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Howdy Wild Bunch Shooters, By now you should have been contacted by your TG with information about Cowboy and Wild Bunch category changes. End of Trail has decided to offer ALL of the new categories for 2026. The new Cowboy category of Shootist (90 years old +) already has one entrant. If you are not already signed up, you can submit an online application choosing El Ray as your category and then send Sunshine Kay an email asking to change to Shootist. Your birthday must be on or before 2/26/1936. You may also email her and request an email application that you can fill out and mail in with your payment. ALL of the new Wild Bunch categories will now be offered. The existing Open and Ladies categories of Modern and Traditional will have age new designations of Senior (60-69) and Elder Statesman/Grand Dame (70+). Sunshine Kay will be contacting already registered 60-65 year olds and 70+ year olds to ask if they want to stay in their original category or switch to the new one. If you sign up online please pick any category and then email her with your changed category. Four new Wild Bunch categories have been added: Classic Traditional in Open and Ladies, and Classic Modern in Open and Ladies. All four will also be offered in Junior, Senior, and Elder Statesman/Grand Dame in addition to the base category. The Classic categories will return the firearms and power factor conventions that were in effect prior to the last change: Power factor of at least 150, .40 caliber or greater rifle, and pump shotguns of the Winchester 1897/Model 12 type. Sunshine Kay will be sending emails to all currently registered WB shooters informing them of how to change to the new Classic categories if they want. If you don’t hear from her in the next couple of days, feel free to send her an email. As in the above, if you are not registered yet, just pick a category and email her your category change. PLEASE NOTE: We have already ordered awards for the 2026 match. We will make every attempt to add awards for categories as they meet the minimum number of shooters. However, we may not have awards in hand for the Awards Ceremony for all the new categories. We will have stand-in awards for pictures and will ship you your award as soon as it arrives. We hope that our adoption of these new categories, although late in the year, will increase your enjoyment of End of Trail and make it more fun for all. Sunshine Kay’s email is Register@EndofTrail.org5 points
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5 points
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The chrono procedures and guidelines as well as other info on weighing bullets etc. WAS in the Older MD guides. I know I wrote them.5 points
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5 points
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Mine is. Just about every male WB Shooter I know is in the back. Makes it easier to place you holster and mag pouches.5 points
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4 points
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We don't need more categories we just need to keep traditional as such, allowing the new commers that don't have the 45 1911 nor the 40 cal rifle to enter through the modern category. Once they get the flavor they will want to move up to the bigger bore. Please talk to your WBTG4 points
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In my view we should keep traditional with the 45 ACP 1911 and the 40 plus caliber rifle and not move it down to the 83 cal rifle and or the 9mm 1911 pistol. The lighter power factor reduces recoil and presents an unfair advantage against the traditional 45 ACP or Colt and its power factor. I agree we need to bring more participants over to wild bunch and I would rather see us allow the 38 rifle and the 9mm 1911 as part of the modern category. This would allow new shooters to get their feet wet in the sport and decide if they want to move over to traditional. We don't need more categories we just need to keep traditional as such, allowing the new commers that don't have the 45 1911 nor the 40 cal rifle to enter through the modern category. Once they get the flavor they will want to move up to the bigger bore.4 points
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Who knew the rule changes a couple years ago wouldn’t work and they would have to bring back the old rules? Oh, wait! Everyone but the ones making the rules…3 points
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No filler. BAMM is not THAT much a precision shooting match. Besides, the use of any filler with a shouldered case and smokeless powder is strongly DISCOURAGED by Lyman and Hodgdon. Can lead to ringed chambers, and they don't really understand why. good luck, GJ3 points
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I'm right handed, I thought the belt was for a lefty but it's not. It's designed to be buckled in the back which up until I put my 2023 state championship buckle on it, I didn't like that. Now I can buckle it in the back with almost no trouble with the new buckle on it. I've spent some time drawing and doing mag changes and wow this is so much better than the rig I made from old duty gear I've been using for 5 years! I've cut 2-3 seconds off my mag change times! Man I love this set up!3 points
