El Chapo

You should be able to straighten the bow out. As long as it slides freely forward and aft, it'll work.

There are certainly other sports where pros and amateurs get to compete on the same surface. Drag racing is widely admired for that. No, I can't enter into the NHRA nationals. But I can race on the surface where they do it.

In other action shooting sports, except IDPA, which penalizes dropping loaded magazines, competitors will replace the magazine in their gun before it it is empty so that they don't have to cycle the slide to get back to shooting. Tenths of seconds can make the difference in winning or losing a 12 stage match, and shooting the gun to slide lock is much slower. The only time you will see a serious competitor shoot a gun empty is if he has made a mistake. At that point, the competitor has made such a serious error that the stage is a total loss, it's just a matter of doing the best you can at that point. Since the game is shot in shooting positions of no more than 8 shots per position or view, even a single stack .45 1911 has 8+1 rounds, so there will still be the last round in the chamber when the person hits their reload. And in the other divisions, the guns can have much higher capacity, some up to 27-28 rounds, so there would be no reason unless someone has really screwed up that the gun would ever be empty. It is not only common to not shoot the gun empty, but also to modify guns so that they don't lock back when empty. The reason for this is to avoid the possible reliability issues that come from the lock back function (e.g., I just got a new 2011 that likes to lock back with 1 round left in the magazine, so I will be installing followers without the lock back function when I get around to tuning the magazines to make them work).

I don't even know who that is or how I'd vote, but I suppose one day I'll have to step up and get into the politicking.

The course of fire ends with the words "range is clear." If your gun isn't in your holster, the RO shouldn't say those words. But if he does, and the course of fire is over, and the gun is NOT in your holster, with limited exception, it's a match DQ for unsafe gun handling. So also wrong again. Maybe I should say this: if you think you know what you're talking about, or even if you're sure you know what you're talking about, cite the rule that supports your assertion. Because thus far, literally every claim you have made in this thread is verifiably false by simply looking at the rules, and obviously so to anyone who has taken an RO course in any of these sports. BTW, if you were done shooting and holstered your gun safely, the only thing it'd cause is the RO to ask you to unload and show clear. There is no rule that says your gun has to be in your hand when those words are uttered. So you're absolutely wrong about that part. The shooting is over in that case, but the course of fire is not. And like every other part of the course of fire between "make ready" and "range is clear," it is absolutely legal to holster your gun in the correct ready condition. So in that case, it'd be "no call." But for this, you don't even know the reason you're wrong. You're wrong because the course of fire isn't over yet, so it is governed by the same Rule 8.2.5 discussed above. Holstering your gun (safely) is not a crime.

Two people have now explained to you that there is no rule prohibiting safe holstering during a course of fire. The explicit text of the rules have been posted here and shown to you. The rules also prohibit requiring holstering on the clock because it's slow. Which is why those dump barrels exist. If a person were to safely holster instead of using one, the worse that would happen is a procedural error; it is not any kind of unsafe gun handling penalty.

I have no confidence that my proposed changes will ever happen because 1) I'm a nobody and 2) old habits die hard and SASS has a LOT of tradition. I will still be shooting SASS in 20 years though, and hopefully still in 40 years. That said, because I'm (not quite) half the age of many of you even though I have been shooting handguns competitively for 23 years and counting, I hope I can bring my experience from other shooting sports to show how we can poach people from those sports to come and shoot with us. I do hope most of you aren't frustrated with me because I can be contrarian, but I hope you all understand that I love the shooting sports and I come from that position in every comment I make. Above all, SASS has the best people I've met in the shooting sports, and that's why I have every intention of continuing to go to these events for a long time into the future.

They might be holstering either one depending on the circumstances. Ideally, a gun is never shot dry in an action shooting sport.

That seems like a very nice gun for $800. I have been shooting my STI Spartan 9mm for the last 14 years and eventually it's going to need a friend in the safe. I'm pretty sure it cost me something like $650 then, which is $943 in today's money. To be able to get an American made gun for $800 is a steal.

Wrong. IPSC is just the international version of USPSA, the rules are the same and even numbered the same. Not only is it not prohibited, the rule explicitly says it's okay if done safely: 8.2.5 "A course of fire must never require the competitor to re-holster a handgun after the Start Signal. However, a competitor may re-holster provided this is accomplished safely, and the handgun is either unloaded or in a ready condition stated in Section 8.1." IDPA, I was unable to find any rule prohibiting holstering on the clock upon review. I am not and have never been an IDPA SO, but it was born out of USPSA, so unless there was a reason to prohibit it, they probably just didn't. 3 gun is all outlaw these days, although all of it started with USPSA rules, and it sounds like you recognize that holstering is generally legal there. Steel Challenge involves literally holstering your loaded gun dozens of times per match. It also does not prohibit holstering on the clock, although I can't think of any reason you'd want to. It looks like we're the last one left drawing empty guns and prohibiting holstering. Although I haven't shot ICORE in a while so maybe they have a rule I haven't reviewed. I'm not aware of the existence of any other dynamic, athletic shooting sports. But so far all of them say that holstering is perfectly safe, even though it sounds like you weren't aware. The rule change that would be necessary for us to do this safely is that holsters would have to cover the trigger 100%. But virtually every other handgun shooting sport requires that as well. And I'd gladly buy a new holster to not have to draw an empty gun on the clock. Anyone who comes from another sport and sees us carrying Israeli carry is going to be seriously put off by what they see. It may not seem like that now in this community, but let me tell you, I came from the other one, and we didn't carry empty guns to the line.

