Garrison Joe

Dang, so I guess you missed this lengthy discussion from two weeks ago? http://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/forum/index.php?topic=2251.0 ;D Short recap: My choice for 165 PF loads in "government" models - mainspring 19# and recoil spring 15#. That often means you need to hone out the mainspring housing bore so that the lighter-than-factory spring can provide all it's energy to the hammer instead of part of it wasted to friction. Read that other thread for a simple test to see if your gun is sprung well. Yes, there is a need to balance the spring weights. As you tinker with one, the other is usually adjusted in the same direction so they evenly share the work of soaking up the recoiling slide motion. The "recoil" spring really is misnamed, as it's main duty is to drive the slide forward, chambering the next round. Perhaps we ought to call it the slide spring? Another spring that is usually way too strong for as often as we change magazines is the mag release button's spring!

Probably not legal in Modern. Almost certainly not legal in Traditional. WB is different from Cowboy in that any device that is a recoil reduction device has been declared illegal, even though it may be an internal modification. So the "only external mods are illegal" concept from Cowboy does not carry over here. The Sprinco recoil reducer has been disallowed. So this Wilson deice, quite similar, most likely will be also. But it depends upon the rules committee if they want to name this specific one as illegal. Just the shock buffer pads - those are legal in either general category. Most WB folks DO NOT use them, out of reliability problems they can cause, based on surveys that have run on here in the past. Good luck, GJ

Believe it will depend upon which category you want to shoot in. Here's the most applicable part of the rules for a Modern category 1911: (note: rules probably mean Sprinco device, which is one of the more common ones) Here's a description, which always helps us understand what device is being asked about: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/755126/wilson-combat-shok-buff-recoil-system-1911-government-45-acp At first glance, it seems it would be legal in Modern category. Note that several of the reviews include reviews from users that there was a noticeable reduction in recoil. If that really is true, then the Wilson system would seem to be illegal. If that is just "end-user hype" because they wanted to believe it was true, then there's no parts in the kit that if installed individually would be illegal by themselves. For example, a full-length recoil spring guide rod, and the custom plug needed to install and remove it, are allowed in Modern guns. And I don't see any parts that would be active recoil-reducers. But then again, it's not all that different from a Sprinco recoil reducer. So, you probably are on shaky ground even in Modern. See recommendation below. In Traditional, however, I would expect that it would not be legal. "Full-length recoil spring guide rod" is prohibited. That guide rod in the system is so long, some of the installers noted they had to trim it to proper length to get it into the gun. Sure sounds like a "full-length guide rod" to me. BUT - these are my guesses on the Modern category. Before you go to the expense, wait for a reply from one of the Rules Committee for WB - I'm sure one will pick up on this soon (maybe even sooner if you had placed this in the Rules sub-board)

Yeah, but not with a mill or lathe, which is what HJ's point was.

Mmmmm, that would be the trigger ways, I would suppose. Even the mag well is a long reach for a mill.

I'm glad to hear of shooters using a shock buff. 8)

Recoil spring and mainspring have to balance out - as one goes lighter, so does the other. The best guide I have ever heard, then tried, is to shoot the load you want to run in matches. Watch where the brass lands. Closer than 3-4 feet, you need a lighter set of springs. About 4-8 feet, you have the right springs already. And brass thrown a long way out, you need heavier springs. Most folks are interested in getting the effort needed to rack the slide down to a comfortable level for their style of racking the gun. If you do that, a lighter mainspring is the main contributor to ease of racking, and to running a lighter but crisp trigger pull. Recoil spring is key to getting proper feeding and chambering. With all that said, for my 165 PF loads with a 200 grain bullet, I find a 15# recoil (standard, not progressive) and a 19# mainspring works well for my guns. Brass drops about 5-6 feet away. The standard factory FMJ and mil-spec load is 230 grain bullet at 830 fps, or 190 PF. For that, Colt factory installs 16 or 16.5# recoil and 23# mainspring. Those numbers tell me I want (can use) just a little lighter springs than those factory springs when I'm shooting lighter WB loads. And folks who routinely shoot +P and defensive loads often like their recoil and mainsprings at 18# / 23-25#

