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From several thousands of rounds of testing, a 230 grain at 725 fps is faster shot to shot than a 200 grain at 800+. The gun stays down and is less snappy.

New sponsor alert: Winchester Bourbon located in Michigan is now a sponsor for SASS presents Saginaw Showdown 2026 Michigan Wild Bunch State Championship June 13-14th. Applications now available.

Rules written at different times by different persons? Perhaps influenced by their "home range" safety rules that they are familiar with? And perhaps because shot size is hardly important to shooting 10 yard steel knockdown targets. I have seen several WB shooters not be handicapped at all shooting #9 shot. And I shoot #8 all the time. As to exactly WHY in any of the SASS rules, perhaps developed 25 years ago and modified since then, it is almost impossible for most of us to have a real clue. But it's not like we really NEED to know WHY to play the game. Learn the rules, follow the rules - for the game you are playing. But, if you think the two rules need to be "harmonized" (made the same), suggest that to your local Territorial Governor and see if they want to "pick that hill to die on." good luck, GJ

The 2026 Illinois State WB Championship will be held as part of the 2026 Illinois State SASS Championship match to be held in Milan, IL from July 15 - 19, 2026. Match information and applications can be found here WB is 8 stages, 5 on Wednesday and 3 on Thursday with lunch and awards to follow. Hope to see you there! Cowboy Rick

What was really bad was when SASS sold ammo that didn’t meet power factor when it was tested..

It's used when there is an appearance of PF failure. At the old WR, it was used every day, every year. Random shooter, one or two per posse, had to submit ammo in ziplocks to be tested. Happened the same way at the older 4 Corners Regionals. Happened, for cause, at a 4 corners regional as well. Shooter had to change ammo. PF was so low it wasn't cycling his 1911.

The short throat in a 1911 barrel catches a lot of new loaders of .45 AUTO by surprise, as they load a few hundred, go to the range, and find every one of the loads fails to go the last 1/8" into battery. Some keys to loading so they will feed well in your gun: 1 - the point on the nose where the upper end of the cylindrical section of the bullet (the shank) STARTS to narrow down (round over) to the nose ogive is the place where the case mouth should be placed during seating. If you crimp down on the shank, the nose will jam into the short throat of the barrel and round will not go fully into chamber. If you crimp out on the ogive of the bullet, you will have collapsed bullets during hard feeding. Remember that there is NO standard nose length on cast .45 AUTO bullets, because there have been hundreds of molds made to cast these slugs over the years. Regardless of what a manual may state. So, don't load to the published OAL, load to put the case mouth at the start of the ogive turn-in. 2 - apply a taper crimp that just returns the case mouth to 0.472", measured with a caliper. You are only straightening out the case from where you expanded the mouth, and just barely catching the surface of the bullet with the inside edge of the case mouth. Looking down from on top of loaded rounds, you should still see a bright ring of brass all the way around the bullet. The case mouth is the headspace location, so if you "bury" the brass case wall all the way into the bullet during crimping, the headspace mechanism is removed and rounds can chamber too deep to fire. 3 - get a loaded round checking gauge, and check EACH cartridge to make sure it chambers perfectly. Several companies make them, including Dillon and Wilson (the trimmer guys, not the gun guys, unless Bill Wilson just happens to be making them now, too). Yes, you can take the barrel out of your 1911 and drop rounds into the chamber, but it will "get old" breaking down your pistol every time you load a batch of ammo. 4 - good on you for bulge busting your "range" cases. But if a round fails the chamber check from step 3, the first thing to try is to bulge-bust that LOADED round. I've busted thousands of loaded rounds and never had a discharge. Second thing to do if you fail chamber-check is to look at the mouth of the case and find any lead finger-nails that "squirted out" during crimping. Depending upon the quality of bullet and your ability to squarely seat a bullet, you may or may not find a sliver of lead needing to be trimmed off the round. Those 2 corrections will almost always get the round to pass chamber-checking. 5 - chrono check and calculate Power Factor yourself. Not every 1911 will shoot a load from the manual at the velocity that the book shows! Sounds like you are well on the way to making great ammo. good luck, GJ

Now,now, boys!!!