All of them. It's just not common because it's slow, and it cannot be required because competitive holstering with loaded gun is dangerous and people will rush it. But there is no rule prohibiting holstering a gun safely in the middle of a course of fire and then drawing it again. You used the term "safety officer" which is an IDPA term, and while I haven't shot IDPA in a long time (like 10 years), I couldn't find any rule in the rulebook prohibiting holstering on the clock. It was born out of USPSA though, and I don't know why they'd deviate. For example, USPSA rule 2.2.2.4 makes it illegal to require a shooter to holster in order to traverse an obstacle. "Competitors must not be required to holster their handgun before ascending these obstacles." If it was unsafe gun handling to holster on the clock, there would be no reason to have a rule requiring a stage to be built in a manner that allows competitors to get to the shooting without having to holster. That said, in decades of doing this, I've only infrequently ever seen someone holster a gun on the clock. The only example I can think of where someone might want to do that is someone who is disabled, he might have to holster to push his own wheelchair, or to open a door for example if the shooter only had the use of one arm. Although it's slow, there's nothing illegal about someone having to do that. Which is why they have Rule 8.2.5: "A course of fire must never require the competitor to re-holster a hand gun after the start signal. However, a competitor may re-holster provided this is accomplished safely, and the handgun is either unloaded or in a ready condition stated in Section 8.1." For a 1911, that means safety applied when holstering, and for all competitors, they must use a holster that covers the trigger.

Not true. It cannot be required but it is not prohibited to holster a pistol on the clock in all of the other handgun shooting sports where I have shot tens of thousands of rounds through a 1911. It is not required that one do any of those things. The other sports 1) require a holster that covers the trigger and 2) permit the holstering of a pistol with a round in the chamber and the safety applied. Really, it's that simple. In 5 decades of matches it has been proven that those safety rules are completely sufficient. If the gun falls out of the holster, it's a match DQ. Pick your holster carefully. What we need is a serious culture and attitude change toward the automatic.

Maybe that's something we can fix someday. There's no reason a safely holstered pistol should be any kind of penalty.

I will go on record and say if it wasn't for the 38 rifle rule, I wouldn't be here. It wasn't a big deal to buy a Model 12, but a rifle costs 10x what my Model 12 cost me. It was bad enough that I had to knock off my fiber optic sight (but I can paint the red dot on the front sight if I want?), remove my magwell, and buy an entirely separate set of magazines, but at least I didn't have to drop a few grand on a rifle. None of those are places where serious competition shooters are looking. You should be running ads on Instagram and making promotional videos to show people how Wild Bunch is a dynamic and athletic shooting sport. Maybe cut out the sections where people are drawing an empty gun or moving with the gun at slide lock though, as showing that will be counterproductive.

I will go on record and say if it wasn't for the 38 rifle rule, I wouldn't be here. It wasn't a big deal to buy a Model 12, but a rifle costs 10x what my Model 12 cost me. It was bad enough that I had to knock off my fiber optic sight (but I can paint the red dot on the front sight if I want?), remove my magwell, and buy an entirely separate set of magazines, but at least I didn't have to drop a few grand on a rifle. None of those are places where serious competition shooters are looking. You should be running ads on Instagram and making promotional videos to show people how Wild Bunch is a dynamic and athletic shooting sport. Maybe cut out the sections where people are drawing an empty gun or moving with the gun at slide lock though, as showing that will be counterproductive.

I will go on record and say if it wasn't for the 38 rifle rule, I wouldn't be here. It wasn't a big deal to buy a Model 12, but a rifle costs 10x what my Model 12 cost me. It was bad enough that I had to knock off my fiber optic sight (but I can paint the red dot on the front sight if I want?), remove my magwell, and buy an entirely separate set of magazines, but at least I didn't have to drop a few grand on a rifle. None of those are places where serious competition shooters are looking. You should be running ads on Instagram and making promotional videos to show people how Wild Bunch is a dynamic and athletic shooting sport. Maybe cut out the sections where people are drawing an empty gun or moving with the gun at slide lock though, as showing that will be counterproductive.

