Garrison Joe

Be careful trusting 3.9 grains WST to make a reliable 160 power factor (comfortably above the 150 minimum power factor). Check with a chronograph. And check reliable function with the spring set that is in your 1911. I use 4.2 grains WST when I shoot a 225 or 230 grain bullet. But, the small pistol primer does not cause the owner any functional problems, as long as your slide and barrel combination let the firing pin hit close enough to center to ignite the primer. It can cause quite a bit of cussing when a fellow shooter gets back some of your empty brass, though, and they don't happen to put an eyeball on the fired primer before trying to deprime and seat a primer. Large PISTOL primers are back to being available now (if that is the only reason you would go to a small primer). Now, large RIFLE primers are a whole different story. I've got such a stock of .45 auto cases from the last 20 years, I'll never use small primer brass. Besides, I find it perturbing that ammo makers cannot live with the large pistol primer standard that SAAMI set. good luck, GJ

Loads look PERRRRRFECT. Should shoot that well, too. GJ

Oh, and if you are shooting a SemiWadcutter design slug, then the right spot to seat it is still where the "rebate" of the nose makes it's 90 degree shoulder. Get all the fat shank in the case, and VERY little above the crimp.....maybe 5 to 10 thousandths of an inch max. Although I have shot a lot of 200 grain semiwadcutters in Wild Bunch quite successfully, that is with a target-tuned feed ramp and chamber. A lot of guns are not properly throated to feed the semiwadcutter design and it's usual short OAL well. So, I don't recommend folks use a SWC bullet for Wild Bunch. good luck, GJ

There are different recommendations for OAL in the .45 auto, because there are BUNCHES of different mold designs. The designs with a longer ogive have a skinny nose, and can be seated farther out. Short, blunt, fat noses will start sticking in the very short throat of factory and similar short-throated 1911 barrels if you load them to a long OAL length. OAL "requirements" for the .45 auto cartridge are the place where OAL becomes kinda stupid and just about useless. IGNORE OAL when loading, because you are not going to be loading Wild Bunch ammo up at MAXIMUM LOAD pressures, where the amount of bullet that is pushed into the case walls matters. If it really matters in these loads, they would tell you exactly what bullet mold design they were using. What you NEED to do, is make sure ALL the cylindrical section of the bullet is inside the case. Just the nose part sticks out. Nose being any part of the curve or conical part (for a truncated cone) at the front of the bullet. So, you look at your bullet, and find where the cylinder shape of the bands on the bullet shank "turns the corner" and becomes the curved part (or conical part) of the nose. Mark that spot with a knife cut or a Sharpie. Then set your seater die to put that mark just even with the case mouth. This puts the cylinder (shank) of the bullet in the case and the nose outside the case. No one knows WHICH of the various molds for 230 grain round nose that Hornady technicians selected to load and run the pressure tests on. So their "exactly 1.200 inches" OAL label on the load is what THEIR bullet probably needed. But won't be what you need. You found by trial that 1.260" OAL would stick the nose of YOUR slug into the rifling of YOUR barrel. And 1.250" would not. Which means you are not making much of a jump at all with the bullet - maximum jump gap would be 1.260 - 1.250 or 10 thousandths. That is nothing. Even if you had a gap to jump of 50 thousandths, it would not make a lot of difference with a pistol bullet. The techs are mostly trying to prevent folks from seating a bullet so far into the case that it raises pressures due to smaller volume for combustion at "bullet start". The deeper the bullet is seated in the case, the more combustion space the bullet takes up, leaving less space for combustion. IF they were trying to give you an OAL for best possible accuracy, they would be putting the bullet nose out closer to the rifling, which for your bullet might be 1.255" Your 1.250" is just about perfect for best accuracy, and not so long that you stick a bullet solidly enough into the rifling to have the problems of too long a load: * provide too much resistance to getting the bullet started down the barrel, raising chamber pressure wildly, or * stripping the bullet out of the case if you have to open the slide with a live round (which leaves a slug stuck in the barrel), or * if really long, then slide fails to go into battery because the bullet has hit the rifling and the case does not get 100% of the way into the chamber (the firing pin won't fall). So, to review, the recommended OAL in .45 auto loading data FOR CAST BULLETS is usually wrong because you don't have the same bullet that the techs used. The important part is to load so the curved nose section of the slug is all that is forward of the case mouth Crimp is just a taper that straightens out the expansion bell you put on to make bullet seating easy, and to return the OD of the loaded round at the mouth to about 0.471 or 0.472" And, make sure your OAL is short enough to let you shuck out an unfired round without having the bullet stick in chamber or refuse to come out the ejection port. For comparison, I shoot a truncated cone bullet, which has a longer nose compared to the typical Round Nose of a lot of .45 auto case bullets. My OAL is 1.180". Bullet still feeds fine, I don't get higher pressures than the loading books show, I have no failures to go to battery or stuck bullets when ejecting a live round. Both my loads and your loads need to share only one "measurement" - that the case mouth gets put where the cylinder of the bullet shank starts to curve at the beginning of the nose. Those OALs are vastly different. Both are safe and effective because they keep the fattest diameter of the slug back behind where the rifling starts. good luck, GJ

