Garrison Joe

Loading 1911 ammo too short can leave the mouth floating in air over the nose. That's essentially a sharp edge waiting to catch on the back end of barrel, or somewhere else. Loading 1911 ammo too long, as you have seen, can jam the bullet shank into the throat/leade of the barrel. There is often about 20-30 thousandths or so of "good enough, up to perfect" tolerance for over all length even with lead bullet loads, but some guns are pickier than that. As you found out. good luck, GJ

I am all for clearing our long guns on the line. Minimal movement with uncleared guns. Minimal disruption to scoring by having to put in "round discovered" penalties on the score pad/sheet. Everything to gain, nothing to lose but a few seconds of time for brassers to go forward. It will be one more point that ticks off the sensitive Cowboy shooters if your club runs WB and cowboy in same posse (a really bad idea IMHO). good luck, GJ

If you don't want to change die settings on that feller's machine, buy your own die set, or at least a seater die, and set it to make suitable ammo for your gun(s). It's your ammo, I suppose you are paying for the cost of components, and you are going to suffer if the ammo continues to jam. One die is a LOT cheaper fix than buying your own loading setup. Sometimes you have to be assertive about what you have happen. good luck, GJ

Barrels on 1911s have a very short throat (transition from chamber to rifling). Your ammo obviously has some of the shank of the slug sticking out past the case mouth, and that catches on your Taylors gun throat (probably an RIA from Philippines, perhaps labeled for Taylors). There are some throat reamers available that can lengthen the throat and let your ammo chamber. A good 1911 smith would know exactly how to do that. But, your "loader" seems to have made a mistake, by seating the slug so that the part sticking out of the case is not just the rounded nose but also some of the cylindrical shank of the lower part of the bullet. That fat shank will not fit in most throats, which taper from about 0.473" right in front of chamber down to 0.452" at the barrel bore/grooves fairly quickly. Defective barrel? No, just shorter throat than most. Will they warranty it? Doubt it. They will stuff some FMJ factory ammo in it and if that feeds, they probably will say - it feeds factory! Your ammo is wrong! Modify barrel - pretty easy. Fix the loading of ammo - even easier and no cost! Sometimes you just have to fix the real problem, not hack a work around. But if you want to read more about this situation, here's a discussion of semi-auto throat reaming: https://www.1911forum.com/threads/throat-leade-reaming.983074/ good luck, GJ

Think you need to wait for the revised 2023 rules to come out. If in mean time, you want to be totally "safe" from misunderstanding of the rules by yourself or the spotters/RO, then yes, restage your shotgun with no rounds left in mag tube IF you still need to use it again during stage. Removes all argument. Ouch. GJ

LL - this is the troublesome statement: More than one shotgun SEQUENCE means loading table count is limited to what the first sequence requires,by this rule. Which sometimes is different than the safe condition when restaged for further use rule you quoted. If this is not what we all think the rules should force us to do, then the "initial" word needs to be removed, and even better, clearly state "the number of rounds required for ALL shotgun targets" of the stage. Thanks! GJ

