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Procedural for firing more rounds than required by the stage instructions.

Hmmm... the OP asked a question and received a very plausible answer in the first response. Unless you were involved in drafting either set of rules... it's just speculation on your part, and your speculation is just as valid as the next person's. Nothing to get worked up about. The earliest rule book I have digitized (1989), specifies that #4 shot is the largest allowable. Somewhere I have rule books from EOT in 1986 & the original SASS rule book from 1987. As I recall, both specify the same. So that rule pre-dates my earliest recollections in cowboy action. If that rule follows the trend of other rules, it's in place because someone use a larger shot size and created a real or perceived safety hazard. 'Nough said. I've used #7-½, 8 & 9 shot in both CAS and WB and haven't encountered a difference worth noting. The earliest WB Handbook I have digitized is from 2009, the first edition and specifies the largest size shot as #6. No explanation provided. GJ's speculation is certainly plausible. Maybe PM Happy Jack, as I seem to recall his being involved in drafting the initial WB rules. Or, at least an early member of the WBROC. Really? Differences of opinion are inevitable. Expressing varied opinions are what make us THINK. It's called communicating. And communicating is what makes a community. SASS is a big community... I don't know anyone that agrees with EVERYTHING... And if they do... I have to wonder they've ever had an independent thought?

Last year we had about $2500 in prizes and raffles. 2 guns, full rigs, bullets, glasses etc.... This year we have a Model 12, 3 wild bunch rigs, bullets, whiskey, eye glass gift certificates, knives, ar-500 targets, engraved items, coasters, gun cart personalized name plates, and a surprised hand autographed Tombstone poster signed by a cast member.... Sign up by May 10th for a Free t-shirt.

Please remove your email addy from your post. Scammers lurk here!! Reported just in case

I've been running 4.3 gr. of VV N320 with a 230 gr. Desperado Cowboy bullet. Won 2 Senior Traditional World Championships with it. One with an SR 1911 and one with a Colt. Must be doing something right. Marshal Stone

Before the shoot they were offering to check anyone that wanted their ammo checked. Two years ago they had a WB shooter prize of a Garmin chrono. Kid Rich won it. kR

This also includes the IAC 93/97. It is only legal in Wild Bunch. The original "93 IS NOT LEGAL. Marshal Stone

After reloading for the 45 Auto for 50+ years, without a checker of any sort, 1st on a RCBS Jr single stage, then since 1987 on a Dillon 550B, no problems to speak of*. Until WB came along, I'd only loaded two bullets in the 45 Auto. A H&G 68 for target work and Speers 4477 HP for SD. They simply worked in all 4 of my 1911s, a Gold Cup, surplus Navy issue Colt, a parts gun I built and a Combat Commander. This entire time I loaded using the same RCBS die set until I got the Dillon. So... in 1987 I began using a Dillon Carbide sizer, but the kept using RCBS seat/crimp die. Frankly, the 45 Auto is so easy to load for, it surprises me when folks have problems. Cases don't grow in length like a rifle cartridge, if anything, they get beat a little shorter, but that's never seemed to become a problem. I've never encountered a split case. When I put my Combat Commander on my "duty gun" list in 1982, the department armorer found an issue I'd been totally unaware of... Something he called "ramping"... Now, all of a sudden my carry gun could feed full wadcutters. I still somewhat haphazardly load my 45 Auto rounds... a 200 grain RFN in front of 4.3 grains of TiteGroup and a Winchester WLP yield ~800 fps for a PF of around 160. This load works a treat in my two Taylor's Tactical 1911s, a Rock Island, and the 4 mentioned above. They've all been "ramped", had the rails polished and run with oil. Most issues with the 1911 platform are with the magazines and operator. You simply cannot "limp wrist" one. While Tripp Research & Wilson Combat mags are probably the best, my CMC Shooting Star mags have served me well.** The worst issue with the 45 Auto is small primer cases. * Besides... ain't an occasional bump with the palm part of the standard "manual of arms" for the 1911? 😁 ** I don't care who the maker is... when folks walk on 'em... they're pretty much toast! So watch where you put your clodhoppers! Learn how to keep your magazines clean, follower straight and lips bent. I'm still using some military mags issued in the early '70s. With proper maintenance, they can last a lifetime. (Theirs, not yours, metal does fatigue).