Clays will probably never be produced again. I have thought about trying WST for a long time but I don't have any. I saw it at the store this week for ~$50 a pound. My experience has generally been that the powder that uses the lowest charge weight will produce the least recoil. WST is slower burning than Clays, and so at the same PF, I would expect it to have more recoil, but not by much, as the load is only slightly greater in weight. If I can get a hold of a significant quantity of Ramshot Competition, I may try that in 45 ACP. I use it for CAS now and it's a good fit for this. I'm saving what I have for my cowboy ammo. Clays has been my favorite .45 powder for a long time. I have also used Solo 1000, AA #5, Power Pistol, and probably some others I'm forgetting. N310 is the fastest burning powder on the burn rate chart that I know has data for 45 ACP, perhaps if I see that, I'll try it.

How was the smoke?

As long as an arms race isn't created, people will come. That is where I have seen my other sports really screw up bad. No rule changes should be seriously considered that make existing equipment obsolete without a lot of thought and a very good reason. As to the rest of the stuff, I'm not surprised one bit that your tone is dismissive of serious changes; that's the nature of any established organization. If your "research" suggests that people can't be poached from other 1911 shooting sports, someone needs to look at what the survey question is asking (probably not measuring what you think it measures) and start marketing to them. America loves 1911s and there are tons of them out there, the question is how to get those people to a match to shoot. Many of them probably don't know we exist. ICORE, IDPA, USPSA/IPSC, and Steel Challenge are all great possible sources for more members. They may even try CAS after using WB as a gateway.

Loaded my WB ammo last night. 3.6-3.7 of Clays with a 230. Thought about trying some new powders but Clays and 45 ACP go together like love and marriage.

There seems to be a great deal of resentment from allowing the 38 rifles. I've observed that in person and on this forum. Personally I think it's more important to draw shooters from other disciplines rather than trying to be like CAS, especially if the scheduling is like it was at EoT where I would have had to choose one or the other and couldn't have been there for both. Abandoning this idea that WB should be CAS with 1911s is the #1 thing that will draw people from other disciplines. No more sweeps and round counts on every stage would go a LONG way. The power factor of 165 (actually 175 internationally IIRC) has proven plenty safe and comfortable in IPSC for many decades. If we don't care about power factor, 9mm 1911s should be allowed. I just loaded all my WB ammo for Geronimo Trail last night and I will be shooting 165-170 pf ammo. I doubt a 45 1911 would run all that great at 150, but either way I wasn't going to try it; there are no book loads with 230 grain bullets that soft. Maybe someday I'll mess with 200s again and push it down some, but it's really not worth it. 150 with 9mm would require heavier bullets/pushing the velocity a bit, but it could easily be achieved--there's factory ammo that makes that. They could keep the same categories in place and allowing 9mm 1911s to play wouldn't change the game at all. Until then, I'll continue to play with God's caliber. Factory 45 ACP is over 195 power factor by the way; 165 is nothing.

That is awesome.

Agreed. 250s would be too slow. In 40, I found 200s to feel about the same as 180s so I shot the 180s. In 9mm, I'm not even sure I can tell the difference between a 125 and a 147 at the same power factor. The difference in 45 between a 200, 230, and 250 in slide speed is huge.

Part of what makes SASS great are the people and the congregating at big matches and I will certainly do that. I am "new" to SASS in that I've only been a member for ~4 years, but I'm not new to 1911 shooting sports, having shot tens of thousands of rounds out of 1911s in several other sports over the last 23 years and I am happy to share my experience with anyone who will listen. I was also a certified range official for over a decade and I have held the timer and looked over the shoulder of some of the best handgun shooters who have ever lived. Part of the challenge with SASS members is that CAS has been going on for decades and has a lot of traditions that would have to be abandoned to "borrow" these ideas from other shooting sports. As to SASS shrinking or dying, the stuff you're all talking about here with younger shooters taking a break when college, girls, cars, and other things get in the say is not unique to SASS. Sarah Irish the first junior grandmaster in USPSA and as far as I know, she hasn't shot a match in a long time. She's got to be ~30 years old by now and I have no doubt you'll see her and others like her back shooting someday. Those who love the shooting sports won't leave them forever. That people need a break from a hobby is not uncommon at all. Once they have their own families and are established in their careers, they will be back. I have many suggestions that could keep the cowboy heritage (steel targets at modest distances) and make Wild Bunch more exciting so it can appeal to shooters of other disciplines. Hopefully someday we can see that happen. One such suggestion, that I've made in other threads, is to raise the power factor to ~165 for both the rifles and pistols, but certainly at least the pistols. Hopefully that would satisfy the people who are angry about the rule changes that allowed 38 rifles. The movement is another one. When that conversation happens among the people who can make changes, they will have to decide if tradition is more important than the gains from the rule changes. Maybe you all will tell me to kick rocks. I don't have any way of knowing. All I can do is share my experience from other shooting sports and tell you how we did it safely and then those people can decide.

Perhaps this is something that can be fixed with the next rule change. I know CAS doesn't really like us moving with loaded guns, but literally every other handgun shooting sport allows movement, so it's really not clear why we have to be different. Even Steel Challenge has one stage with movement.