The SAAMI cartridge design has the main body of the .45 auto case at 0.476" diameter at the edge of the extractor groove, slightly tapering to about 0.473" at the mouth. The .45 auto only gets a taper crimp to protect the head spacing ledge that the case wall provides at the crimp. So, I never crimp tighter than 0.471" You can/should back that Dillon crimp die body off a little. You are making a tighter crimp than you need, and could run out of headspace, and when that happens, you get a few firing pin strikes that don't fire the primer since the cartridge can be driven a little ways into the chamber. Yep, both .45 auto and .44 wcf are persnickety loading. In different ways. If 1911s were routinely cut with a 0.150" long throat or more, it would be real easy to load. But, of course, that gun was designed to be a FMJ ball gun, not a lead slinger, so that's the why of the short throat. Some smiths have a reamer to cut a longer throat in the barrel, and since the barrel is easily removed from the gun, it should not be be a big charge. If SAAMI committee had really done a good job spec'ing MODERN, tight (for the 1930s) chamber and barrel dimensions for the standard, and even renamed it different than what Winchester originally named it, say, ".44-40" - we 100 years later would all be happy loaders. As it is, we are dealing with a case designed to be rolled out of sheet copper and shot down a non-standard sized barrel, just so guns made in the 1800s could still be used, even though most were 40 or 50 years old and designed for black powder that was just about obsolete when the committee met.. 🤣 good luck, GJ

Use that Lee factory crimp die with a Lee bulge buster kit together as recommended here before, and you remove the large base diameter from the cases, just above the extractor groove. You can use it on fired cases, or even loaded ones when a loaded round gauge says the round is oversize. Your loaded round gauge probably chokes on a few rounds with 90% of the round entering the gauge, then stopping short. That is the bulged base most of the time. One other cause is a little lead being extruded up at the mouth from the seating and taper crimp. But, most of the time it's a fat base on the cartridge case. And yes, it's because almost all .45 auto sizing dies do not REACH FAR ENOUGH DOWN THE CASE to size the bulge off the case (they all run into the shell holder). The Dillon crimp die will work fine. Use that FCD for bulge busting, because it pushes the entire case though the sizing ring. Here's the instructions from Lee: Lee Bulge Buster It's pretty cheap, and works. You will feel and see a shiny a spot where the LEE FCD die reduces the case diameter just above the extraction groove. If you just use the Lee Factory Crimp Die to try to correct case size during crimping, the shell holder (or shell plate on a Dillon) will likely prevent the lowest part of the case entering that Lee FCD, and you will still have some bulge that defeats 100% feed reliability. good luck, GJ

Yes, the wide spur is fine. I have run one before. Traditional guns just cannot use a (modern) round hammer "spur". You may go 10 years before you ever have to cock a hammer with a thumb on a 1911 in Wild Bunch. We start with them down, let the initial slide operation (and following post-shot slide operations) cock the hammer, and drop the hammer with a trigger pull when checking empty gun. So, for me, a wide hammer spur buys nothing. GJ

I never have had a problem loading lead bullet .45 auto ammo for Wild Bunch with the Dillon dies that are properly adjusted. IMHO - Don't seat bullet based on COL. Seat to leave no part of the bullet shank (the full diameter section) sticking forward of the mouth of the case. 1911s have a VERY short, almost non-existent throat between chamber and rifling. COL is so very dependent upon bullet shape, and it's not common to find the exact COL value published that YOUR gun will need. Check your finished taper-crimp diameter - should be 0.470 to 0.472". If larger, feeding will be funky. If smaller, and you have buried the case mouth into the bullet during crimping, you have lost the headspace ledge on the cartridge (which is the mouth of the case). So, be picky about the finished crimp. You should not need to worry about getting the case sized, but if you find some loaded rounds that won't chamber, and you know the bullet seating and crimping is right, check the diameter just ahead of the extractor groove. If any of that is over 0.473" you have bulged base areas. Lower than what most sizing dies will reach. That can be fixed with a Lee bulge buster kit and that Lee FCD die that you already have. I shoot a lot of range pickup cases, and it is amazing how about 20% of those cases have bulged bases from shooting hot loads and in non-supported or submachine gun chambers. (But reloading Wild Bunch powder level cases I've previously reloaded - almost none ever have a fat base). The Lee bulge buster provides a push-rod that pushes the .45 auto case completely through the Lee FCD carbide sizing ring, reducing case and extractor rim down to 0.473" and it cures any failure to chamber due to large bases. Your load looks like it meets powder factor nicely. It's kind of the standard load for a 230 grain slug in .45 auto. Some loose guns need a tenth or 2 more powder to make it. A loaded round checking gauge is very important to making highest quality .45 auto ammo, and it is so much easier than using a barrel that you have to remove from a gun. good luck, GJ