Power factor for pistol is, and always was, 150. Power factor for Wild Bunch Rifle is 60 Power factor for Classic Wild Bunch Rifle is 150 The PF for Pistols was never changed. If a club decides to no longer offer WB because of the 150 PF for Classic Rifle, they need to acknowledge the PF for ALL Pistols, forever, has been 150. Nothing new here. Figure some other reason to not allow WB.

Mine get edited when I spot a typo after posting it, or I want to comment on another point, like I did about the question of how the OP's ammo looked. None were edited after another poster added their reply. GJ

Who does a function check at matches? https://www.m1911.org/technic25.htm The disconnector test is REALLY critical.

Tall John, You will notice that some posts are all edited because they are originally wrong and googled based, not experience and success based.

Don’t drop the loaded round into the chamber and drop the slide. You will certainly at some point break the extractor. It’s designed for the cartridge rim to ride up the breach face under the extractor hook.

One bay. 2 volunteers. In between 2 stages somewhere in the match.

There was a bay where the equipment was set up for anyone to test their loads. That was the day before WB started. Some folks took advantage of the opportunity, some didn't. It's impractical to check 150+ shooters ammo, at five rounds each, and still complete the match. There is no more MDQ for scoring purposes so, once challenged and found lacking, it's a SDQ for any stage, after that, the ammo is used, and a MDQ for the second stage used.

I wonder why we care if the safeties work if we're not allowed to move with loaded guns or have loaded guns in our holsters. Would you really want to win a Wild Bunch match because your fellow competitor's grip safety didn't work when tested?

Doing it like that seems tremendously unfair and to send the wrong message. If it can't be done with calibrated equipment and for everyone, it shouldn't be done at all.

I would recommend your function check after any tuning/repair or every couple of years of use. On a safe outdoor range, load a mag with 1 round, a couple with 2 rounds, and several full mags. When time to test "proper disconnector" function, shoot them in that order. Be ready to control gun with two hands after the first mag. If you have any doubles (or worse), fix it better. There often is no place at a match to do this kind of test. Nor time to conduct it, nor time to fix it. Bring a working gun and working ammo to a Wild Bunch match! good luck, GJ

I have seen safety checks and ammo pulled and some tested. I don't have a problem with that being done...and it probably should be done...along with weighing pistols. I think that really at checkin...pistols should be weighed and the grip safety checked. During the match...random samples of ammo pulled and at least some of it checked.

The disconnector is there for more than that. It prevents it from firing out of battery and from going full auto.

No one ever has done official "function checks" in that detail at a WB match. While it may be critical to buying a gun, it's not IMO critical to shooting a match safely. We have a whole bay full of safety officers watching the shooter, and able to stop the action if they see a serious safety problem. The test of a working grip safety and thumb safety has been part of the rules compliance testing of 1911s (along with weight, parts and modifications falling within rules, etc). I was a TO at a major WB match several years ago and issued two Stage DQs on the same stage to a very careless shooter (second one after a Cease Fire had been put in place). Neither was a failure of 1911 function. I think the real safety concern at matches needs to remain "Is the shooter following good safe gun handling". Just like we do now. good luck, GJ

It's in the WBAS SHB, pg 31

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Get a dr.s note. Exceptions are made.

Again, two separate occurrences. 1 Action must be cycled when discarded for the FINAL time. 2. Action not required to be cycled WHEN FOR FURTHER USE.

You guys are a bad influence. I want to shoot classic now. Someone needs to sell me another 73.

Without any hesitation stage 8. Everyone had the opportunity to shoot blazing fast and still be CLEAN. No need for spotters either the target is down or not. Stage 5 could have been more interesting if the shotgun used all three positions. *Comment* As a PM, fun stages for shooters become stressful stages for TO, spotters and PM. "Fun" for me, happens when the stage has elements to consider.

Because there is none. It's only a penalty if there is a live round in the chamber SDQ If there is an expended in the chamber, and the shotgun is staged closed, it's a P for not cycling the action.

