Happy Jack

Just a note of thanks to J Frank Norfleet and staff for putting together an EXCELLENT Wild Bunch match at Outlaw Trail. Even though the targets were about a yard closer then a "Clyde Match" every competetor managed to miss a few. For those of you who weren't there you missed a very good match. Try to put it on your schedule for next year.

I'm not here to argue the rules with our members. Arguments only lead to hard feelings and negative outcomes. The rule allows "reproductions". Many of us have the reproductions that were produced in China over the years. They are no longer legal for importation. Original "military style" 1897 shotguns are rare and expensive. Very, very few are used in WBAS competition. Making a "military style" 1897 from a normal civilian style 1897 is NOT listed as an allowable external modification. Therefore adding a heat shield to a civilian 1897 is not allowed. Original military 1897's have special markings on the receivers that are not present on the chinese reproductions but that lack of correct marking was not considered to be sufficient to disallow them as legal "reproductions". Many modern reproductions of early firearms do not have the correct markings. I hope this clears up the questions concerning the rule about "reproductions". We are NOT going to check every shotgun at a match for authenticity. The Chinese reproductions are quite easy to tell from early Winchester originals. We would hope our shooters are honest enough to not use an illegal firearm. The use of illegal equipment is a MDQ for scoring purposes.

I just post the rules as written. If I were to post an opinion I would clearly state it as such. In the past I have made it clear that the Committee would have to discuss a question before stating the final decision.

Adding a heat shield to a shotgun that did NOT come from the factory with one would be an External Modification. That particular modification is NOT listed as allowable. Therefore it is ILLEGAL.

Lone Dog, SASS specifically outlaws "combat boots". With the emphasis on military costuming in WBAS we carved out an exception to go with the costume.

Tully, thanks for the offer. I got the enlarger going. Found a filter in my "junk boxes". How did you know I used to be "in the business"?? Trying to hide my past profession anymore. ;) Not everyone on the other side was happy with my work. I should be cleared on 08-08-2016.

I am worried about crossing the border into CA with enough ammo and firearms to shoot one of those stages. :) Would probably be charged with attempting to start a revolution or some similar thing if I got stopped. ;D ;D

A "newsboy cap" is certainly period correct for Wild Bunch. Not so for CAS. Robber Baron wears one all the time. As for the laceup boots, most are legal, but so called "combat boots" aren't. Period military style boots without grip-enhancing soles are legal IF they are part of a matching costume. It sounds s if the costume you are planning is legal.

This is getting SCARY ;D I'm beginning to wonder what would happen if we put Sutter Lawman and Wild Bodie Tom together writing stages??? :) :) You would only need 3 stages for an entire match ;D ;D

I agree Allie, for Wild Bunch brass pickers are nice. I shot more 45ACP rounds at the WBAS match than TOTAL rounds at the CAS match during EOT. At EOT we had Boy Scouts for the Wild Bunch and 4H for the CAS match. I actually expected the Scouts to do better then the 4H but it was definitely the other way around. Of course the 4H group was the shooting club so they had more of an interest. Old injuries are starting to show on a lot of us as we get a "bit older" and it makes picking up brass a lot harder.

Back to the subject of the OP. I have been aware of this program for several years. The teams that come out here (Including various groups from DARPA) have mentioned it off and on. Sandia's CA lab came up with early prototypes, but the current prototypes are from the same group as the "smart artillery shells". EXACTO. While the projectile is .50" it is NOT a bullet designed to be fired in a 50BMG case. It is too long (doesn't leave enough case room for powder) and not only that because of the rifling in the 50BMG barrel it wouldn't work. Too much gryoscopic stability. A new rifle would have to be developed to use it. I have no doubt that it will work, but a long way from being fielded. After the failed tests with the radar and laser wind projects (some performed here at my site) this is a logical direction.

Actually J. Frank Norfleet is the MD for the Wild Bunch match at Outlaw Trail. I do agree with Joe though that after looking at the schedule there no time available for side matches. Maybe something Wed. afternoon, but after shooting 5 stages of WB I doubt many will be up to doing side matches. Maybe next year or in the Spring IF Buffalo Stampede returns we can have some side matches.

The Browning model 12's are modern reproductions made in Japan. They are NOT identical and are NOT LEGAL for Wild Bunch Sanctioned matches.

SDQ. WBAS Shooters Handbook page 19

Modified my response to Blackey. It has never been a problem getting assistance TO the firing line, just a question about firearms after the COF is completed. See modified post above.

Blackie, yes, but you and a match official MUST examine the gun before it can be removed from the line by another. I was answering what happens at the END of the Course of fire. In the case of actually staging the firearms before becoming committed to the stage there is NO problem with getting assistance staging firearms. It happens all the time.