Mod 25 is illegal since it is not called out in the rules as allowed. A 25 is not a 12, just looks close to one. If you want to suggest it, go ahead. But there is such a good supply of 12's now, I think it would be a hard row to hoe.

Lightweight meaning an Aluminum Alloy frame? Maybe that's legal now with 2024 new rules, but I find a steel frame conventional Government type gun to hold better and shoot faster. It's not like we are concealed carrying a 1911 all day long every day for Wild Bunch. good luck, GJ

All I've needed to make a 97 hold six in the tube is just a pair of side-cutter pliers. Trim the spring so the uncompressed spring hangs out of front of mag tube about 4" and you will get positive feeding and 6 in the tube in all the guns I've tuned for WB. And if you make a mistake, a Remington 870 spring is an excellent repair part. good luck, GJ

Just shows you how little folks selling guns know, or are willing to disclose. BTW - there will most likely be no Model 12 you can buy that is "ready to go" for Wild Bunch. If you buy one from a reputable fellow WB shooter, then yes, you might find one RTG. One way to do that is to keep a close eye on the Wild Bunch Classifieds forum. Find a local gunsmith that knows how to work on WB shotguns (perhaps folks at Old West Guns and Gunsmithing - Squibber) and frequent them. https://www.facebook.com/oldwestgunsandrepair/ From buying a couple of Model 12 guns through GunBroker, I can tell you these 60-100 year old firearms are often in need of a least two major repairs EACH that have to be fixed, and then you will want tuning and barrel shortening on them as well. There is no such thing as a guaranteed fine, like-new shape Winchester 12 (or 97, either) for bargain prices. Unless you can take the time to go to lots of estate/garage sales and just happen to find the proverbial unicorn - "Grandpa's old shotgun - don't know what it is - how about $200?" good luck, GJ

"seeing shell capacity" - do you mean you have tested some 12s by trying to fill the magazine, or you are reading stuff, and finding variances (or even errors) in what was written about the 12 in some references? The Model 12 shotgun was built to hold 6 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber. Some may only take 5 rounds in the magazine and have them feed properly, due to tolerances, magazine spring design and manufacturing defects. With the modifications done for a Wild Bunch shotgun, shorter followers and shorter springs can be installed to make sure 6 rounds of 2 3/4" ammo will fit and feed. Now, there is a common "cheap" Model 12 variant, the Model 25. It was built with a 6 round magazine too. It was built in sold, non-takedown frame only, and only in 12 gauge. Should be marked on the barrel as a Model 25. Note - not legal in Wild Bunch under current rules. Within the regular Model 12 line, there was a 3" chambered Heavy Duck Gun. That is one to avoid for Wild Bunch, due to the design variations and hard to find parts. It usually is hard to slick up. Waterfowl hunting regulations limit repeater shotguns to holding 3 rounds at a time, so a magazine limiter plug that limits the rounds in the magazine to just two is commonly used. If you can't load at least 5 rounds in the tube, there could be a limiter plug - it's usually wooden or plastic and fits inside the coils of the magazine spring. There could also be rust, dirt, mouse nests, dents and other problems with the magazine tube that prevent properly filling it. So, disassemble the shotgun to the point that you can take out the magazine spring and follower, and you will probably find the problem, if there is one. good luck, GJ

I find that with a 10-8 National Match rear sight, the front sight blade needs to be about 0.130" wide to leave just enough gap on each side for my eyes to center the front with even gaps when shooting distant targets. That 0.190" would be rather chunky and probably need any rear opened up a good amount. good luck, GJ

Yes, it's legal for Traditional. You can tell because the rule is stated in the allowed modifications lists for Traditional and Modern pistols. Both my WB guns are so modified, and about as deep as the picture. Except I saw no need to funnel the mainspring housing more than just a slight bevel, as I chamfered the bottom front of the frame. Haven't missed yet slamming a mag home. good luck, GJ

