Tully Mars

Dead Head, Have you removed the extractor and cleaned it and it's channel really well lately? Tully

Garrison Joe, Thanks, somehow I missed that that when I reviewed the CC rules. Tully

Palm leaf hats are perfectly fine, my favorite hat is a palm hat. The only category in cowboy that a palm leaf hat isn't acceptable is B-Western. I had thought it wasn't legal for CC, but I don't see that in the rules. Does anyone know if that rule has changed over the years? Tully

I differ from Boggus in one aspect, my preference is a flagged carrier. Over the years I've seen a few M12's stopped in mid cycle do to the front end of the shotgun shell catching on the outer edge of the ejection port. It's my belief the flag helps insure that doesn't happen. However I own both style and haven't personally had this issue. The slicked up M12 is way smoother then a slicked up 97', but most of that is overcome by the speed we run them at. Apparently there isn't that much weight difference between a M12 and 97', but I feel the 97' is heavier in the front and stays on target at speed better. That said I had to put weight in the magazine tube and butt stock to help me keep the M12 in control. If your use to using the 97' and are going to shoot cowboy with it and it runs good for you, I don't really see a need to change. I believe that a 97' can be as competitive as a M12, however the M12's will be less likely to brake during a match. Reliability is the reason so many top shooters have moved to M12's is my belief. Yes they are so SMOOOOOTH, but I'd bet side by side trials would show no speed advantage. Tully

Thanks JFN......

Tom was a very colorful person, great gunsmith, Cowboy and a good personal friend. He will be missed very much! His family and friends are in my thoughts and prayers. Tully

My preference would be Total Time. Tully

I didn't know about the exchange, but I recently purchased several Ed Brown 7 round magazines through Brownell's at a very reasonable price. So far I've been very satisfied with them. Tully

Jorge your description is correct. Unless the stage description states otherwise you could fire the 7 rounds and stage the rifle with the hammer down on an empty chamber for further use, same applies for the shotgun. Tully I apologize. I completely disregarded "empty of live ammunition". Actually this is wording is no longer in use. current wording is – NO LIVE round in the chamber, action cycled, and muzzle safely downrange. Tully

Jorge your description is correct. Unless the stage description states otherwise you could fire the 7 rounds and stage the rifle with the hammer down on an empty chamber for further use, same applies for the shotgun. Tully

Dirty Harry, I'm in the east bay ( Antioch ) too. PM me if you have questions or are interested in Manteca or GCWB. Checkout Californiagunsliners.com for a calendar with match dates. Springfield is a great choice. Tully

Where are you in CA are you? Gold Country WB shoots the 3rd Saturday in the Sacramento area if you're in the northern area. Springfield or Rock Island not sure about makes, but you can check the CA DOJ website. Tully

Thanks for posting the article, it was very interesting. Tully

Having it tuned is defiantly a plus and Goatneck Clem does a great job. You may also want to try different brands of shells, my models 12's like some brands and not others. My un-flagged m 12 is more picky than my flagged one. Tully

TRIPP makes a great magazine, but I've seen a few that the floor plate weld has broken allowing the floor plate to come off as the magazine is being inserted into the gun. Those folks returning them to Tripp haven't been overly happy with Tripp's response. They'll weld it for free, but then Tripp gives that customer a disclaimer about how the mags are to be used, implying we're to rough on them. Nothing against Tripp, just saying their not perfect either. Tully

Why was the TO counting rounds in magazines on someone's belt? If the TO is going to that extreme and see's an issue before the stage is started, they should allow the shooter the opportunity to correct the problem rather than allow the shooter to proceed and incur a penalty. At least that's how I see it. Tully

I read the article in the Bluepress a few days prior to the 2018 Nevada state WB match. So I promptly grabbed my magazines, calibers and a beer and set out to measure the dimensions across my mag lips. Every single one was over the specifications by quite a bit! During the Nevada state match I had the double feed described in the article complicated by an empty stuck on the extractor :) cost me 20-25 seconds to get it all cleared and running again. Guess it's time for some new match magazines! Tully

Legendary Lawman, I took no offense to the laissez-faire comment and I realize that my RO style is to not keep up with the shooter while they are moving. Personally I think trying to run with every shooter just wears RO's out and the chances of being able to stop something from occurring is very slight. It seems to me that I'm taking the wrong direction with my argument, it's not an argument against tactical reloads at all. It's just that in my opinion they may lead to a miss counting of the rounds fired by the shooter leaving it more likely to have movement with a loaded gun, once there's movement sweeping is a possibility. My only concern is safety. We have a closer proximity to spotters, brass pickers and such than other shooting sports. Think about loading and unloading tables at some of the matches you and I have shot together, they are essentially inline with the firing line. How far of a stretch is it that they could be swept? We have a great safety record and just want to see that continue. Now that, that's all said I've talked to others and I'm currently rethinking my position on the whole thing. We will be unable to attend EOT and will have to discuss it at another point in time. Tully

