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I guess I will stir the pot a bit with some history. I don't know how many times over the years I was reminded that "SASS and CAS is in the Entertainment Business NOT in the Shooting business". People who do well are happy and that makes for good business. That has always been the driving force and it still is today. A number of years age I was approached by The General, The Judge, and Coyote and they wanted to add another thing to SASS since it was not highly thought of in the shooting world. They tasked me with making Wild Bunch Action Shooting, which was to be a Real Shooting Sport, as well as enjoyable within the general SASS guidelines. So I created WBAS as a Shooting Sport. I had a lot of great help over the years making it go. The early years most of the EOT stages were written by Pecos Clyde (a great guy who introduced the Model 12 SG to WBAS) Then the stage writing was taken over by Texas Jack Morales (one of my heroes). It was 7? of 8? years before we had the first shooter shoot EOT clean!!! NOBODY complained to us. Those shooting WBAS enjoyed the more challenging sport. We had retired operators who were glad to help new shooters learn how to "run a 1911". I produced the training video on WBAS for Holy Terror. We tried really hard to make it a shooting sport. WBAS was NEVER intended to be like CAS with a 1911. Sadly, IMHO the sport has begun drifting away from the founding principles in recent years. Just a bit of history for those who are interested. Humbly Presented, Happy Jack SASS 20451 Life Patron Regulator CAS was a lot different when WBAS was started. Aerial SG targets, Reloads on the clock for pistols and rifles, and various more difficult target engagements were common even at the biggest matches (regionals, EOT) so for most CAS shooters moving to WBAS was a lot easier than today.

Howdy Griff, From the TG meeting I have attended it was agreed that a good TO could pick up a .22 rifle so the rifle being the last firearm shot should not be an issue. So "get rid of rifle not last rule?" Jim

Well I do have to thank y’all for bring up the question of 1911 gun weight. You made me open up the safe, one of them at least, and weigh a bunch of guns. Weighed a total of 32 guns, and then stopped as there was no need to go further. I have pictures of all these on the scale, no point in posting them here and taking up a bunch of space. Unless y’all want visible proof. But I do appreciate the photo’s that all have posted, I like looking at other guns. Prior to weighing every gun I verified my scale with two 50 gram certified weights, for a total of 100 grams. Scale hit 100 gram’s every time, except twice, it read 101 grams. I’m not concerned with a .035 ounce error. And it would be on the heavy side. I weighed a total of 12 traditional guns. Six that I built and six commercial guns. Of the 12 traditional guns only one failed weight testing. It was one I built and it has Woolly Mammoth Ivory grips on it. They are very heavy. This gun failed by .4 ounce. These grips weigh in at 2.8 ounces. They are actually heavier then a Tripp 7 round mag, which only weighs 2.4 ounces. So I could easily get the weight down. It’s my wife’s gun and she loves the grips. Only uses this gun locally. At any major shoot, she’s using a Springfield Armory, which weigh’s in at 38.3 ounce with a Tripp mag inserted. Of the commercial traditional guns weighed. Two Springfields, two colts and two Rock Island Armory’s. The heaviest was an old Springfield SS gun at 39.7 ounce with an OEM mag. All others were at least 1.5 ounces under the 40 ounce limit, with a Tripp mag. Onto Modern guns. 20 guns were weighed, 10 built be me. Commercial were six Les Baer’s, two Kimber and two Wilson. Only three failed the weight of 42 ounces, again all three I built. Two have Damascus steel slides on them, which are much heavier then the forged slides of Caspian and Les Baer. And the Damascus was only 42.2, and these have Mammoth grips also. The last one weighed a whopping 43.3 ounce, but it had the Mammoth grips and a Trijicon SRO red dot on it. So does not count. All other modern guns fell well within the 42 ounce with an empty 7 round mag. I looked at the Wilson web site and none of their guns are listed over 42 ounces, empty. And their empty is with a 8 round mag with a base pad. Now I understand we will run into problems with scales used not being calibrated/verified, but that is critical. When we are only talking about few ounces, you need to verify the scale with certified weights, not just start increasing weight limit’s on the gun.

IMO, it's just being inconsiderate of everyone that has been using the large primer 45Auto brass for decades. So yep, user name fits. Folks using the small primer brass are simply making it harder for those set up for large primer 45Auto to reload. Brass is not cheaper. I haven't found anywhere that sells new, unprimed small primer brass, and those that sell used brass charge the same, whether small or large primer. I will not return your brass to you, when it winds up in my brass bag, I put it in my scrap brass bin and sell it. In my view, small primer 45 Auto brass is probably the brain child of some "anti-gun" engineer who thought it a great way to infuriate gun folks. Very much how I feel about Hodgdon and its Pyrodex rusting agent that burns.