That is not a rib, it's a sight base. That older style of adjustable sight needs a long slot to mount the front part of the sight. Besides, factory (OEM) full ribs have been allowed if they are part of the manufacturing process, not an add-on. Like on some Gold Cups. good luck, GJ

A new 1911 has traditionally needed about 200 factory power FMJ rounds through it to break it in. Loosen up the action, wear in the extractor, etc. The Taurus? Would not HURT to run some through it, too. Fire 50 or so, clean the gun. Repeat. Look for any failures of any sort. If a 1911 is hiccuping on factory FMJ, it for sure has problems that can get in the way of running lighter power lead bullet ammo. Report back how the break ins go. There COULD be a function problem with both guns, but very unlikely. Unlikely either will malfunction with FMJ, but the object is to loosen the gun up so testing with lighter lead bullet ammo tells no lies. So, loosen the guns up before you seriously start looking for why the reloaded ammo does not run the guns well. The ammo you have loaded at this point looks reasonable. Nose is a little flat-ish compared to FMJ ammo. That should not cause a failure to feed the last 1/8" into chamber though. Powder coating CAN cause some chambering problems. Have the bullets been run through a sizer die AFTER being powder coated? I have seen some coatings so thick or so non-slick that they cause a failure to feed, but mostly by sticking the nose to the feed ramp and depositing powder coat color there. good luck, GJ

Layered safety, I would guess. Just like in aviation, where a mistake in operation or mechanical failure can be fatal. But, I did not help write the rules. I just shoot by them. good luck, GJ

Gun is not in battery (ready to drop hammer on firing pin) until the rear surface of slide and rear surface of frame just below the joint between them are perfectly flush. This is not a jam, or a failure to feed. It's a failure to go into battery. If you push the slide forward with a strong tap of heel of your off-hand, does this resolve the failure-to-fully-chamber problem and let it fire? If it does, do you keep the disconnector tip lubed with a drop of oil every time you take gun apart for cleaning? Are you using range pickup brass to reload? If so, you really need a chamber check gauge to see if your brass has a base bulge common with loads that are hot enough to swell the case just in front of the extractor groove. Barrel plunking probably will not find these bulged brass situations. Spend $20 or so and get a good loaded round checker gauge! The most common problem new .45 auto loaders have is they run into brass with bulges at the base, which the sizer die in .45 auto will not remove! That is where the Lee bulge-buster kit comes in really handy. This consists of a push-thru die and a push rod which install on a spare single-stage press. Even a loaded round can be pushed through this die safely. But the best way to use it is "bulge bust" all fired brass that you know you did not shoot from your own guns, before you reload it. If you sometimes shoot almost +P level reload ammo, you may want to bust all your own fired brass, too. The bulge if not removed, sometimes means the round will not fully chamber, thus will not fire. Second cause of failure "just short of fully chambered" is a bullet seated long enough to jam the ogive of the nose into the very short throat of the 1911. If you find the rounds that do not chamber and inspect the exposed bullet nose for rifling marks, it should tell you if that round was over-length for your gun. No part of the cylindrical SHANK of the bullet should be in front of the case mouth. Only the rounded ogive of the nose can hang out in front of the mouth. good luck, GJ

All USPSA matches are tested and there are several hundred shooters. For example, testing is on stage 4. As shooters finish stage 3, they go test. It’s recorded. They go to stage 5. Match officials check PF for major and minor levels and if a shooter doesn’t meet, they face consequences. Shooter gets to the test area, official asks for a magazine off the body and tests. May be first mag maybe third mag. I prefer knockdowns that require a certain level of PF. Yes, it’s hard to keep them calibrated. Yes, it’s a lot of work for a match staff.

Every EOT WB held at Founders Ranch had random rifle and pistol ammo from "random" shooters pulled and tested for meeting the +150 PF level. I know from personal experience as I attended all of those matches. And usually there were weight checks and functioning safeties tested. Some of those I conducted or supervised. Even if no thumb safety application is practiced at any WB match I've been in. good luck, GJ

WBAS Shb Pg 13 says "Thumb and grip safeties must function correctly" However, there is no procedure or requirement to check the safety for function. That would fall under Match Directors Discretion. I remember, years ago, at Winter Range, every shooter had to weigh their pistol, with and without mag, and show the safeties to be functional, on one stage. Haven't seen either of those in a long time.

