Winchester Model 12 Problem(s)

[JJ]

Hello Everyone -

 

A few weeks ago I purchased a Winchester Model 12. It is an older scattergun manufactured in the middle 1920's. It appears to have been hunted quite a bit but shot very little. The action is tight and the gun cycles very nice. The inside parts appear to have very little much wear and the barrels inside looked like a mirror.

 

So here's the problem - When cycling shells into the chamber 'occasionally' a shell when lifted from the feed tube will catch itself on the outside right edge of the right side of the shell and hang up on front edge the port leading into the scattergun's chamber. I hope I have explained this correctly. This issue was videoed yesterday when test firing a couple of boxes of shells. In slow motion it was quite noticeable. I wish I knew how to post the video here. This problem happens with both factory and reloaded shells.

 

Interestingly enough a friend of mine also purchased a Model 12 manufactured in the same era. Yesterday while test firing the scatterguns he encountered the exact same problem.

 

For all of you guys that are way much more knowledgeable than us, any insight here would be a great help. We are both hoping for a fix that we can accomplish ourselves. If not who do we send them to for 'whatever'?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice any may be able to offer us.

 

J.J.

[Goatneck]

Let me explain your issue.  Winchester designed the mod 12 carrier to lift the shell from the magazine to the chamber and then the bolt would drive the shell into the chamber. In some instances the shell could hang up slightly before being chambered.  They designed a solution to correct the problem.  Winchester added a Flag to the carrier which did solve the problem.  Now the issue is some Model 12 have a Flag and some do not.  Even the late model 12's a large number were produced without a flag.  The solution to the problem would be find a carrier with the flag and install the part.  They are very hard to source and expensive and you need the correct one for your shotgun.  There are different types of flags and carriers.  The other solution is to have an action Job done by a qualified gunsmith that can correct the problem

 

Goatneck

[Garrison Joe]

Some shooters find that when their Model 12 does this, they can avoid a "bump during chambering" by keeping the gun tilted left about 10 degrees (receiver-top-to-the-shooter's-left) and let gravity keep the shell aligned with the chamber.  It does get old after a while, always trying to remember to do that.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

[JJ]

I want to thank you two guys for your posts.

 

Both answers are a great help. Now if I would have accomplished my due diligence early this morning, with just a little searching on this forum, I could have had an answer without bothering you guys,

 

Just one other question (loaded question) - who is a good person to send off this/these scattergun(s) for an action job?

I/we have absolutely no idea on this.

 

A PM is just fine.

 

J.J.

[Happy Jack]

Goatneck Gunsmithing in TX is the man !!!!

[J. Frank Norfleet]

Goatneck

 

[Boggus Deal]

I would also make sure the extractors in the bolt are clean and working properly. I find that I don’t need the flag Goatneck refers to but if I had Model 12 issues, my gun would get shipped to him to get fixed. I haven’t seen anyone “tilting” the guns one way or another but what do I know.

[Baltimoreed11754]

I build 2 inch 12 ga shells that allow my 6 round altered 1897s and M12 to hold 7 in their mags. I started tinkering with them a couple of years ago out of curiosity but they do work. The only gamer thing that I do. But I have noticed my M12 doing this trick and attributed it to my shorties but now I know it’s gun related not ammo related. I have tried to train myself to tilt the sg to the left slightly during the chambering action. Sometimes I can run it smooth and other times I hiccup. Doesn’t seem to have any other issues. If you look in cascity WB forum ‘7rds in a magazine approved by WB committee’ thread I describe them.

[Boggus Deal]

Baltimore, as I mentioned earlier, I haven’t seen a need to tilt the gun. If anything, I probably tilt mine in the wrong direction by accident. If you’re running into chambering issues, it’s likely other problems. I’ll see if I have video of how a Model 12 should work.

I have looked at the cascity site. Unfortunately, there is way too much misinformation over there, regarding WBAS and SASS. It’s worse than the SASS Wire, which is full of people who haven’t shot a SASS match in years, if ever.

[Lawman Mark II]

A thorough cleaning has cured more than one issue for me over the years, in both Model 12s and Model 97s.