullet at 1600 fps is at beast a glorified .357 Magnum.

I load 18 grains of Alliant 2400 and a bullet, no filler. I've loaned the rifle to numerous people who won the matches shooting against me, so I can share that not only has it worked very well, it's worked very well at making me take 2nd place to my own friends with my own rifle.

Is SASS Wild Bunch Action Shooting really Cowboy Action Shooting with a 1911? My introduction to the 1911 was with my local SASS clubs, High Plains Drifters and ROOP. I was new to SASS and was really enjoying the change from IDPA. My local clubs arranged to have Sutter Lawman teach a local Wild Bunch RO class. This was 10+ years ago. I recall him stating several times that WB is NOT Cowboy with a 1911. Towards the end of the course, he mentioned that he was working with the WB Committee for a rule change. Currently the WB magazines were limited to holding only FIVE rounds. Evidently when WB started it was a side match using the stages from Cowboy, therefore five rounds to match Cowboy stage descriptions. Hmmm, sounds like Cowboy with a 1911 to me? Soon after the WB Committee did change the round count from five to the current seven. Ah, I am thinking, breaking away from Cowboy **. Ok, enough of the history lesson. Two years ago, SASS was very concerned about the profitability of Wild Bunch. There were many opinions, as far as I am concerned it does not matter. There was/is a goal to increase participation, GREAT!!!! My thoughts. Retain the WB Category structure of several years ago and create a new category, “Open”. In Open category any caliber 1911 is allowed. Any Cowboy rifle and shotgun are allowed (including Model 12). Power factor of 150 for both pistols and rifle. What??? Yes, 150. 38’s (.357) are available at 158+ grains and higher which keeps speed below 1000 fps, also 9 mm at 160 grains (Bear Creek & Bayou). This keeps with the concept that Wild Bunch is NOT Cowboy with a 1911. For those shooters that want to shoot their 105 grain 38 SPL, I say this is "Wild Bunch, NOT Cowboy with a 1911" **. What another category??? Noooooo you say!! OK then using the above suggestion for power factor allow 9mm and any legal cowboy long gun in the Modern Category. Return Traditional to the way it was several years ago, 40 caliber and higher, pump shotgun. Still not convinced, very sad I say **. At least LEAVE Traditional alone as it is NOT Cowboy with a 1911. You want Cowboy with a 1911 then mess with Modern. My suggestions do not EXCLUDE anyone and retains some history of SASS Wild Bunch Action Shooting. ** BTW from slide #4 of the WBAS course: However, there are distinct differences between the 2 disciplines, and it is important to remember that WBAS was not developed to be, nor is it to be presented as “CAS with a 1911”.

WHY??? Are they also going to eliminate Doughboy?

I'm curious how many folks have actually lightened their pistol loads. My guess, is some but not most. Granted, some new WB shooters may be starting with a lighter load as I've seen some new folks have 1911 cycling issues. IMHO, Rifle is not the gun that determines matches. For me, I'd bet my .38 rifle and .45 rifle are only a few tenths different in a 10 shot string. I have yet to see a SxS at any WB matches I have shot since the change. Are Power Factor rule changes actually making any measurable difference in the game? I honestly don't know. The rule changes don't seem to prevent anyone from participating the exact same way they did before the change. Is it the position on the scoresheet that has folks upset? Shooting my .38 rifle sure didn't raise me up on any scoresheets, but it makes reloading for my wife and I easier and cheaper. Totes

Thinking the belt is buckled on your backside and the holster is supposed to be placed next to t he shotgun shell holders. Could be wrong. Been wrong before, will be wrong again. However, it is a nice looking rig. J.J.

I've seen a gun that was too heavy in Traditional back about 2011. Shooter brought out his backup. He carried on. good luck, GJ

The pdf document you get from the email has an error with the first change "1. Minimum pistol weight for the 1911 will be changed to 43 ounces." The document above has the correct text in that it is "Maximum weight" just an fyi

do share!!!

Probably not this year.

As others have stated filler in bottle necked cases is not a good idea. My recommendation is "The Load" is 13 Grains of Red Dot" by Ed Harris

Yes, just can't affix the bayonet.

There ya go! Mernickle makes good kit. Now, get to the range and get after it! Cheers, FJT

Jodi, When I try the link, it indicates that the domain has expired. Is there another way to get to the site? If you would, email a copy of the entry. Don Jorge

Kirkpatrick are by far the best. Check with Taylor’s & Co.

The concern for the powerfactor is more about the timers. Wild Bunch stage writing has a leg up in that previously we could shoot stages ending on the rifle. In wide open stages/ranges it has been found to be inconsistent timer pick up of rifle shots, especially as we see .38 rifles with a lower report than .22s. A consistent PF also makes use of KD targets easier for a MD to calibrate. I would say that moving rifle targets back makes low PF self correcting, but we are in a thread about Cowboy with 1911.

Well picked up a William's receiver sight for the Savage. Holes match up in the receiver, so tomorrow I'm going to mount it on the rifle, even though it's still on layaway! Pics once mounted.

Very handsome!

Prolly sold after 2 years! 😉

Great policy for you. Won't help grow the game, though, if you have any concern there. Won't help keep older folks shooting as joint pain creeps into their lives. And gets SASS into a nanny role on reloading. good luck, GJ

And, that's the reason for the change. Gets more folks shooting.

https://www.wolverinerangers.org/Results2025-2026/20250928_saginawWB.html overall winner lady- Hey Sugar overall winner - Ethan Callahan

Easy mistake I think. I don't often see mens belts buckle in back. But there are some!

Yeah, I figured that out last night messing with it. Not sure how I like that though. Now I feel stupid that I sent them a message that "they" screwed up...lol... oh well, at least now I have a funny story to tell at the next match...

