El Chapo

I wouldn't be against loaded starts with the shotgun, too, but yes, primarily the pistol.

I've repeatedly said that I am not on board with all the obsession with the 150 pf but I'm not against it either. If they want me to shoot 200 power factor, I'll do it. It will change nothing. If they'd let me shoot 150 pf ammo out of my .357 rifle, I'd start casting heavier bullets and load the ammo tomorrow. It does not matter. The last time I was chronoed, I went 179. The required PF was 165. Any points I dropped were not from hotter ammo, they were on me. Couldn't agree more that we need to poach from other disciplines. In a way I selfishly hope we don't, because some of those guys are really good. But before that has any chance of success, we need loaded starts and loaded movement. Loading your gun on the clock isn't a sport. I think it can even be dangerous. It kept me away for my first 3 years in SASS. Now I realize how much fun WB is and so I make the best of it. But loading your gun on the clock has got to go. There are precisely zero other shooting sports that start with an empty gun (at least commonly, there are unloaded starts occasionally, and they're universally disliked there, too). I know long time shooters of WB may not like it or think I'm crazy because I keep bringing it up, but it isn't a trivial point. Loading a gun is not a competition and shouldn't be made part of the scored part of any form of competition.

If it doesn't happen, I predict SASS pulling the plug on WB completely someday. This either becomes a dynamic, athletic shooting sport of its own that can poach shooters from other disciplines and outside of the shadow of CAS, or it dies completely. I see no other realistic way forward. I predict also that stage times will be indistinguishable between Classic and whatever we're calling the "new" WB. I don't have a big rifle so I'll be staying put. Not against the Classic thing, just don't see the point of buying another rifle. If I come across a used one, I may be very tempted, however.

Dream big. Now that the guys who wanted 150 pf for rifles got their way, I'm dreaming big. Loaded starts, loaded movement. And after that, 8 round mags.

All of this seems like good news. Maybe the next round we'll get loaded starts and movement.

That is BS too, although I didn't realize either of those were impermissible. Although I don't agree, I will continue to play the game no matter how they make the rules, but the rationale for many of them is lost on me.

I find it very strange that people are so opposed to shotgun makeups. I just don't get it.

If it doesn't fit dry, it isn't going to fit greased. Send that garbage back and follow the instructions of the people above, who told you what tools you'll need to repair your existing magazine tube.

In that case, you must not know any custom 1911 smiths used by any serious competitive shooter, because I can give you a laundry list of people who do so, and literally everyone who is winning (and probably everyone within the top 10-20) the Open/Limited/Limited Optics/Limited 10 nationals is using a gun with a 2 pound or less trigger from one of those people. In IDPA, the winners in the Carry Optics and ESP divisions are doing the same. Unless your "action" sport is something besides USPSA, IPSC, Steel Challenge, IDPA, and maybe some I'm forgetting, literally everyone who is winning is shooting something you didn't know existed until you made these posts in this thread. And many are using 15 pound mainsprings because they want the absolute lightest trigger, and the only way to get that is with perfect sear geometry, the right sear spring tuning, and the lightest mainspring their primers will tolerate. Maybe it was different 50 years ago or something, but these sports are incredibly competitive, and the winners will do anything to win, including using trigger pulls lighter than the gun that is in their hand, among other minor equipment advantages to have every competitive edge. And there is nothing wrong with that, as if the guns are kept clean, a 2 pound trigger is absolutely reliable in a 19/2011, it just needs to be in the hand of someone responsible enough to keep it that way.

The hammer's pressure on the sear is created by the mainspring. The friction between the sear and hammer is a function of a small amount of pressure from the sear spring and much more pressure from the hammer hooks on the sear. Lowering the energy stored in the mainspring absolutely reduces the amount of force it takes to trip the sear, as it's simple physics, less force from the mainspring = less friction, all else equal. You can observe this by installing a lighter mainspring in your gun and testing the trigger pull with a simple scale, which will confirm what I'm saying here for absolute certain. You will observe a lighter trigger pull with a lighter mainspring every time. Also, your claims about the underlying physics are not correct. The force on those surfaces is not only the sear spring, as the force of them mainspring, pushing up through the hammer strut to the hammer, supplies additional force between the sear and the hammer hooks. The sear spring is not the only source of force for that friction, in fact, it's minor compared to the comparatively massive energy stored in the mainspring. I don't know what a "trigger saddle" is either, but if you're talking about the trigger bow, the leaf of the sear spring that holds the sear has nothing really to do with that; the disconnector leg pushes the trigger bow forward when the shooter releases the trigger. Your claim about the hammer not moving when the trigger is pulled is also partially true, that depends on the sear/hammer relationship, and depending on the angle they meet, the trigger absolutely can move the trigger rearward when the trigger is pulled. Obviously that is not an ideal hammer and sear relationship, but depending on the angle of the hammer/sear junction, the sear can push the hammer backward further when the trigger is pulled if that angle is not cut correctly. 3.5 pounds is also about double what serious competitors are using. If a lighter trigger than that is desired, trigger pulls under 2 pounds are easily achieved, assuming the parts are fit correctly. I consider 3.5 pounds to be pretty heavy for a gun used in competition; the gun I shot two matches with last weekend is a 2.5 and many people prefer them lighter than that.