The use of two phrases that to me seem to mean just about the same in these rules (and in common use in stage descriptions) appears to be the cause of confusion. They are: "target sequence" and "shooting string" Only the term "shooting string" is defined in the Definitions section of the rule book: What I have seen in common usage in WB is for "target sequence" to mean the same thing, perhaps becoming more specific ONLY if there is a target order required for the string - like "using a left to right sweep." The key to these definitions of the shooting string or target sequence is WHEN the firearm type in use changes in the stage. If the shooter continues using the shotgun (not changing to another type), but has safe movement from one position to another, that is all one shooting string, and also one target sequence (where no order beyond the right set of targets are shot before moving and shooting the left set of targets). Thus, shooting 2 SG targets from right and then moving to the left position to shoot 4 targets would be only one shooting string or one target sequence. Your scenario can shot with a single SG shooting string. If done so, never restaging the shotgun for future use, then the shotgun can be brought to the line loaded with all six rounds and shot as a single string with movement. Your scenario can also be shot by a shooter (who perhaps is not paying attention) as two shooting strings, by restaging the shotgun after moving to the left position, and firing another type of gun (rifle or pistol) before shooting the left SG targets. There would now be two SG strings, and the right one would be the "initial target sequence" and the left one would be the "second target sequence" Per the rule about "initial target sequence", the shotgun should only have been loaded and brought to the line with 2 rounds. 4 rounds would have to be loaded when beginning the "second target sequence" for the shotgun. So, it does make a difference about how the stage is written, or how the shooter decides to shoot a stage that is loosely written. The shooter is still responsible for maintaining safe conditions for movement with shotgun and for safe restaging of a shotgun for further use: Using the term "split shotgun targets" in the scenario does not clearly define HOW the shooter will have to shoot, IMHO. Targets do not have to be split into two physical locations to cause a "split target sequence". Split means that there is more than one sequence for a given gun. Changing gun type is what causes a split. Not changing shooting position. Left and right placed targets, if shot by shotgun continuously (not changing gun types), still is all one shooting sequence (is not a split sequence). In my opinion, a stage description should NOT use "split SG targets" - it has uncertain meaning. Did the stage as written use "split" anywhere in it? If it did, please quote what the stage description said. BTW - A favorite "trick" (P prone) stage in WB is to write a scenario that shooter shoot SG from three positions, with say, pistol before SG at 1, rifle before SG at 2, and more pistol before SG at 3. That makes three SG sequences. Shooter has to load 2 at the loading table, then 2 more at the second position, and 2 more at the third position. Doing otherwise overloads the shotgun, and the overloaded rounds are "illegally acquired ammunition." Now, do we need another definition added for "target sequence"? Or do we all agree that the two terms are just about the same? That is a good question. good luck, GJ

Does it have a rail? Remove - it's illegal in Traditional. Arched mainspring housing? Replace with straight anodized aluminum or plastic one. Steel trigger? Replace with aluminum. It is allowed to make ejection port relief cuts even on a Traditional gun, and a good idea too unless your ejection is well tuned. Do you have a base pad on that magazine? Remove. And check with several of your mags - some may be heavier than others. And, you are allowed a grip cut at the magazine release for "relief" - there is no spec'd limit on how much that relief can be (hint). You are also allowed beveling of the magazine well. I bevel enough that the bottom edge of the frame is close to a "knife edge." As mentioned above, it is real unusual for a real govt spec gun to come in that heavy. My Colt series 70 from the 1970s is only 37.5 or so. You are only looking for a half ounce shaving off, since the weight limit for Traditional is 40 ounces. good luck, GJ

So, now you need to really put on your inspector vision glasses (or Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass) and find exactly the spot that is marking the nose of the bullet. The coating of the ramp (mentioned above) should quickly tell you. If it is that lower left side of the feed ramp that is the contact point, that is probably where you need to concentrate your polishing/reshaping work. Since you can clear the jam with just light jiggling of the slide, that says to me you won't have to remove a lot of the ramp metal. So, that is as good as the news gets right now. Since it's a mark that is unsymmetrical asymmetrical, it's a problem with only one side of the ramp catching the nose. good luck, GJ

Paint the ramp with some Dyekem fluid or a black marker. Let dry a few minutes. Test your jam again, a streak of raw metal should show where a jam contact is. GJ

If the bullet tip shows NO contact damage from the ramp, you could also have a very tight extractor. That would be a simple fix. You can do the "extractor tension shake test" yourself in 5 minutes and see if that might be the problem. However, considering that 230 grain ammo fed and 200 grain ammo (having a different nose shape, I'll bet) did not, it probably eliminates the tight extractor issue. Since all your ammo should have the same extractor groove shape regardless of the bullet shape you load. And, by the way, I doubt seriously that you are making (consistently) a 150 power factor with a 200 grain slug over 4.2 grains of WST. I load 4.6 to 4.7 grains of WST with a 200 grain slug and quite consistently get 168 power factor. 4.2 grains of WST is the often-used load with a 230 grain lead RN slug. You will probably want to raise that powder charge a smidge - never run Wild Bunch at 152 or even worse 150 PF average. good luck, GJ

Meaning you have a pre-Kahr-company-takeover, 1980s or early 90s gun made in West Hurley, New York? If so, you have a rough road ahead of you I would guess. For reference, read this quote on a post in the 1911 Forum from 2016: Serial number starts AOC and the following numbers below 50000? West Hurley for certain. If that is true, you may wish to read the whole thread at: https://www.1911forum.com/search/359589/?q=west+hurley&o=relevance good luck, GJ

