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New powder?


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Since it appears Trailboss will never be returning to the market, what is a good powder to switch to for 45acp/45colt? I have been using TB for both since I started reloading for SASS/WB and have never used anything else so I'm a little anxious about switching powders and don't know what's comparable to TB... Thanks!

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Many powders will support your switch over.   There is no powder closely comparable to Trail Boss, because of it's extremely fluffy consistency.   But it's at the root a quick burning pistol cartridge powder.  Many of those are around.

Red Dot comes to mind first.   Win Super Target (WST) is a long time, proven, highly accurate powder in the .45 auto.   And it works in the .45 Colt cartridge too.   Clay Dot is often available and will do anything that Red Dot can.  And any of these three powders load a very nice WB 12 gauge shotshell, too.  And if needed, probably another 15 powders on the market will do yeoman's duty.   231 and TiteGroup and Unique will work well, as well.

Very little need for anxiousness about not having any great choices available.  Better to pay attention to what powder(s) you can get most reliably, in case the next few years are anything like the last 3 years.   And several periods of time before that.

good luck, GJ

 

 

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5 hours ago, Garrison Joe said:

There is no powder closely comparable to Trail Boss, because of it's extremely fluffy consistency.

Objection, there's (at least) one. RS14 from Reload Swiss was introduced end of last year. But I don't know if it is already or ever will be internationally available, though the website lists USA and other countries. RS powders are made by Nitrochemie Wimmis. They produced some powders for other brands like Alliant and Hodgdon in the past. So RS14 may come to your market by a different name and brand. With Trail Boss gone, there should be some buyers!

I am using 5.2gr of RS14 for my .45 Colt pistol loads with a powder coated 230gr RN bullet. I am happy with it, but load it for pistols only because of it's price tag, it's absurdly expensive! There are only 400 gram (ca. 0.88 lbs) containers available for 92 Swiss Francs, that's about 102 USD. As I don't shoot that much CAS I bite this bullet. Before, I was loading Vihtavuori N32C (Tin Star), but that is like TB no longer produced. RS14 is REACH compliant which is a European regulation. I hope (and assume) it is also compliant with international chemical standards.

Something to read about RS14:

https://www.reload-swiss.com/en/reload_swiss/produkte/rs20_pistol_powder/rs14_rifle_pistol_powder/index.php

https://www.reload-swiss.com/en/reload_swiss/tipps___tricks/tipps_und_tricks_neu_1/einfuehrung_rs14/index.php

Here's some loading data (there's a lot more calibers on their web site):

RS14_data_en.thumb.JPG.b46ecf15615a009e7987e4ab3c36b115.JPG

 

Equanimous Phil

 

Edited by Equanimous Phil
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I haven't had the chance to try it yet in 45acp, but have heard decent feedback on "Shooter's World Cleanshot" obtainable from Scarlett @ Scarlett's bullets. Comes with a hug too and she and her husband are great supporters of CAS.

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Thanks for the data on RS14 powder!

Well, RS14 has a couple things not going for it.

Haven't heard of anyone in USA carrying it, distributing it, etc. 

"absurdly expensive" - yeah, that is surely what I'd want to shoot action pistol with.  One big reason I never used TB.

The 300 Blackout shooters may want to pay that and search for that.  I understand they were the ones driving the prices on the last supplies of TB out through the roof in the last year.

 

SO many other good choices available to US shooters.

good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe
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I guess those special powders like TB and RS14 are a good choice for casual reloaders like me because they're quite fail-safe. When I am not figuring out a new load I have a reloading session only about every other month, so there's quite a lack of routine. As we have only one active CAS club here in Switzerland I maybe use 1500 pistol rounds a year for the couple of shoots I attend and a few training sessions (no, I will never get really fast...). That equals 2 bottles of RS14 at max per year. For the rifle I load a higher PF and use VV N320. And I still buy factory 9mm which I shoot the most by far (IPSC).

Probably the vast majority on such forums are experienced reloaders, shoot large amounts of ammo and maybe are loading for other family members, too. Then you have to think more economically, of course.

I wonder what the price tag of RS14 will/would look like in the US, because if you have competitors prices are dictated by the market.

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I've had good results with Shooters World Clean Shot (Lovex D032-03) in .45ACP. It meters very consistently and has produced very consistent velocities that are at least as good as I've had with WST. I think I'll still default to WST when I can find it, but Clean Shot has been great and is relatively available.

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  • 1 month later...

I recently switched 45 colt from TB to red dot. Using bullseye for 45 ACP with Clean Shot as a back up.

 

Would not recommend even trying Clean Shot for the 45 Colt at WB PF. It does not like the extra case volume and changes its mind with every shot how it's going to react to it. Smaller cases, it works well.

Edited by Artemus
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Only thing I noticed with Cleanshot in my 45C, is that it leaves a yellow/gold fouling in the barrel at CAS velocity anyway. I also use C45S cases in my pistols and can see the yellow stuff come out the barrels! Otherwise it has been 100% consistent in these light loads. 5gr. in my 45C w/200gr. pill & 4gr. in the C45S w/160gr. Pill.Haven't checked velocity yet

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That is the typical color of partially burned powder due to low chamber pressures (below what it takes to burn the powder cleanly).   Not a problem, as long as you pay attention to whether the load works in cold weather, and stays consistent.  Probably need to clean a little more often to help keep action clear. 