Just wanted to give a shoutout to Boggus Deal. I sent him a model 12 to install his firing pin, springs ect, ect…. Gun was smooth and functioned well before I sent it, what I got back was even better. Shot a match this morning and it did not disappoint. If your thinking about getting some work done I wouldn’t hesitate to send it to Boggus, think you will be pleased with the results. LF.

We are looking for new wild bunch shooters to shoot in the best value wild bunch state championship match in the country in Saginaw Michigan. $80.00 entry fee gets you 10 stages over two days, side matches, awards pictures in front of our sepia professional backdrop, awards for many extra categories, team event, drone videos, media coverage, lunch and a dinner. First 20 that sign up get a $200.00 gift certificate to Hunters Gold eye glasses Thanks to our sponsors------ if you would like to sponsor shoot me a message 1911 Pistols your choice one of two available (donated by Flat Water Johnny) Bond Derringer .357 donated by Bond Mernickle holsters- full wild bunch rig right or left handed you chose Michigan Rattler leather- 1911 holster and 2 slides custom made left or right handed custom made saginaw shoot out coaster sets www.1848customboards.com Hunters gold eye glasses $400.00 gift certificate real silver badge made by hand out of a Mexican silver coin hand engraved by Truckee https://www.facebook.com/laramie.butters Redbeard Bullets- 1000 .38 and 1000 45 lead bullets Many $50.00 Sass and wild west mercantile gift certificates Numerous other prizes bought by Saginaw Field and Stream Lock Stock and Barrel auctions- shooter bag gifts for everyone Ruger- shooter bag gifts for everyone Free T-Shirt if you sign up by Sept 1 Overall man and Overall woman each receive a MOLLYS buckle Camping next to our lake is available application is available on our face book page https://www.facebook.com/Saginawcowboyshooting Previous media coverage by mlive

I've found that the small primer .45 AUTO brass is the brainchild of several of the companies who wanted to make non-toxic .45 practice ammo for police departments (who often shoot on poorly ventilated indoor ranges, and buy the vast majority of non-toxic pistol ammo). But, they were having a HARD time making non-toxic large primers - they just had lousy reliability. So, someone got a real stupid idea to go against the 100 year old SAAMI, mutually-agreed upon, shooting industry guidelines that .45 AUTO needs to be large pistol primed, and started making small primer pockets to hold the non-toxic small pistol primers that were easier to make reliable than the large primer size. So, it was a combination of errors. PD's which would not upgrade their ranges with suitable ventilation to meet OSHA standards, government entities that refused funding to upgrade local departments and larger ranges to meet current air quality standards, and companies making primers who still have not figured out how to make non-toxic large pistol primers reliably. But if someone has more recent intelligence on this situation, I'd like to hear it. GJ

With all due respect to the folks who got this ball rolling - a lot of people did complain about the old EoT matches. I appreciate all that was done to get this WB thing going - I actually enjoy it more than CAS (I know - Sacrilege!) (and I don't want to dumb down WB to the point of silliness, either!)- but I was on the ground, shot the matches, did pretty well, - and heard a lot of complaining. I heard it again, at the 2025 EoT WB match. No match is ever going to make everyone happy (well, maybe except the European championships, but they add a little bit more post-game liquor to the proceedings...) - but only one clean shooter marks a pretty tough match. To keep the people coming back is a big part of the challenge of SASS. Like politics, the best you can hope for is to make MOST of the people happy, most of the time. Then, the audience will let you know. And, judging from the grumbles I heard, they may want to tweak the match a bit. I hope they do; I'll shoot the match however it is configured - but I want the sport to survive and thrive, as well. Cheers, FJT

Boggus is Da Man for model 12's Marshal Stone

My home club, Hooten Old Town Regulators in McKee Kentucky, have been thinking about working with SASS to hold a Kentucky state Wild Bunch Championship. Our biggest concern is interest. We have very low turnout for our Wild Bunch matches. So we would like to gauge interest with the Wild Bunch community, especially with Kentucky folks, to see if this idea is worth pursuing. Thanks for your time. Youngson

Tomorrow, August 15th at 10:00 am Arizona Time (use Google if you’re not sure), End of Trail registration will open. Online registration and printable applications will be available on the EOT website HERE . Speed and Long Range matches are still free to competitors and conventioneers, however this year there is an area to indicate your intention to participate. We are asking for this to make sure that we have an adequate number of volunteers to staff all of the events. Please indicate if you are CONSIDERING shooting the side matches in the space provided. Thank you for your continued support as we work to bring you the best World Championship matches ever. See you in February!

Or Hornady brass that's shorter than everybody else's!

This was a very nice Wild Bunch match with lots of shooting and good Wild Bunch distances. Sarsaparilla Groz wrote some fine stages. The venue is tremendous, Powder Creek Shooting Park. We had a Great posse and everyone helped out, making for an efficient, smooth match.