Every reference to Shotgun modifications, found in the SHB pg. 18,19, state if found on the original firearm type. If there was a shroud and/or bayonet lug on an original Model 12, it's acceptable to install a new one.

Once again, and for the last time I hope, the 4 and 6 denote the LARGEST size allowed. Yes, most folk use 7.5 shot, more pellets on target. SASS said, when they made this rule, they wanted to reduce bounce/splatter. Simple as that. Find another rule to argue about

OK, using that logic, why use any time at all to make sure it is CLEAR, at the end of the stage?

What was the basis for that call?

I may not have the extensive shooting experience or resume of others on this thread, but, having timed it on numerous occasions, there is slightly more than a 1/2 second advantage for me on a 10 shot string, using my .38/357 rifle and loads. Over 10 stages that is quite significant. YMMV. Cheers, FJT

This is a forum, not an airport. There's no need to announce your departure.

Plenty of us are thrilled about allowing .38 rifles. Count me as one of them. I never shot Wild Bunch and had no intention of buying a bigger rifle just to do it. Now it's become one of my favorite shooting sports. The rule of .40 or larger never made any sense and the power factor means nothing. If anyone took their ball and went home because .38s get to play, there will be plenty to replace them.

Now,now, boys!!!

No No NO. If they want to shoot under 150, for rifle, shoot wild bunch aka mild bunch aka wild bunch lite. But the range/club should understand 150pf for pistol stays. period.dot. It's not the Rifle PF that kept shooters away from WB, it's the cost of the equipment. Just about everyone has, or had, access to a single stack 1911. It was the shotgun and large caliber rifle that scared, potential, shooters away. Not the rifle PF. Now that there is WB for those who don't have, or want to get, the shotgun and rifle, and Classic for those who do. Again, Rifle PF has nothing to do with it.

A lot of folks use it to ensure PF in case there's a challenge.

Yes, any shotgun legal for Cowboy or legal for WB. Any WB shotgun would have already been legal under the previous rules. Welcome to Wild Bunch. good luck, GJ

SHB Pg. 10. 4th line down. "Any firearm modification not referenced in this handbook is prohibited." So, nope.

Didn't find it? Then the modification of using an oversized mag release is illegal. Unless it's a completely internal modification, in which case it IS allowed. Now, the Traditional 1911 may have neither extended nor oversized release: And the Modern 1911 may have an extended release but not an oversized one: I'll take it that the question you had was about the Mag Release, not about the Thumb Safety that the title of the post seems to talk about. For that, the Traditional pistol uses only a standard Thumb safety. And the Modern can use an extended thumb safety. See same Pistol Modifications lists on page 13. Grip Safety follows the same pattern - standard grip safety nromally, but a oversized (beavertail) safety allowed on Modern guns. good luck, GJ

Hundo Shockbottle case gauges haven’t been available for some time now. bear Metal Design made this one to his specs for a reason. He happily allowed me to return it for a full refund including the costs. I replaced it with one from Armanov. Much more expensive but their stuff is first class!

Great match last year, we’ll be there again this year!

You, again, are wrong. The members suggest things to their TG's. The TG's discuss these suggestions and, if warranted, have clubs vote via the TG's. Then, if it's not a potential liability to SASS where HQ has to step in, the results of the vote are adopted. His suggestion, may or not be determined to be valid enough to warrant a club vote. Again, if you don't like SASS go somewhere else.

Well, yeah, according to SASS, he does make the rules. He’s a paid member and his vote to his TG should determine the rules. That being said, it really doesn’t matter what shooters want. SASS will do whatever they please.

I don't even think we should be allowing large birdshot. There's no reason and it's more danger because it retains more energy. I don't see how or why that turns into some sort of argument; you're simply reading something that isn't there.

I wanted to know if I was crazy so I asked ChatGPT. Excluding buckshot and non-toxic shot, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of all shotshells sold are 7 1/2 or smaller. I think 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 shells is pretty uncommon. 4 and 6 are not common or widely used outside of hunting. They're entirely banned from clay target fields. That they can be purchased at Wal-Mart doesn't tell me anything. I can buy and load #4 shot at Sportsman's any day of the week. It's never sold out because nobody wants it. If you don't consider that uncommon, choose your own word to describe it. There is not a widespread use for large, lead birdshot other than hunting of upland game large enough to require it, which I do not do, because I am a shooter, not a hunter.