I see that with light TiteGroup loads, too.

good luck, GJ

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I was using 4.2gr. of Clays in the C45S and dropped to 4gr. of the Cleanshot with no time for testing before my last match. They were notably lighter with almost zero muzzle flip. Next batch I hope to have time to Chrono and up the charge a tad. Hate temp issues! Thanks GJ.

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I've been working on my own loads for .45 Colt and .45ACP with Clean Shot. I'm not sure I'll pursue a .45 Colt load with Clean Shot, but here are my results so far...

Weather: Sunny, 95deg F, ~30% humidity
Chrono: Competition Electronics ProChrono Pal (new battery)
**Minimum PF calculated on avg of lowest 3 velocities

.45 Colt (18" rifle)
*bullets seated to crimp groove
Primer: Federal LPP

Charge: 5.6gn Clean Shot
Bullet: 205gn Bear Creek (moly coated)
Velocities: 693,707,694,687,652
ES: 55
Avg: 687
Min PF: 139

Charge: 5.6gn Clean Shot
Bullet: 200gn Cimarron (hi-tek coated)
Velocities: 769,699,721,718,686
ES: 83
Avg: 719
Min PF: 140

Charge: 5.8gn Clean Shot
Bullet: 205gn Bear Creek (moly coated)
Velocities: 719,706,702,711,699
ES: 20
Avg: 707
Min PF: 144

Charge: 5.8gn Clean Shot
Bullet: 200gn Cimarron (hi-tek coated)
Velocities: 733,826,756,817,759
ES: 93
Avg: 778
Min PF: 150

 

.45ACP (5" pistol)
*bullets seated to 1.19" OAL (bullet ogive will not permit a longer OAL in my pistol)
Bullet: 230gn Hogleg (hi-tek coated)

Charge: 4.0gn Clean Shot
Primer: Ginex LPP
Velocities: 688,687,678,689,697,691,695
ES: 19
Avg: 689
Min PF: 157

Charge: 4.0gn Clean Shot
Primer: Federal LPP
Velocities: 682,680,684,686,668,668,668
ES: 18
Avg: 677
Min PF: 154

Charge: 4.2gn Clean Shot
Primer: Ginex LPP
Velocities: 724,733,723,709,732,735,730
ES: 26
Avg: 727
Min PF: 165

Charge: 4.2gn Clean Shot
Primer: Federal LPP
Velocities: 716,721,725,709,721,707
ES: 18
Avg: 717
Min PF: 163

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Interesting that you got more consistent results with the Moly Coated. I assume all the same primer for Colt as they aren't listed? I only tried Hi-Tek 200 Gr bullets as that's all that I load in 45 Colt, typically Scarlett's or Missouri Bullets CB #4. I settled on a Red Dot load that had a spread of less than 40 FPS. At 

Following are my results from Clean shot:

5.0 Gr
495, 590, 544, 569, 604, 613 FPS

ES: 118

6.1 Gr
778, 703, 759, 810, 702 FPS

ES: 108


6.5 Gr
769, 942, 901, 841, 823 FPS

ES: 173

 

The load I use for Cowboy velocity of 4.3 Gr has a ES of 34, and 36 in C45S. 

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13 hours ago, Artemus said:

Interesting that you got more consistent results with the Moly Coated. I assume all the same primer for Colt as they aren't listed? I only tried Hi-Tek 200 Gr bullets as that's all that I load in 45 Colt, typically Scarlett's or Missouri Bullets CB #4. I settled on a Red Dot load that had a spread of less than 40 FPS.

Yea, I was approaching an ES of 100 in my tests with the 200gn bullet too. I suspect the heavier bullet might help build more pressure and allow a more consistent burn. The crimp was the same for both bullets in my tests. Primers were Federal LPP for the Colt loads. I think I have a bag of 250gn RNFP I received as a door prize, so maybe I'll try those to see how they stack up.

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  • 1 month later...

Right off Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook for 750 FPS - I'd say 5.6 or 5.7 grains with a 200 gr slug will get you very close to 750 FPS, which would be the minimal 150 PF.  Of course, you WILL want to chronograph as most 1911s have some variability in what speed a load gives.  Been 45 years since I shot Unique loads - will still work well, though.   And I NEVER load just for minimum powder factor.  About 165 PF is the goal I have for all my Wild Bunch match ammo.

I've never seen a can of Unique that had loading data for 200 grain bullets in .45 auto on it.  The current production 1 pound bottle sure doesn't.   So I don't know WHAT you were loading to have it "feel hot."

good luck, GJ

 

Edited by Garrison Joe
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10 hours ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

I loaded 5.5 and it felt louder and snappier than my old trail boss load so maybe it's just me? I ordered a new scale too. My current one is a 5 year old Amazon special so it may be out of calibration. 5.5 filled the case right close to the bottom of the bullet

A prat of that “snappy” is the 200 gr bullet. A 230 id much less so.

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