Murphy says, "when you think they won't test PF, they will" good luck, GJ

I saw that language. The way I read it, if boots are worn they must conform to the rule that lists prohibited items. George Baylor wrote an article about Wild Bunch costuming that includes a photo of an army issued leather “walking shoe”. Not a boot, but legal under the general costuming language “typical of the late 19th and early 20th century”. See also the next sentence about “Edwardian period fashion” which would not be limited to boots.

In 15 years of building Wild Bunch guns, anything less than 16# give trouble; not returning to battery, not enough force to fully chamber with a full magazine, broken firing pin springs(which lead to firing pin stops falling out), etc… 16-17# have never failed to cycle fully. Never seen a dip when the slide closed. And this is with a lot of one handed shooters of the weaker persuasion. Seen plenty of dip when some jerk the trigger. Poor videography but this is with a 230 gr at 720-725 with 17# recoil and hammer springs. IMG_0973.mov

The benefit to a lighter weight bullet is to get more slide speed at the same power factor. 150 pf is pretty low for 45 Auto. I am going to try some 200 grain bullets this year for that same reason. I have had much better luck with round nose bullets in my 1911s, so if my 200 grain SWCs don't have the reliability I'm hoping for, I will be shooting a true 230 grain round nose bullet, which is historically what I've shot in Wild Bunch. I am going to be backing them down a bit as the ammunition I was shooting last year was loaded to ~170 pf. I had backed it down some from my typical load but I'm going to lighter springs and a significantly lighter load this year and dropping down to a 12.5 pound recoil spring. If you're shooting a stock 1911 with a 23 pound main and 16 pound recoil spring, you're going to want to load to a higher power factor, as the 1911 is designed for 195 power factor ammunition. I recommend the fastest powder you have in inventory, in this case, Titegroup, although many people say not to use it with coated bullets. I have not ever loaded Titegroup in anything so take this advice for what you paid for it. I was using Clays powder last year, I may continue to do that if I have enough left or switch to Clean Shot or WST.

Great advice above! I would also add, only load a few rounds, then test them in your gun. If all cycle well, THEN go back and mass produce. The last thing you want is 500+ rounds loaded and realize you have a problem in that particular 1911 and have to start pulling bullets. I have a new custom 1911 that simply won't cycle the ammo I use for my older 1911's. Totes

Not really. Can't think of anything I need.

Thanks Joe, this is great info!

It seems to me that, apart from deliberately choosing to wear a hair shirt, or perhaps as an exercise in willy-waving, if there is no reward/penalty for shooting Classic v. Modern, that Classic shooters are needlessly handicapping themselves with the use of larger bore rifles. I know that I am faster with a .38 than a .45 rifle. While that may be just me, in the consideration for the overall finish, I will have to consider that, moving forward. Great match, and a lot of fun! Cheers, FJT

I looked at the overall and the top cowboys and top cowboys. 8 classic shooters in the top 20 for men and 11 in the top 20 for the ladies. That doesn't appear to have made much difference, but it remains to be seen with more data.

But no one wants to shoot that. I mean, after a year of planning to shoot sub caliber guns and having the classic rules announced less than two months before, still a third more shot Classic. Maybe that’s what people want…

I've got pink on the front and lime green on the rear. 😄

Like Joe, I got rid of questionable brass years ago. With Wild Bunch loads, you should never have to worry about loose primer pockets. You’ll crush brass or lose it before primer pockets get loose.

Now if they colored the brass, say purple, when they had small primers - that would be fine 🙂

Joe, Chased all those rabbits and then some more. My statement still stands. JFN

AW & GJ sorry for the misunderstanding. I posted the above for information only. Since I shoot primarily small primer brass, I have been asked if there is a difference in velocity. While I felt that small primer brass lowered the velocity, I had never compared them side by side. My only fallacy in the test is that the primers are not all from the same manufacturer; as, I am now wondering if all Winchester primers are "hotter." So let me be clear. I don't feel the need nor compunction to justify a superior brass to you or anyone else. :) JFN