Rabbit and squirrel hunting. 4 and 6 widely used even today.

You live in a strange and sheltered world if you think 4 and 6 shot shells are uncommon!!! I can buy them everywhere, even my local Walmart. They are the largest size shot allowed by SASS, pure and simple explanation. Your interpretation, or understanding means nothing to this rule.

Those are maximum shot size numbers.

MSV was called. There was discussion on how the pistol got into the position. Should be SDQ. As for the finger at the start. I had it pinned to the top front side of the trigger guard where it meets the frame. Totes

There is no rule about keeping the trigger finger off the trigger when initially charging the pistol. The only finger rule is; when changing mags, moving, correcting malfunctions. WBAS SHB Pg 14 "When handling the 1911, the shooter’s trigger finger must be outside the trigger guard when moving, reloading, or clearing a malfunction after the pistol is first charged." No call on the trigger finger. SDQ on the 1911 after the rifle smacked it, though.

Broke the 170, SDQ Hard to see at the start, what about the finger on the trigger while racking the slide?

Don't have my load data readily available but I've had great success with TightGroup.

7 in the top 10 were shooting .38s 12 in the top 20 were shooting .38s

Spent many years blacksmithing on steel. You hit a piece of steel 28 times x 20 shooters, the steel reacts differently than hitting it 8 times x 20 shooters. Don't believe it? Grab a piece of 3/8 steel, ar or not, and hit it 460 times and hit another 160 times. Then do this 12 more times. See what the steel tells you. Steel doesn't lie.

Really? Can you show me the numbers? EOT was the most attended. Landrun, when they actually accept WB will be next. Bordertown, for a side match, sells out.

Chapo, it seems you are correct about my assumptions from last night! I spent the afternoon at the range again and frankly, now I think the main problem is Limp Wrist syndrome. today, both handguns locked up on me multiple times using my reloads. But Wait it happened again when I used the commercial rounds and I noticed a more significant muzzle flip. As I’ve said in earlier posts, the 1911 is a brand new platform for me and getting data on my reloads led me to use a pistol rest such that I could position my Athlon chrono right under the muzzle. So I reloaded all of the bad rounds into a mag and assumed the correct position and my Ruger and then my Taurus ate every round and 150 more without another issue. As such, I apparently wasn’t necessarily supporting the pistol properly and noticed how much my wrist was flexing with the heavier recoil from the commercial loadsIt seems that this recoil operated monster can’t handle a limp wrist

Apples and oranges. Max fps is 1000 and 1400 for SASS. A 230 at 1000fps 28 times has more effect on the surface than a 200 at 1400 8 times. Basic metalurgy.

It's not a PF issue. The main reason SASS wanted an Open category, years ago, was to draw other, cowboy, shooters into WB. WB was not bringing in the revenue spent on awards etc. CAS shooters, who have now started shooting WB, didn't want to have to get a new rifle and shotgun. The cost of the guns for the amount of matches offered, didn't pencil out. So SASS had to change things up and, in so doing, eliminated the PF for all rifles to allow .38's to play. Add in the '87 and SxS shotgun, more shooters could afford to play WB. Enough WB shooters wanted the "big bore" rifles and pump shotgun, SASS decided to bring that back as "Classic". Kinda funny, if the "powers that were" had just allowed an "open" category, none of this would have ever happened. Rifle PF is only in Classic. As far as clubs using rifle PF as a reason to not shoot WB, I say BS. 150pf for pistol is more damaging to a target, because of 28+ rounds vs 7-10, it's just a reason they want to complain.

Yours were edited because you were wrong, called out on it and then you edited them. You do remember I have screen shots of your original posts….

All it takes is one SASS Sanctioned Match to start it and watch it snowball.

Bring all rifle power factor back to 150

Because it would be real obvious…

Better than that full bottles on our raffle prize table. The double oak is like 102 proof and smooth, very good.

From several thousands of rounds of testing, a 230 grain at 725 fps is faster shot to shot than a 200 grain at 800+. The gun stays down and is less snappy.

Can’t make up rifle or pistol…

Clays if you have it available there? I think it feels softer than WST but some will argue the other way. Shot 1000’s and 1000’s of 230 gr bullets on top of 3.9 of clays for USPSA. I would guess 3.4-3.6 would make a nice Wild Bunch load. Clays has not been available here for a couple years so I switched to WST. LF.