The OFFICIAL position of the Committee for an OVERALL allowance has been and will continue to be an allowance will be given if the shooter has a written request from their doctor stating the reason and the requested accommodation. It has only happened once that I can remember. At a particular match it is up to the MD to make the decision. I feel personally that after watching many shooters over the years with prostetics and even in wheelchairs crawl up stairs to shoot like everyone else I am VERY reluctant to give accommodations for minor problems. In a situation like Blackies if he has a Dr. note I would have NO problem allowing him to wear shoes with velcro or whatever is needed. However a simple, "my feet hurt" won't cut it with me.

There are VERY few changes. Mostly typos and minor clarifications. ALL changes are noted by a vertical bar on the left side of the sentence in the margin. ONE rule change: You can now go back and open the slide on a restaged 1911 before firing the next gun to avoid the SDQ. (the same as the long guns) Also a clarification that the ONLY exception to the slidelock reload rule is when the slidelock fails and you need to reload without changing location you may do so without locking the slide open.

As JFN posted, we were having problems with the statement: "Safe reloads after any type of malfunction are legal." That statement has been DELETED in the new Handbook. It has caused many inconsistent calls and I will admit that I have made some of them. In an effort to be "kindler/gentler" we created serious problems with consistency. It was NEVER the intention to allow reloads from other than slidelock EXCEPT when the slidelock fails and the shooter needs to reload without changing position. I think that is made clear in the new Handbook. We appreciate your patience with us as a Committee as we try to forsee the unintended consequences of our decisions, but this time we missed the possibilities.

WBT and Boggus are correct: there are a couple of statements about handling the 1911. The one that is most important to this thread is the one on page 7 of the Shooters Handbook: "No matter what occurs during the stage, it is imperative to remember the 1911 CANNOT be re-holstered until after the course of fire is completed and it is checked clear and made safe." Other statements about clearing and restaging are also referenced. NO CHANGES have been made in those areas EXCEPT that if you restage the pistol with the slide forward you have until you fire the next gun the clear it without penalty. See the definition of "Pistol in Hand" in the Glossary to determine if the pistol has actually been drawn and the penalty may be applied. That is the ONLY rule change. We clarified the rule about reloads being required from slidelock as many problems were occuring with the current wording. The ONLY exception to the slide lock reload rule is if the slidelock fails and you need to reload WITHOUT changing location.

I am just back from EOT (20 minutes ago) the Henry Big Boy is ILLEGAL for WBAS Sanctioned matches. It is NOT a copy of a period firearm and a rerquest for allowance has NOT been received from Henry. This position was reaffirmed by HIPSHOT at the Committe meeting.

Red Cent: This IS NOT aimed at you, but since you brought it up it may be time to restate the "Spirit of the Game" as it pertains to Wild Bunch Action Shooting for the membership as a whole: Wild Bunch is NOT Cowboy Action shooting. Many CAS shooters have the attitude that "It doesn't clearly say I can't, so I can". In Wild Bunch the position is: "If it doesn't clearly say that I can, I can't". If you always approach WBAS with that attitude you will have no problems. If that attitude doesn't fit your mindset maybe WBAS isn't for you. There are over 1000 aftermarket parts for the 1911 in the Brownells catalog alone. We are NOT going to write rules about everyone. If the part is outside the "Spirit" of the rule it is illegal. The same goes for long guns and leather goods. Questions about specific items that may be in a "gray area" can be asked on the rules forum and will be answered by me after consultation with the other members of the Committee. Obvious questions will probably be answered by many others before I even get to it.

I was just reminded by one of my most trusted advisors/consultants that we discussed this years ago. Decided then not to address it so we won't now. Have at it if you wish.

Before you go too far down that road I would suggest waiting. The rule about extended releases on modern pistols was INTENDED to cover commonly avalable releases.

I agree with Joe. I've used WST in 45ACP for MANY years. The go-to powder in my opinion and many others. 4.7 should be reliable with a 200grain bullet. I only use 230 grain bullets in 45ACP and have used 4.6grains for many years. MY pistols are tight and the 230grain with 4.6 of WST makes PF 160 + - 2 year around. So my guns shoot a bit different than Joe's so I need 4.8 with a 200 grain bullet to make 160-165. Load 4.7 and 4.8 and when you get to a chrono see what the results are. Do NOT try to hug the lower power floor. The pistols were originaly designed for a PF above 170 so going too low will not only cause malfunctions unless the pistol is re-sprung but will result in a MDQ for scoring if you don't make minimum PF.