Main difference between one maker's 7 round or 8 round 1911 magazine is going to be a slightly weaker spring in the 8 rounder, thus allowing an extra round to be stuck in. I'll take the 7 rounder for best reliability of feeding, especially since you can't use the eighth round out of the magazine for our game. And if you are using your game magazines for self defense, get additional real reliable magazines for the carry/house gun and keep your game magazines, which will get dropped, stepped on and filled with dirt every match, marked and stored separately. good luck, GJ

Although Tripp magazines in the 7-round Government frame size are probably the most commonly used magazines anymore (because of their feeding reliability and strong construction), many magazines are legal and work well. Some mags that are "standard length" (cannot extend below grip frame) will hold 8 rounds, but I've never seen a WB match where that extra round can be legally loaded and used. Brands like Chip McCormick Colt I can vouch for personally. Sure others will add favorites they have used. good luck, GJ

Right off Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook for 750 FPS - I'd say 5.6 or 5.7 grains with a 200 gr slug will get you very close to 750 FPS, which would be the minimal 150 PF. Of course, you WILL want to chronograph as most 1911s have some variability in what speed a load gives. Been 45 years since I shot Unique loads - will still work well, though. And I NEVER load just for minimum powder factor. About 165 PF is the goal I have for all my Wild Bunch match ammo. I've never seen a can of Unique that had loading data for 200 grain bullets in .45 auto on it. The current production 1 pound bottle sure doesn't. So I don't know WHAT you were loading to have it "feel hot." good luck, GJ

Do the math if you want to know it precisely. Power Factor = Muzzle Velocity (fps) X Bullet Weight (grains) / 1000 Difference between a 230 grain bullet and a 245 grain bullet won't let you drop the velocity very much. MAYBE you will feel a little less recoil. But I doubt it. Shoot a lot what you will practice and fire matches with, and it won't matter much. Even if you are shooting in the top 10% of the "class." good luck, GJ

Soft alloys are denser than hard ones (with lino added - it's the additional antimony that lightens the density), so that's why you have heavy weights with soft alloys. If you are not leading and the loads feed reliably, continue using your soft alloy. No need to find linotype to add, as it just runs up the cost. good luck, GJ

How legal and popular are modern pistol action shooting games in Europe? If some of those are not allowed or have poor participation, that could be one factor favoring Wild Bunch. Glad you went, FJT! good luck, GJ

That is the typical color of partially burned powder due to low chamber pressures (below what it takes to burn the powder cleanly). Not a problem, as long as you pay attention to whether the load works in cold weather, and stays consistent. Probably need to clean a little more often to help keep action clear. I see that with light TiteGroup loads, too. good luck, GJ

I'd just scrape that lead ring and shoot 'em. Happens to one or two a hundred that I load if the slug starts slightly cocked. But then, I run lubed slugs. Worst it will do is give you some leading in front of the chamber. It'll clean up with some bronze wool on a brush. Barrel leading is not something to be terrified of - very easy to clean out of a 1911. If you pull 'em, you're tossing out, what, $40-50 worth of bullets. Good reminder - hardly any .45 RN bullets have exactly the same ogive profile. Always worth chamber checking every time you get a different vendor's slugs. good luck, GJ

I'd NOT use any 255 grain bullets in the .45 AUTO cartridge (aka, .45 ACP). It's too long to fit in the case without bulging many cases. SWC bullet design will feed in a well-throated 1911, but often jam up a factory, non-tuned 1911 by failing to feed up the feed ramp and into the chamber. And of course, you would not find that SWC bullet to feed well in a lever rifle, either. That is a bullet you might as well try to trade for something that will work much better. So, nope, I'll not even suggest a 255 grain recipe in the .45 auto. So, pick a 230 grain round nose, or 230 grain truncated cone, or a 200 grain truncated cone if you want no hassles with jamming during feeding. If you like a polymer coated bullet, the pistol is a great place to use it, as you will only do maybe half as much pistol cleaning. Bullseye and Unique have been launching 1911 loads since about 1920s, and still work wonderfully today. Save your Blue Dot - too slow. Save your Trail Boss for Cowboy - it's soon to disappear because of end of Australian production. good luck, GJ

Ditto I think with a rifle match shot for "minimum time with just penalties for misses" that the penalty for a miss should be larger than five seconds, as controlled aiming to hit a 100 yard target might take 3-4 seconds (where as aiming to engage a WB match target at 20 yards or less with either pistol or rifle might only need 1/2 second). Penalty for each miss needs to be such it becomes impossible to "miss fast enough to win", as it is in main matches. Something like 20 seconds or so. good luck, GJ