Garrison Joe

For Cast Bullets loading, usually if a powder is good in the .30-06, it works fine for .303 British loads too. The range of powders published in the Lyman Cast Bullet loading manual run: Unique - although it's a little fast for the good 1600-1800 FPS load that usually works well in BAMM competition - but great for plinking 2400 4227 5744 - most accurate in Lyman's testing 4198 And, would not be surprised if you are able to figure out a load with Trail Boss, Reloder 7, Varget or 2230, as well. Don't know that I would go to a slower powder than that last one. Not until you get some experience with what your gun likes to shoot. The .303 is very easy to load for, IF you have a bullet that matches the widely-varying groove diameters in the barrels. Slug yours to find out. Good luck, GJ

As for a quess on what you will get with your "wishing for" loads, here's my guesses (mostly in comparison with what Clays will do) .38 special - will be real squibby until you get to at least 2.2 grains. .45 auto - gun with factory springs will probably start cycling reliably at about 3.2 grains, and make 160 PF around 3.4 grains .45 Colt - squibby below 4.2 grains, and possibly will peak the pressure out before you get to 900 FPS (not that you need to push it that far) 12 gauge - If you load Win AA hulls with 7/8 ounce of shot and a commercial wad, probably 14 grains of powder will be needed to get a sufficient stack height for decent crimps. You could lighten things up with appropriate card wads to build height, if you are patient enough to stack up components. This will be one that you will find you still don't have time to load. Let's see how this works out once you start loading and testing. Be real careful when putting together the cartridge loads. Use your senses (and other resources) to to to keep an eye on either very low pressures, or rapidly climbing pressures. A real fast powder like Extra-Lite can create problems with small changes in powder or bullet. Small charges of Bullseye (also a very fast powder with high nitroglycerin content) have been reported to be complicit with Secondary Explosion Excursions (blow-ups), but have been pretty thoroughly debunked since the 1970s when the reports were commonplace. Probably most important - check chamber/cylinder and barrel after any unusual firing for a squibbed bullet or other obstruction or failure. You'll be working with no recommended minimum starting charge, so squibs are quite possible. Glad it's your guns, not mine. This research project sounds like more work than I would want to do (when there are lots of more technical supported powders out there), and no one's called me lazy in years. :D Good luck and be careful, really. GJ

WST and Titegroup are clean in my loads, when loaded to at least 11,000 PSI chamber pressure. Titegroup really smokes up cases below that pressure. WST leaves some unburnt granules below about 9,000 PSI. Both continue to work as propellants, and at lower pressures than some other "Cowboy" powders.

I have used WST in all the cartridges you listed, including .38 special. IMHO, It's absolutely the finest target powder in .45 auto and 12 gauge. It's OK in .45 Colt (and Cowboy .45 Special). Have never tried it in a BAMM load, and never will (too fast for anything but plinker loads in mil rifles). Clays or Clay Dot will also run right with it. As mentioned, Red Dot also. And those two/three will be slightly cheaper to load. Good luck, GJ

And here's why it is easy to spot a full length guide rod without making the shooter disassemble the gun:

Yes, solid full length guide rods have to stick through a hole in the replacement cap that comes with it (otherwise, the slide would not have room to open backwards toward the grip frame). Here's a snapshot from muzzle showing tip of rod inside of the cap. You can see a video showing installation and operation at: Courtesy of Brownell's Tech Department.

JB - Yep.

That stock was HEAVILY sanded by someone who did not understand the importance of protecting the wood profile during a stock refinish. It lost a little strength, but probably not enough to lead to immediate stock damage. Good luck, GJ

M12 buttstocks are not normally longer than 14" LOP. Of course, adding a thick rubber recoil pad to a stock originally made for a thin hard butt plate (if not cut down appropriately) easily adds 3/4" to LOP. Yours in that picture does not quite have the lines of a factory stock, so I would guess it's a replacement to obtain the long LOP. Good luck, GJ

You're right, here's another good explanation from Shotgun World forum:

Couple of common reasons, both bad news: Someone lengthened the chamber (or installed a 3" chambered barrel) Gun is heavily worn and chamber has been blown out so that now 3" shells chamber. I got one with a blown chamber, and had it sleeved by a gunsmith who has now passed on. Is his ejection port large enough to cleanly pass 3" fired shells? Sometimes "gunsmiths" "fixed" that also if they lengthened the chamber. Good luck, GJ

A factory installed vent rib is legal on a model 12. A factory installed Cutts or Lyman External Choke/Compensator is not (but were installed on a fair number of guns by the factory). Must be 12 gauge. 16, 20, 28 gauge (and .410 versions called the Model 42) not allowed. A Model 25 is not legal. It is VERY similar to a Model 12, but has a shorter magazine tube. Be careful about getting a real 12. Model 12s were made by Winchester until about 1964. A later model usually will have more life left in it than one made in the 1910s. Original parts are pretty available for Model 12s. Now, the devil's advocate position: One of the recently made Win 97 clone shotguns is very fast and reliable, and a lot more cowboy gunsmiths are familiar with fixing them than a Model 12. I have seen more Model 12 guns bind up when run real fast than I do a well maintained 97. And, of course, the 97 was designed by JMB. The 12 was not. But, it's your money. Good luck, GJ