I doubt you'll have problems loading Titewad that light. A friend of mine loads for his 8 year old Buckaroo son, his loads are something like 9 grains of WST with 3/4 oz of shot and the pink wad. They are crazy light and will knock down the popper if he kid gets a good hit. 11-12 grains of Titewad will almost certainly do the job if you want light. They might even be lighter than 1000 fps. If your current loads are 1100, a grain lighter than that will probably achieve what you're looking for, 2 grains almost certainly so. Certainly there is a modest change in trigger pull from a lighter mainspring in a 1911 and that would generally translate to other guns. It's far less than changing the geometry of the sear/hammer relationship, but lighter springs for a lighter trigger pull are par for the course for almost any gun. The key when I do it is to go no lighter than 100% reliability allows for. Outside of CAS/WBAS, I don't like guns addicted to federal primers, so I don't run the lightest possible springs for guns that aren't manually operated like we use in these games.

Would it be approved or is it approved? Maybe they will change the rules, but until then, no it is not.

I think this is just an example of the lack of an Oxford comma rendering a sentence confusing. WBAS does not allow 1911s in any cartridge except God's, 45 Auto.

Those are all great news.

do share!!!

My 03A3 with the loads I described has basically zero recoil. What is the rifle, 9 pounds? A 185 grain bullet at 1600 fps is at beast a glorified .357 Magnum.

I'm using a Lee 185 grain bullet that is marketed for 303 British. I size it with the .310 Lee sizer and powdercoat/install gas check. This is it: https://bulletmatch.com/bullets/lee-c312-185-1r-90371

I load 18 grains of Alliant 2400 and a bullet, no filler. I've loaned the rifle to numerous people who won the matches shooting against me, so I can share that not only has it worked very well, it's worked very well at making me take 2nd place to my own friends with my own rifle.

Major power factor is 165 now in USPSA and IDPA but it wasn't always. The power factor was changed from 175 to 165 a while back (the internet says that occurred in 2000, hardly 40 years ago). IPSC doesn't have one power factor for everything and it isn't 165, it's 170 except for open, where it's 160 (except for divisions that are minor only, where there is no major). So if you thought the 165 was set in stone, it's far from that. So, I propose to all of you who want higher power factor for rifles: why not 195 for the 1911? Factory military ammunition has been 230 grains @ 850 for at least 100 years, aka, a pf of 195. 5 grains of bullseye and a 230 grain bullet was the standard even for our grandfathers. So why not? If we're obsessed with power factor, why not shoot what Browning and God intended?

The traditional 45 ACP is 195 power factor. Can we require that? FWIW: modern is not the "entry" to traditional. I will not be shooting traditional and I have no interest in it, primarily because I don't want to shoot with 1 hand, be banned from having a beavertail, and so on. But if I can shoot a 9mm 1911 in modern, I would be thrilled about that, just so I don't have to load another cartridge for WBAS vs. all my other handgun shooting sports.

We need chrono stages and a chrono procedure in the rulebook before any of that matters.

Well I can tell you this: I absolutely insist on never loading anything lighter than published starting loads and I've been doing this for ~20 years. I definitely wouldn't tell someone else to do something I would never do myself.

I think it's a really bad idea for a new shooter to be deviating from book loads. He needs a faster burning powder, especially for low pressure cartridges like these.

I don't really understand the obsession with the 150 power factor for rifles. It is not appreciably harder to shoot a 150 pf rifle than it is to shoot one with cowboy loads. If we're serious about power factor, it should be 170 or even 180 for the pistols and just leave the rifles alone. A 45 doesn't run well at 150 and everyone already knows there is no chrono and no chrono procedure as it is, so it would just invite rampant cheating. 150 pf for 9mm does not require 160 grain bullets either, there's factory 147 grain loads doing well beyond that already and I could easily boost my basic 147 lead loads that I'm shooting to achieve 1020 fps. They're already going ~950 as it is because even a 9mm doesn't run that great at 125 pf unless it has a pretty light slide. I would completely agree that IF we are going to do an open category, it should allow any caliber 1911. I would take it a step further and it should allow any wood stock pump shotgun as well. Another thing I'd really like to see, which sadly I doubt I will ever see, is being allowed to use modern magazines with plastic basepads. I am not sure what we are achieving by banning the magazines virtually everyone else is using in their 1911s, but I would really like to lose the leather basepads and just use my normal magazine, even if they won't let me use my magwell. Maybe they should make a "classic" or "heavy metal" division for the purists. I might even join them, I have nothing against what they're trying to achieve other than that I think they are focused on the wrong thing. If we want to make Wild Bunch competitive with other shooting disciplines, the most meaningful changes that need to happen are that we need to have loaded starts, loaded movement, and stop banning common modern equipment like magazines. Those changes alone would make WBAS into a dynamic shooting sport that would completely sever it from those who want it to be cowboy with a 1911. Both loaded starts and loaded movement were permitted at Bordertown this year and it was an absolute blast. They called it "Historic 3 gun" rules. I call it "every other handgun sport on earth." But either way, those are the big changes that need to happen for this to become a dynamic shooting sport: loaded starts and loaded movement. Loading your gun is not a sport. Timing people loading their gun is not a competition; it's dangerous.

A pound wouldn't be worth my time, but I'm sure someone will want it. If there was someone out there who had a crate of 8 pound jugs it'd be a different story. The small containers were 10 ounces as well, so if that's what you have, that's closer to a half pound than a pound, really not worth the time. The next time Ramshot Competition is available, I'm probably going to buy 32 pounds of it or more. I could almost certainly load all my wild bunch ammo with it and there's probably not anything better.