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Now if they colored the brass, say purple, when they had small primers - that would be fine 🙂3 points
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2 points
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I think this is just an example of the lack of an Oxford comma rendering a sentence confusing. WBAS does not allow 1911s in any cartridge except God's, 45 Auto.2 points
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2 points
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From the announcement 3. Teddy Roosevelt and Doughboy will no longer be official WBAS Main match categories. They will be moved back to WBAS Side match status. What could have been stated is that because some ranges are not able to accommodate the required distances, clubs are not obligated to offer Teddy Roosevelt and Doughboy. Doing so allows clubs the option2 points
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WHY??? Are they also going to eliminate Doughboy?2 points
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My 03A3 with the loads I described has basically zero recoil. What is the rifle, 9 pounds? A 185 grain bullet at 1600 fps is at beast a glorified .357 Magnum.2 points
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I load 18 grains of Alliant 2400 and a bullet, no filler. I've loaned the rifle to numerous people who won the matches shooting against me, so I can share that not only has it worked very well, it's worked very well at making me take 2nd place to my own friends with my own rifle.2 points
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Is SASS Wild Bunch Action Shooting really Cowboy Action Shooting with a 1911? My introduction to the 1911 was with my local SASS clubs, High Plains Drifters and ROOP. I was new to SASS and was really enjoying the change from IDPA. My local clubs arranged to have Sutter Lawman teach a local Wild Bunch RO class. This was 10+ years ago. I recall him stating several times that WB is NOT Cowboy with a 1911. Towards the end of the course, he mentioned that he was working with the WB Committee for a rule change. Currently the WB magazines were limited to holding only FIVE rounds. Evidently when WB started it was a side match using the stages from Cowboy, therefore five rounds to match Cowboy stage descriptions. Hmmm, sounds like Cowboy with a 1911 to me? Soon after the WB Committee did change the round count from five to the current seven. Ah, I am thinking, breaking away from Cowboy **. Ok, enough of the history lesson. Two years ago, SASS was very concerned about the profitability of Wild Bunch. There were many opinions, as far as I am concerned it does not matter. There was/is a goal to increase participation, GREAT!!!! My thoughts. Retain the WB Category structure of several years ago and create a new category, “Open”. In Open category any caliber 1911 is allowed. Any Cowboy rifle and shotgun are allowed (including Model 12). Power factor of 150 for both pistols and rifle. What??? Yes, 150. 38’s (.357) are available at 158+ grains and higher which keeps speed below 1000 fps, also 9 mm at 160 grains (Bear Creek & Bayou). This keeps with the concept that Wild Bunch is NOT Cowboy with a 1911. For those shooters that want to shoot their 105 grain 38 SPL, I say this is "Wild Bunch, NOT Cowboy with a 1911" **. What another category??? Noooooo you say!! OK then using the above suggestion for power factor allow 9mm and any legal cowboy long gun in the Modern Category. Return Traditional to the way it was several years ago, 40 caliber and higher, pump shotgun. Still not convinced, very sad I say **. At least LEAVE Traditional alone as it is NOT Cowboy with a 1911. You want Cowboy with a 1911 then mess with Modern. My suggestions do not EXCLUDE anyone and retains some history of SASS Wild Bunch Action Shooting. ** BTW from slide #4 of the WBAS course: However, there are distinct differences between the 2 disciplines, and it is important to remember that WBAS was not developed to be, nor is it to be presented as “CAS with a 1911”.2 points
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I'm curious how many folks have actually lightened their pistol loads. My guess, is some but not most. Granted, some new WB shooters may be starting with a lighter load as I've seen some new folks have 1911 cycling issues. IMHO, Rifle is not the gun that determines matches. For me, I'd bet my .38 rifle and .45 rifle are only a few tenths different in a 10 shot string. I have yet to see a SxS at any WB matches I have shot since the change. Are Power Factor rule changes actually making any measurable difference in the game? I honestly don't know. The rule changes don't seem to prevent anyone from participating the exact same way they did before the change. Is it the position on the scoresheet that has folks upset? Shooting my .38 rifle sure didn't raise me up on any scoresheets, but it makes reloading for my wife and I easier and cheaper. Totes2 points