That's exactly what applies in WB too. Makes it easy! ;D

Well, even Wideners runs out of stock sometimes. :-\

Aluminum cases should not give you any extractor damage. It's softer than brass! It's the STEEL cases that can damage extractors and even chambers, although that possibility is pretty low now that Russians have learned how to coat steel to protect guns a little bit better. But, if you can buy brass cased ammo (not aluminum), then you are ahead of the curve when it comes time to start loading your own, which you WILL want to do. Just save your brass 'till ready. Commercial .45 auto lead ammo comes and goes, and when it is available, it's as expensive as FMJ ammo, if not more. You can load for 1/3 that cost. And no, the polymer coated bullets don't foul barrels. The 30 year old S&W nyclads had that reputation. But the current coatings are not nylon. They are higher-temperature polymers, and lots of folks are using them. Get bullets from companies that know how to apply the coating.

When a 12 decides to break or go out of time, you won't find many Cowboy gunsmiths to work on it. I've had to send mine back to the two or three good Model 12 mechanics in Illinois or Missouri. 12s break firing pins, 97s break left hand extractors. (Hmmm, maybe I ought to retro-fit a 12 extractor into my 97s......) Seem to remember EOT 2016 Traditional and Sr Traditional categories being won with 97s.... And last year's WR speed shotgun team match was won by a couple of 97 shooters. So, as stated earlier, it's just what you decide to pour your practice time into... 8)

Yes, it has SDQd some shooters MORE than once. Almost all 12 shooters have some indicator (a bandana, a plastic clip, etc) that they run through the trigger guard and remove once they see it at the line and ask the TO to listen as they pull the trigger. That visual, physical reminder works SO much better than trying to remember to pull the trigger "just because you are shooting a 12"

It is real important you check PF in your gun with the first box of ammo you buy. 1911s are especially notorious for each gun throwing the slug at a different power factor. I've got three, and there's 50 FPS spread between them. That is enough to end up with a failure to make PF at a big match. You want a load that will give you 165 PF in hot AND cold weather. Even if the failure level for PF is 150. Skating too close to that lower limit has burned a bunch of WB shooters. That will mean it is important to chronograph the load in your gun. Also, check feeding of any commercial load you consider, in your gun and magazines. You should find 100% perfect feeding from your magazines and 100% perfect chambering without encountering tight noses or case diameters. The 1911 is a finicky gun to feed, and if the factory ammo is sloppy, over length, under length, has too fat a nose, etc, your gun may not run that company's ammo well enough for you to be content shooting it in matches.

Gotta be careful with 4 double mag holders on your gun belt. Folks at about a hip size of 34" or smaller cannot usually keep all the magazines between their belly button line and the spine. If your mags extend past the spine, you don't have all mags on the opposite side of your body from the holster. Now, if you are willing to wear two belts, you have more room for mag holders....

Loading mags - yep, load 'em at the cart. Keep 'em loaded on your person or anyplace else - a mag is NOT a gun. One gets inserted into pistol at loading table. Pistol is cleared of the last mag used (and any cartridge in the chamber) on the firing line at end of stage. No problems. A mag is not a gun! You may carry as many mags as you can fit in single mag or double mag holders on a belt. As long as you carry none on the side where your holster rides. That means for most folks, you can carry 6 in mag holders. If you need more, you can carry mags in pockets, or even stage loaded mags at various positions on the firing line. It is real rare that I need to have more loaded mags than the 6 on my belt and the 1 I charge into the pistol at the loading table. The common and practical limit to shotgun targets on a stage is 8 to 10. For that, a four or six shell slide on the belt works when you need more than the 6 you can load in the shotgun mag tube. Mernickle makes one I use, which snaps over the belt buckle and gives me 4 shotshells and 5 rifle rounds. If someone sets up more targets than 10, extra shells can be staged on props. Or a cowboy-style shotgun belt can be strapped on for that particular stage. It's been a couple of years since I needed to do that. More 97s are used than Model 12s. Folks have lots of experience running a 97. A Model 12 can be smoother, but hard to make it much faster than a smooth 97. No new production of Model 12s by Chinese at this time, but there is for 97 clones. 97 was designed by JMB. The 12, not. In reality, it's not worth arguing about, they are that close. Just depends upon what you want to devote practice to running fast.