Legendary Lawman, We had a shooter on my posse at Winter Range sweep the loading table sweeping as far as the expeditor position going far past the 170. The slide was locked back in this case. Is it really so far of a stretch for this happening with a loaded gun? Sure it always could have happened, but we have had folks do a TR and lose track of the round count and move already earning the penalty. I was the one swept at the expeditor position and made the call. The shooter was moving very fast away from the TO who wouldn't have had the opportunity to stop the shooter if he wanted to. That TO is extremely experienced and known to both of us. The new slide forward rule says not stop the shooter if they move with the slide forward, to wait till there at the next position to assess the penalty. So we are actually giving the shooter a chance to move away from the TO with this ruling without being stopped. This gives the shooter a head start away from the TO. I may very well have that laissez-faire approach to ROing, but I've had the ability to stop many a shooter over the years from moving with the slide forward. Once the shooter is moving away it would be very difficult for anyone to stop them. Plus if the slide happens to be forward and the gun hot is it best to interfere if the shooter is sweeping someone or to let them get to the next position then address it? As a TO I wouldn't want my attempt to stop the shooter to cause them to have an AD. It shouldn't be put on the RO as to weather an accident happens, we make every attempt at safety and safety is my only concern with this current rule. Tactical reloads are great in the appropriate setting. When Wild Bunch moves to all downrange movement, away from the spotters, brass pickers and such I'm all for it. Otherwise I'm not overly wild about it. Apparently I'm the only Wild Bunch shooter that's been swept or seen it occur? Tully

Allie, There was a lot of confusion regarding TR's, shooters, counters and TO's. You did an awesome job staying on top of it as a spotter and suck to your guns when you were right and everyone else was not. Happy Jack, Tactical reloads are not unsafe and are a good thing to know how to do. However we had one AD during a TR at the state match and others moved with the slide forward and a round in the chamber. I still contend that the proximity of the spotters, brass pickers, TO's and others makes it more likely an accident will occur. Yes that could have happened anytime before the TR were allowed, but it's more likely now. I can think of many instances in WB of folks being swept with the 1911 and the slide locked back, how far of a stretch is it for a shooter to do a TR, lose count and move, sweep someone and have an AD? I don't want to sound like chicken little, but I have my concerns. If we were moving down range away from the spotters, TO's and others I wouldn't be as concerned, but that's just not practical. Tully

Jorge I apologize for misreading your intent and taking out my frustrations on you. There was a time I was all for going full USPSA in WB, but I would not be a supporter of that anymore. Tully

"So what difference does it make'? Really? We shoot to slide lock, we never move with the slide forward without penalties to the shooter. If you're saying all pistol sports start the same, your incorrect. We rack our gun on the clock from a static position, others load and make ready before the "beep". In other pistol sports you're pistol is always ready to go. Big difference! Going locked and cocked implies Wild Bunch will move towards moving with HOT guns and not shooting to slide lock. P.S. Other shooting sports have classes, certifications and memberships showing you've been schooled in how to properly handle your firearms. We let everyone walk up and shoot. We have a 170 degree rule with the guns. At 175 degrees we have spotters, brass pickers, TO's and others. Do you really want 5 degrees between you and a hot pistol? I don't. The only way around it is downrange movement instead of lateral movement on the firing line, this means ranges with deeper bays, difficulty spotting for misses, downrange to reset, more man power and so on. Almost all of us have been swept by a 1911 with the slide locked back. How would you feel about a HOT 1911 with someone's finger on the trigger sweeping you?

One big difference between WB and the other shooting sports is the proximity of the spotters and brass pickers to the shooter. We shoot from store fronts and props that put the spotters on the firing line or closer to it than other shooting sports. In Wild Bunch we're counting as the shooter shoots, not after when targets are taped and steel reset. We have more instances of spotters or loading or unloading people being swept than any other shooting sport I've been to. If we now go fully locked and cocked without changing other aspects of the game we will in time have someone get shot. At least that's the way I see it. Personally I'm a bit concerned that the new rule regarding tactical reloads may lead to someone getting shot in time. I'm not saying we Wild Bunch shooters are stupid or have unsafe gun handling skills. Only that the chances of being swept with a loaded or unloaded gun is greater than other shooting sports when our firing line is perpendicular to the targets. If we were moving down range and away from the firing line I'd feel differently. Tully

MS, I sent you a PM. Unique is all I use for WB. Tully

We had one shooter that did well with the tactical reload, however I'm not convinced it saved time. Your still dropping the magazine, bringing the gun closer to your body for the reload, hitting the slide release at that point isn't costing you any time. Of course if the slide release is awkward for you or you release the slide by pulling it then it might be a good option. Personally I would be concerned that if a shooter gets into the shoot six and reload habit that they will eventually move on that sixth round sooner or later. I heard till of other posse's having issues with movement on the sixth round, but can't verify it. It's kinda like double cocking as a Gunfighter, that's caught me on a split pistol stages. Tully