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Winchester Mdl 25 Hummm . . . . Been reading and pondering this thread for a few day now and still somewhat confused. Also have been shootin' WB for a long time. Quite frankly, NEVER heard of a Winchester Mdl 25. Of course, that should not mean anything to anybody. I don't know a lotta things about many things. I liked it after looking it up. Less parts to fail than the Winchester 97 has. I am puzzled why shooting this particular Model of a Winchester scattergun should make any difference to anyone in WB?? The Winchester 97 is allowed in WB. The 97, apparently, is allowed to be used in WB with both the take-down and solid frame models. Did not find anything in the WB Handbook about not using the solid frame 97. In my past, I have used all of my 97's for WB. All 4 of the Winchester 97's I own have been modified to take 6 shells as the 2 Norinco's I have. Have used them all before diving into the 3 Winchester Mdl 12's that I now have. What difference should the Winchester Mdl 25 make to anyone if used? I am confused with the 'must be approved' discussion. J.J.1 point
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Yes, it is legal but if you want a solid trigger with no screw, I can help. I’ve always hated the screw. There are better ways.1 point
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Oakwood Outlaws in TX offer those categories as part of their Monday matches. The folks that regularly shoot the Monday match usually get together and pick which category they want to emphasize to create more friendly competition. I am retiring at the first of the year and plan to take advantage of their 3 day monthly matches. For those like me that live a little far away they have a bunkhouse and RV spaces for a nominal fee. That way I can make attending the match like a mini vacation.1 point
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Point 1 - as far as I have followed the two categories, match directors have restricted ammo to lead bullet only so as to not require clubs to put AR500+ armor steel targets at 100 or more yards. Both the steel and the land is expensive. Point 2 - lead bullet ammo can be made to shoot real well from 1400 up to 1800 FPS or so with little difficulty, and hold accuracy of 2 to 3 MOA over at least 200 yards. Going beyond that requires a fair amount of understanding and testing. Up until about 1895, all rifles shot lead bullets (and black powder, even). good luck, GJ1 point
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Adding the model 25 is not in the per view of the ROC, as it would not be a clarification. That would be a rule change, and it would require a TG vote or a mandate from SASS. Marshal Stone1 point
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That is correct. The 25 was introduced as a lower cost model 12, by being not takedown. Everything else is the same. Contact you TG to have it put on the next agenda or brought to the ROC for clarification1 point
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The pdf document you get from the email has an error with the first change "1. Minimum pistol weight for the 1911 will be changed to 43 ounces." The document above has the correct text in that it is "Maximum weight" just an fyi1 point
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Probably not this year.1 point
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There ya go! Mernickle makes good kit. Now, get to the range and get after it! Cheers, FJT1 point
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Jodi, When I try the link, it indicates that the domain has expired. Is there another way to get to the site? If you would, email a copy of the entry. Don Jorge1 point
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The concern for the powerfactor is more about the timers. Wild Bunch stage writing has a leg up in that previously we could shoot stages ending on the rifle. In wide open stages/ranges it has been found to be inconsistent timer pick up of rifle shots, especially as we see .38 rifles with a lower report than .22s. A consistent PF also makes use of KD targets easier for a MD to calibrate. I would say that moving rifle targets back makes low PF self correcting, but we are in a thread about Cowboy with 1911.1 point
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Well picked up a William's receiver sight for the Savage. Holes match up in the receiver, so tomorrow I'm going to mount it on the rifle, even though it's still on layaway! Pics once mounted.1 point
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1 point
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Great policy for you. Won't help grow the game, though, if you have any concern there. Won't help keep older folks shooting as joint pain creeps into their lives. And gets SASS into a nanny role on reloading. good luck, GJ1 point
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And, that's the reason for the change. Gets more folks shooting.1 point
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Easy mistake I think. I don't often see mens belts buckle in back. But there are some!1 point
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1 point
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Thinking the belt is buckled on your backside and the holster is supposed to be placed next to t he shotgun shell holders. Could be wrong. Been wrong before, will be wrong again. However, it is a nice looking rig. J.J.1 point
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Try using shorter shells - 2 1/2 or less. B*P has had (10 years ago) a light load with a 2.5" shell. Or reload for a short shell. good luck, GJ (Six shotshells, each saving 1/2 inch, saves you a total of 3" - enough for that 6th round to fit!)1 point
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