Pards, since we WB shooters consume LP primers like M&Ms, figured you would benefit from hearing that Widener's has Federal LP mag primers (#155) at less than $25 per M on sale this week. Not plugging their bidness, just their pricing. Even HazMat shipped, it's not a bad deal compared to what we've been seeing the last few years. http://www.wideners.com/ Good luck, GJ

AW - Yes, the Swedish Mausers have EXTREMELY long throats. They love the long heavy-for-caliber slugs. A big lot of the Swede 96 rifles and carbines were procured by an Albuquerque gun shop about 2 years ago, most in very good or better shape. I could check if you want to know if they still have some of those around....PM me.

Hold it right there, Samuel, is that a water-tight guarantee? :o See ya there (at WR at least)!

You could do that. Even fill the hole where the bead in mounted with epoxy and use a black sharpie marker to make it match the rest of the blade. Or you could get another sight blade which fits the dovetail that is already there in the slide, and keep the factory blade/bead for replacing if you sell the piece. This is what I would do. There's about 3 designs of the front sight dovetail, and mostly likely yours is cut as a Novak dovetail. (Most Remington 1911's are spec'd as a Novak dovetail on the front, but chatter on the internet says sometimes on some versions that Rem has made, they are a proprietary cut.) A gunsmith of any repute should be able to supply you with a replacement front sight, or even recut the dovetail to accept a standard front sight. Fast and mostly fairly cheap. Or you can almost certainly use a marker or black paint on the brass bead itself. Then the sight is "all black" and would be rules compliant (at least in my view). This would be least attractive, but easiest. Good luck, GJ

As you say, AW, the ability to add or edit a post seems to be working again now.

Maybe until the new rules handbook is available, posting a sticky at the top of the WB Rules section of the Forum would help everyone stay in sync with this new rule?

oops, error back again. And it's not a flood control issue, either - waited an hour to try a reply on a post of mine! GJ

Today I am getting a "database error" repeatedly when editing a post of mine. It requests me to notify an administrator. If this post is accepted, I will assume I have so notified an administrator. :D Later... Hope someone got this...but this is just a test to see if db error is resolved. OK, looks like it did get fixed! Later - fixed now? Yep, at least for now.

Leather needs to come to the leading edge of ejection port, at least all the way around gun. No slots cut down the front of holster to let you clear leather faster. I would expect the Cowboy rule of no holster can deviate more then 30 degrees from vertical (as worn) would be enforced. Haven't seen severely raked leather brought to WB matches. Since there is only one draw per stage out of leather and no return to leather on the clock, the holster makes less difference to your stage time than you might think. If you have to optimize something, it is your mag change times and minimizing your shot-split time to achieve 100% hit accuracy at any reasonable range.

Here's my 6.5x55 load that won the BAM match at Winter Range in 2016. As always, each rifle is a story unto itself, and what shoots to 1.5 MOA for my gun may not hold 5 MOA in yours. But as promised: Lapua cases Winchester LR primer Lyman 266673 mold cast myself using 16 Brinnell hardness alloy, coming out of mold at 150 grains +/-. No heat treatment, sized through a 0.264" die. Carnuba Red lube from LSS Hornady gas check 17.5 grains Accurate 5744 powder Since then, I've cast some nice slugs from a Night Owl Enterprises 162 grain mold that seem to want to shoot a little tighter group yet (maybe 1 1/4 MOA), over the same powder. Many of the Swede Model 96 rifles really like a muzzle velocity at 1600 FPS or less. More velocity, and the loads often open up group sizes. good luck, GJ