They get pretty crudded up. The plunger gets kind of sticky. I would remove the safety button, plunger and spring and give them all a good cleaning.

Ramrod: That kind of avoids the question. Can you be more specific? Wild Bunch has adapted quite a bit over the last 15 years or so. All in keeping with the idea of attempting to make it enjoyable and yet different than CAS which has adapted significantly in its 40+ year history. I have a video of EOT from 1992 and its unrecognizable with what is shot today. I'm not shooting much anymore but I do feel a real answer to the question asked is reasonable.

Save the date - we will be updating the website later with applications, etc... https://saginawfieldandstream.com/ Check us out and add us on http://www.facebook.com/Saginawcowboyshooting 2025 Michigan State Wild Bunch Championship will be held Sept 27 and Sept 28 at Saginaw Field and Stream Club close to Hemlock/Saginaw, MI. "Saginaw Showdown" will be an epic Wild Bunch match showcasing our banquet facility on-site, our lake, camping area, new AR 500 targets and new shooting bays. We look forward to seeing all the new and experienced wild bunch shooters out here. Remember we practice wild bunch every Wednesday starting the last week of April until first week of November from 5:00pm until dusk. We also shoot a wild bunch match after every cowboy match.

Raffle and prize table give aways are over $2500.00 now. FIrst 20 that sign up get a $200.00 gift certificate to hunters gold and that is not included in the $2500 of giveaways and raffles...

Fits and works perfectly. Having broken both stock and titanium pins this design is much better for our game.

Hey @Rooster Ron Wayne 86029 I know you are new here and so you are maybe new to Wild Bunch and, well, I hate to tell you this, but even if you manage to get somebody to chamber a 1911 in 44 Special for you, you won't be allowed to use it for Wild Bunch. Sorry 'bout that. But on a positive note, your 44 Special rifles are just fine. 😄

@Dutch D. Moderator New SASS Wire member Sun Of Nun has posted on the SASS Wire that he is unable to get signed up here. Here is what he posted: I am trying to contact a member over there (San Antonio Seymour) about a rifle he has up for sale.. I have tried registering and it seems to be broken. No confirmation email.. and the Captcha isn't working either? If anyone knows that member or can some how get him a message that would be extremely appreciated. ~ OR ~ If anyone knows the admin over there to help me get an account working that would also be appreciated. Thanks a lot! this is the actual discussion on the SASS Wire: https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/topic/388999-little-help-on-wildbunch-forum I did send a PM to San Antonio Seymour asking if he still has that rifle (unlikely). thanks, Abilene

Wilson frame and slide. Full length guide rod. All steel parts except trigger and stocks. 2 lbs 7.3 oz.

I'm glad didn't actually bet on that...lol...

Wilson 1911s are too heavy for any wb category. A buddy weighed his for me @ 43.9 with a mag. My rock island (yes a know it has hogue laser grips, it's not a WB gun) it weighs 42.29 with a mag. So all I'm I'm asking is just add 2 ounces to the 1911 for both categories to alleviate the chance of someone unknowingly using an illegal gun. We're allowing carbon fiber magazine tubes on 38cal 60pf rifles and now there's an article in the chronicle about allowing semi automatic rifles in WB soo what's 2 ounces on a 1911?

A Traditional Colt at 2lb 6 oz even.

Holy crap! I ordered a postal scale from Amazon and weighted it... I never would have guessed it weighed this much!! I just ordered an aluminum mainspring housing from hogue. It's not overweight but so close I don't want to take a chance someone's scale is off in case it ever does get weighed.

Yes it's chrome. I wish it was only nickel so it wouldn't look like the bumper from a 58 Buick but it was a gift, not a lot of people buy me guns for gifts and I love it!

I mailed in my application.

Me? No. I never did. You make inflammatory claims about a guy’s gun then get butt hurt when you get called out on it. Do you need clarification? Every manufacturer today has some caveat in their manuals about reloads, even your pet Colt’s. Have for years. And likely, every one here already knows that. For you to come here and act like his Iver Johnson is inferior because so is unnecessary.

https://sassnet.com/resources/cowboy-chronicle Click on the July 2025 link, or you can read it here! . Hopefully, it'll give you a taste of the current state of the game, at the World Championship level! Cheers, FJT JulyChronGO2025-2.pdf

Someone who makes their living shooting. Marshal Stone

Do people still need to know who SASS #4 is to register? Maybe not, since that wasn't mentioned.

One of the positives of this forum and the cowboy forum being different is here you can send pics in the private messages. You can’t do that on the cowboy wire.

Looks like they've got the right guy in front of this. Thanks, Dutch. Cheers, FJT

;D bogus, I do know that the small primer is consistent, in stopping my 650 :o. Dusty

I bet not. With empty magazine, 2 lbs 6.2 ounces.