Looks matter only a little. The feeding performance in the field is the important part. It could be that the left hand frame just was made a little short of material, so the same ramp milling took different amounts off. The picture that tells us the most is HOW the first round out of magazine comes to a halt when trying to chamber it. And, are you sling-shotting the slide or dropping the slide with the release lever? And what spring weights did you install? Like on most problems with the 1911, the hard part is finding the exact problem. The easy part is usually fixing the problem. Now that your jam pictures are up, I'd guess the nose is catching on the very lowest (beginning) part of the ramp. Does the bullet nose show any marks on it like it ran into a sharp edge? If when you have a jam, can you "push the slide through the jam", which could show you even more clearly what is catching the nose of the round. Does the round show any other marks on it that indicate other contact points? Now, what to do next is kinda based on your previous gunsmithing success. I (myself) would first try smoothing the feed ramp with some cratex abrasive tips, attempting to turn that sharp edge of the "bottom left" side of the ramp into a smoother and broader shape. NOT done with a dremel tool or a milling machine because you likely don't have the skills to know what to cut and how to control a perfect cut. You will need to be sure that the "nose contact point" on the ramp is what you are working on. Smooth a little, clean and assemble and test again. If you tried a good, fairly recent Colt magazine, then you can be pretty sure this is not a magazine issue. But I get the best feeding from Tripp magazines, just saying. If this starts to give you the "willies", then you can be certain a gunsmith should take a look. This should not be a difficult task for a good 1911 gunsmith. Properly ramped and throated, a 1911 should be able to feed a fully stuffed magazine of 185 grain hollow points or the good old 200 grain H&G68 semiwadcutter bullet 100% reliably. As well as your short-nosed 200 RN. As well, it should feed empty cases! Feeding a 230 grain RN shaped like a FMJ load - that's a cake walk and proof of almost nothing (perhaps why the factory can get away shipping a gun with a poorly cut feed ramp?). Now, looking at your loaded round - I see a bunch of bullet shank sticking out above the case mouth. This can quite easily impact into the forcing cone ahead of the chamber. I like to see the intersection point between the shank (cylindrical portion) and the beginning part of the ogive (the nose) be seated right at the case mouth, meaning a little shorter OAL than your pic shows. If you send the gun off to a smith, make up rounds that you want to be sure will feed in your gun and include them. Otherwise, they may test with jacketed loads and make the mistake of not really fixing it for lead ammo. good luck, GJ

Why would it be legal? It's not a model 12 (or 93 or 97). And, it's a modern 21st century design! The only trenches this could have been used in are in the SouthEast (SE of Ukraine!) good luck, GJ

One way I've seen chronographing done is for the selected shooters to be approached when at the loading table and asked to give up ten pistol rounds and same number of rifle rounds. Done at loading table so that loads the shooter actually uses are tested, not just "special box of ammo from the cart." Five rounds get shot over chrono from the match's selected firearms. If some unusual caliber rifle is being used, the competitor's rifle is used by match officials at a time which does not interrupt the stage. One round is pulled apart and bullet weight is obtained. Failures of the 5-shot average power factor (calculated from average velocity and actual weight of bullet) to make minimum power factor are retested. The shooter is given one more chance, providing their own firearms and the match officials will shoot the remaining collected ammo. Done because some competitor guns show higher velocities than the match test firearms might. Failure to make power factor even by one-tenth of a unit is a Match DQ from Scoring, with shooter allowed to finish match but not eligible for awards. Testing before match starts is encouraged. How this will ensure the shooter's actual match ammo is what is tested is not described, however. All this is covered pretty well in the Wild Bunch Range Operations / Match Directors Handbook, Appendix B. Match directors are allowed deviations from the full procedures written there, as long as testing is done consistently. good luck, GJ

Almost any 1911 can be easily set to a 4 pound crisp pull with no creep. If your factory trigger is more than about 5 pounds, it needs work. The lighter mainspring we talked about (above) will take off some pull weight. A good quality sear spring (the three leaf thingy) sometimes helps, as does taking out that Series 80 FP interlock. Auto Ordnance is not well known for doing much tuning on their guns, and it's not surprising that you got a poor trigger. Several reviews I have read call out the need for fire control tuning, as well. But most improvement on a 1911 will come from having a practicing 1911 smith work a little magic with stones and polishing. Many things to look at, and the pro knows which ones yours might need. Things like checking and setting the sear-to-hammer contact correctly make a BIG difference. That ammo should work real well, and certainly will be powerful enough for Wild Bunch. good luck, GJ