I can tell you what we just shot at 2019 EOT. Because I organized this on short notice while at the match. We had three heavy AR500 targets that are angled at 45 degrees from vertical, and several competitors had brought jacketed ammo, so we once again shot BAMM on one of the cowboy bays. Three 16" diameter targets were set at 70-75 yards, with about five feet separating them. Either jacketed (including FMJ) or lead bullets were allowed. The stage was shot as follows: A timed bench rest or shooting sticks pass with five rounds. Followed by an "unsupported" position pass with five rounds. Positions permitted were standing, sitting or kneeling, with use of a military sling allowed if desired. Each pass was timed separately, then the raw times, misses, penalties from both passes were added to give a total time. Pass 1: Benchrest from sandbags, or from a range-provided simple benchrest stand, or using elbow support from bench, or from shooter-provided shooting sticks. Action open, 5 rounds loaded in magazine, and on beep, fire a Nevada sweep starting from an end target for five rounds. Pass 2: Commercial rifle shooting mat provided for shooters to use during this pass. Shooter allowed to assume their desired shooting position with rifle held in hands, action open, NO rounds loaded in magazine. On beep, load rifle magazine and shoot the two outside targets of the array, alternating between them for five rounds. Only one shooter asked about shooting from prone position. That was not allowed because a large fraction of our competitor group would have a hard time using that position. This changed up a little the previous scenario used at EOT, which has usually been 10 rounds all from a rest. Had 19 competitors, and we awarded the first, second and third place finishers among men and among women. Finished in about an hour and a half.

Confirmed - NO ONE shot Wild Bunch at EOT clean. The standing joke of reading the "clean shooters" list first - which consists of a short silence, was repeated once again at Founders this June, too.

Good question! This mistake is called "Overloaded Rounds That Are Fired" rather than illegally acquired ammo. Page 26 of the Shooter's Handbook lays the penalty out pretty clearly: So, IMHO, the call (by the rule book) should have been P plus two extra rounds that hit target #4 (2 five-second penalties) is P plus 10 seconds. Even though the #4 target had been hit already four times with appropriate shots. Now, this does seem rather overly-penalized, I agree. If shooter had MISSED #4 target with two shots at the end of the string, having already hit #4 four times, rules would call for NO penalty "overloaded ammo hit target" penalty seconds, just the Procedural penalty. Good luck, GJ

You have to know your sight settings to hit 16" targets (or larger) from 80 to 280 yards. That will cover all the available shooting ranges at EOT. I thought I remembered just shooting BAMM on Bay 16 last year, at about 90 yards. Good luck, GJ

Do you mean that the bolt went forward, and the shell was not raised high enough by the carrier for the bolt to catch the rim of the shell and shove it into the chamber? Or do you mean the cartridge jams into the back of barrel and stops the bolt from going forward? If shell was properly on carrier, then carrier is not rising far enough to get the shell ready to chamber. If shell was not fully on carrier (nose still in mag tube), then it's hanging up in the magazine tube/cartridge cutoff. Is the failure to feed more common when tilting the 12 to the right? If so, tilt it to the left, because you either don't have a flag or the flag is not operating well. Good luck, GJ

One of the best general gunsmith shops for the Model 12 is NuLine Guns, of Rhineland, MO. They may not know exactly what Wild Bunch is, but they certainly know how a Model 12 works. Have used them to rebuild a very worn Model 12. http://www.nulineguns.com Good luck, GJ

I've fixed all my Chinese 97s simply by cutting the magazine spring so that it's uncompressed length is about 3 inches longer than the magazine tube. Haven't had to swap followers or use any of the 6-shell kits. If you want to cut a spring that is not the factory provided one, get a mag spring for a Remington 870 in 12 gauge. Pretty cheap item. Good luck, GJ

Win Super Target. WST

Have seen several guns dropped or handled without a lot of care after being cleared at Winter Range and even EOT. NONE were ever made a penalty call. If there was careless gun handling involved (not just a dropped gun or a fallen cart), then usually the shooter was sternly warned to be more careful with gun handling, and if they repeated the careless handling, an "Unsafe gun handling" SDQ would be issued. I don't find any of the WB (or even Cowboy) rules that penalize a sweep of another person with an unloaded gun while off the firing line to allow any other penalty than Unsafe Gun Handling. Good luck, GJ

Well, Pioneer folks are usually very willing to discuss the legality of their kits - you can call them. Both of their kits I am familiar with are legal length of stroke. You need to seek out pards who are quite a bit more knowledgeable of WB rules. A short stroke for rifle follows same restrictions as on the Cowboy side. Yes, I have the Pioneer standard short stoke kit in one of my 73s. Quite legal and nicely built. Good luck, GJ

On par with Rock Island - yes All the others you listed - no. Good luck, GJ

WB Minor Safeties and Procedurals are time adjustments, having same value as in Cowboy scoring: MSV = 10 seconds added to raw time for each one called on stage Procedural = 10 seconds added to raw time for the first one on a stage Raw time + Miss penalty time + (MSV and Procedural) penalty time => Total time BTW If we are taking a vote, I too would suggest that published scores at WB matches always have a "detailed score" version made easily available. My other vote is that I generally like stage point scoring, as on every stage you are scored against the "fastest shooter" on that stage. Good luck, GJ

When the first 1897 shotguns were made, they WERE CHAMBERED for a shorter shell. 2 9/16." A short shotgun shell is an historically correct way to shoot Wild Bunch!