The change from a 230 grain slug to a 225 grain slug will make about 3 Power Factory numbers difference (lower). It will NOT knock down a 180 PF to a 155 PF or so! There is still something really wrong in your understanding of the load. 5.2 grains of Unique cannot make that load have 180 PF. good luck, GJ May be time for another person to chrono your loads. Not every chronograph is accurate nor is every shooter good at setting up and calibrating and operating a chrono.

NOPE! I don't believe something with your data! Lyman loading manuals for years have shown the starting load for a 225 grain cast bullet and Unique to be 5.5 grains of powder, which they report making 695 FPS. That would be 156 Power Factor - just barely legal for WB. Tell us your EXACT bullet weight and chronograph muzzle (5 feet away) velocity reading. I suspect you have the velocity reading wrong. I doubt you would ever need to be below 5.5 grains. Otherwise, you have a 1911 that is able to make a much HIGHER muzzle velocity than would be expected. I went way back in Lyman handbooks. The 45th Edition (1970 vintage) shows a starting load for the 225 grain slug as 5.0 grains of Unique. Manuals newer than that start the load data at 5.5 grains. And as to "flash-over" (AKA Secondary Explosion Event)? NEVER heard that concern when loading light loads in a 1911 or any other handgun using a normal speed handgun powder. But, there is no real reason to be below Lyman's 5.5 grain starting load that I mentioned above. I suspect the "powder company rep" made quite a mistake with his advice, or you asked him a poorly worded question. If he was from Alliant, he needs to go back to school. Did you calculate Power Factor correctly? PF = bullet weight (grains) x velocity (fps) / 1000 So, Lyman's starting load makes 225 x 695 / 1000 or 156 PF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now, if by any chance you are using a 250 grain slug in the 1911 - STOP! All the 250 grain bullets I have tried do NOT seat well in the short .45 Auto case. The base of the slug bulges most brands of brass at the mid-case area when seated to put the top of the bullet lands at the mouth of the case. There are several real reasons why no loading manual shows loads for bullets heavier than 230 grains in the .45 auto. Potential failure to chamber loaded rounds is one of them. Also, easy to get recoil that pounds the gun too hard. My personal experience - when I was much younger and longed for my 1911 to really buck, I loaded the 225 grain cast bullet with 7.0-7.5 grains of Unique - kind of the standard load with Unique back when Col Cooper was holding court. A load that will make you understand the 1911 is a potent gun. But now I like the 5.6 grain load better with a 225 grain bullet, but not as well as I like several cleaner modern powders. good luck, GJ

There were major issues with getting signed up for this forum for a long time that have supposedly been fixed. That may be why many people talk about WBAS over there. Others may not even realize we have our own forum.

A question was raised at Land Run during the warmup, so the match director specifically addressed it in the main match shooter’s meeting as allowed/legal. There is nothing in the rules about it, and I would have a hard time arguing against it when I look at original issued 1911 holsters.

Try using shorter shells - 2 1/2 or less. B*P has had (10 years ago) a light load with a 2.5" shell. Or reload for a short shell. good luck, GJ (Six shotshells, each saving 1/2 inch, saves you a total of 3" - enough for that 6th round to fit!)

Burn them. Burn them with fire. Terminate them with extreme prejudice. That is all. FJT

Illegal modification………was it approved paint?

Just painted the dots.☺️

IMO, it's just being inconsiderate of everyone that has been using the large primer 45Auto brass for decades. So yep, user name fits. Folks using the small primer brass are simply making it harder for those set up for large primer 45Auto to reload. Brass is not cheaper. I haven't found anywhere that sells new, unprimed small primer brass, and those that sell used brass charge the same, whether small or large primer. I will not return your brass to you, when it winds up in my brass bag, I put it in my scrap brass bin and sell it. In my view, small primer 45 Auto brass is probably the brain child of some "anti-gun" engineer who thought it a great way to infuriate gun folks. Very much how I feel about Hodgdon and its Pyrodex rusting agent that burns.

You can load anything with Unique. Unique will do all things good . But not the best it can be done .

Ahh, Wednesday morning and this horse is still kind of twitching. I was really hoping someone with actual authority would have chimed in and answered this. But oh well, It's like waiting for the VA to make a decision, very slow and hope you get the desired outcome. I will also say I do not intend to start using a SxS in WB. But I did actually shot a stage at a North Carolina match recently and did use my SxS. It was the perfect scenario. Only two shotgun targets, sitting right next to each other. SxS kinda stoked will sure beat a pump every time, at least for me in this situation. Everyone called me a gamer, "NOT ME", I said. Ok final comment from me on this post, to try and lighten it up a bit. Maybe my attempt at humor will wake that horse up, and he can run far away from this post. Many years ago when I was working at our HQ, we had one of our instructors who taught the mini gun and 20mm armament system on the Cobra helicopter. He really was not a good instructor. He would basically read verbatim from the lesson plan to the students. If anyone had a question this instructor would re-read the same exact verbiage, except he would read it really slow. Then he would ask, "got it?" Repeat this action if questioned again. Then move onto the next lesson plan. This guy was the perfect example of an individual who experiences the phenomenon called "Illusory Truth Effect". So I will continue to give a no call on this situation, if it ever come's up. Benefit of doubt to the shooter. Hey about a new Mantra: If you see a SxS cycled-it's cycled If you think a SxS is cycled-it's cycled If you think the SxS is open-it's cycled If shooter throws it on table, not opened-It's not cycled Y'all try and have a nice hump day

Try 5.5-5.6gn of Unique. OLG

Can't help but I think Original Lumpy Grits (OLG) on the main SASS wire might be able to help. I think he does/has used it for 45ACP. Knowledgable guy. I would trust his advise.