Both are symptoms of too much recoil spring pressure, surprised you didn't have cases falling right on your boot, too. Take out the buffer and don't put another in. Then check for how your cases eject. good luck, GJ

No buffer is needed NOR recommended. These are essentially a gimmick for when folks shoot hot ammo in lightly sprung guns and believe they see damage due to that. If the gun is correctly sprung, it needs NO buffer. A shock buffer does not make recoil less or the gun shoot softer. Buffers do add a piece of plastic/rubber that breaks down and jams the gun. I've run one 1911 Colt Government that I got new back in the 1970s with 130,000 rounds fired. Never had a buffer in it. Ran factory springs when I was shooting full power ammo. Put in lighter springs and retuned the gun when I started using it in Wild Bunch. My other 1911s do not have shock buffers either. good luck, GJ

"Another forum" post on this subject is here: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584466 Even though this post was made in 2017, no one seemed to know about the Secure Firearm Products tester which began to be sold as early as 2010. Shows that a spring weight tester just does not get much publicity. 😄 The original recoil spring specs (and how to measure the weight) from US government can be found in that post. Although current Colt factory springing practice is the 16 # weight, not the 13.5 # found in the spec sheet! good luck, GJ

Spring makers have a way to measure spring "weight." Here is the only commercial end-user scale I have found: https://www.securefirearmproducts.com/Model_Details.php?modelno=11490-SR-D It includes the compressed length at which a 1911 recoil spring is measured already researched for you. BUT - If they are "old" springs, just toss them. The ones you will install will be what you run for the next couple of years anyway (and those springs in the drawer will be even older then). A 1911 (or any other defensive semi-auto) deserves to have the best possible springs that never instill doubt in the shooter's mind! good luck, GJ

For reference the conventional factory springs on Colt 1911s have been 16# for recoil and 23# for main. GJ

On my guns with tuning and smoothing performed, for Wild Bunch 155-170 Power Factor, a 15 pound recoil spring and a 19 pound main spring work well for me. A lighter mag release spring is also handy. Some folks start tweaking their (3 leaf) sear/trigger spring, but I can get good triggers without bending or lightening that spring. That makes it easy to just drop in a new one every 5 thousand rounds or so. With higher power (factory and above), that set of springs may lead to hard battering on the slide and frame, so consider what you will be feeding the gun. 1 - Keep your recoil and main springs balanced. Just putting a light recoil spring in will not work as well as reducing spring weight on both. 2 - I've learned from reading instructions from several 1911 smiths that your gun is "sprung well" when fired cases fall 5-6 feet away from where you stand. If they dribble out, the springs are strong for your load. If they fling 15 feet away, springs are too light. 3 - The firing pin retaining plate bottom edge is often square and has a sharp back edge. Rolling that back edge to a radius of about 1/2" works for me to reduce slide retraction force, spreading the hammer cocking over more slide travel distance. 4 - Most mainspring housings have a rough bore for the mainspring. Brownell's has a flexi-hone made just for smoothing that drilled hole. good luck, GJ

Factory guns are indeed sprung heavier than is needed for Wild Bunch with it's 150 minimum power factor. And then consider the square/sharp edge on the bottom of the firing pin retainer, rough mainspring housing bore, and other burrs and tight fits on slide, etc., yes, non-tuned guns are stiff. General gun will probably be very usable after tuning and smoothing. From reports from others, not from any personal experience with them. Sights on the PO Wild Bunch model may have 3 paint dots on them, from advertising I've seen on the gun. For use in a Traditional category, those would need to be covered to match the main color of the sights. good luck, GJ

Stages with 35 rounds of pistol are VERY common. Stages with 42 rounds are also encountered. That latter stage would require 6 magazines IF you never fumble a magazine change. Or have a need for "just one more round" due to popping a round loose while inserting a mag. Magazines can get stepped on, filled with dirt, etc. during a match. All that means I never go to a Wild Bunch match with less than 10 magazines I trust. And enough mag slides (holders) to carry 6 magazines on my belt. good luck, GJ

They's the one. My experience with Tripp has been flawless for Wild Bunch use in either of my 1911s. Some folks like to add a 1/4" thick leather pad for more sure seating of mag in the well, and to minimize the chance of pinching part of their palm. GJ