Garrison Joe

Generally, short shells are legal. The 2.5" shells from B&P are often used to let unmodified shotguns start with six rounds loaded, because that is a common stage description maximum limit, and that gets shooters "even" with folks who have modified the mag springs or followers to let them load six. Generally, it's best if stage instructions are clear and are written as if a shooter might be using shorter shells. So, don't say load to "initial target sequence" if that would give some shooters an advantage. Make the description support the concept of a level playing field, with all shooters starting with same number of shells. Say, "may load up to six shells." Good luck, GJ

Load your RN (or RNFP) bullet correctly so you don't leave part of the driving band sticking out above the mouth of the case. Only the rounded (ogive) section of the bullet nose should be above the case mouth. Then taper crimp to a finished OD of about 0.472" right at the case mouth. Then GAUGE in a loaded ammo gauge (or in a pinch, in your barrel taken out of gun) so every round fits in the chamber. If you have any that don't, correct your die settings (and components) until you have perfect feeding and chambering ammo. Chrono your loads before going to any major match, too, so you (she) won't get a surprise with a load that fails to make 150 PF as an absolute minimum. Best to load for about 162 PF as a safety margin. Since our ammo power factors are lower than what the factories usually spring the 1911 for, this does give you the opportunity to make the 1911 easier to rack the slide, if your wife would like that. For our 160 PF loads, the mainspring (inside the mainspring housing at back side of lower grip frame) can be lightened to about 17 or 19 pounds (from the factory 23 pounds), the recoil spring can be lightened to 15 (or even 14) pounds, and the firing pin stop can be rounded on the bottom edge (or a replacement purchased with a rounded bottom edge), all of which make the 1911 less challenging for some women to rack the slide, which we have to do at least twice a stage. If that pistol is still going to carried for "serious purposes" and practice fired a lot with factory loads, though, you may just wish to leave the factory springs in it. As for a powder that is temperature stable, I'd recommend Clay Dot from Alliant. WST is pretty good at being temperature stable, too, but it is slightly weaker when HOT weather sets in - the reverse profile for temperature sensitivity from most other powders, which are cold-weak. If you are running loads that are Wild Bunch compliant, you WILL NOT have anywhere as much problem with cold weather as much weaker SASS cowboy loads often do. Good luck, GJ

OK, you've described the action of the cutoff as if gun is upside down. Directions on a firearm should be written as if gun is upright and held ready to fire. The cutoff only is active during the part of the cycle where the lifter is raising the first shell up to the chamber. While lifter is doing that, the cutoff tip RISES so it sticks out onto the base of the (second) shell in the mag. Otherwise, during the rest of the firing cycle, the tip of the lifter holds shells (mostly) inside the mag tube. The amount of movement of the cutoff tip on a fairly new (1950s) M12 of mine from fully down (with action closed) to fully up (blocking the shell) is 0.120" If you don't get half that much movement, the engagement nub on the bottom side of the cutoff where cutoff is pushed down by action slide lock arm opening is worn or damaged, or the nub on the back end of the cutoff is worn, thus preventing enough force being applied to pivot the cutoff. Find a buddy with a M12, compare how the tip of the cutoff is shaped, to your part. If sufficiently worn or bent, a cutoff fails to hold shells in mag tube, intermittently. If the tip looks good, then check the back-end nub of the cutoff that pivots the cutoff - that area may be bent or worn. Installing a new cutoff may be fastest way to check this. Nu-Line Guns in Missouri has cutoff's for M12 12 gauge: http://www.nulineguns.com/part_part_70_3_31_42.php As does Midwest Gun Works https://www.midwestgunworks.com/winchester-model-12/parts.html Both are $40. Good luck, GJ

IMR 4895 and H4895 do not load to exact same weight. But for cast bullet use, weights for same velocity will be fairly close, and certainly safe to interchange. I get better results with a slightly faster powder, like Reloder 7, in 30 cal cast bullet loads. Most folks can't get target accuracy throwing powder with measures. That's what tricklers are for. I use a measure, then dribble a few grains while on a good scale. Good luck, GJ

Yep, look for gunk in the trigger group or where the hook for slide lock fits up into the rest of the action. If it was working fine, and started locking tight, dirty gun is first and cheap thing to look for. Worn parts - next. Burrs - unless the fitting of parts at factory was horrible, it's not common they interfere after years of the gun working well. Good luck, GJ

You need to provide more info for us to be able to guess (remotely, without looking) what 2 gunsmiths couldn't determine when they had the gun in hands! Yes, recoil of firing a shell should unlock action - without needing any manual forward push by you. Let's start with the age of your Model 12. Do you know how old it is, roughly? Does it have a 2 3/4" or a 3" (heavy duck gun) chamber? Have you tried brass base hulls like Winchester AA or Remington STS or Federal target loads? Or only the steel base hulls (anything cheap or foreign is often steel base). Does the action open (after firing a shell) when you use the slide release button behind the trigger guard? If it won't open with slide release, you can be sure the action slide lock is not working. The slide lock mechanism is part of the trigger group. Disassembly of the trigger group is not advised for someone without training on it! But you can take the trigger group out and hose it down with a good solvent and air pressure. Very lightly relube with spray gun oil and reinstall and see if that clears up the lock releasing. Good luck, GJ

"7th round jam" is one of the few problems that some Garands have. Real early production has too much machining work done in the action, but arsenals fixed most of those early receivers. One thing to check is that you have lubed it sufficiently. Here's a tip directly from CMP: http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/assemblyhtml/reassemblefeed2.html And suggestions for good grease here: http://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-grease Good luck, I have one that I am fighting the same problem right now. GJ

In another thread this month, Goatneck Clem provided general information about his Garand load with 170 grain bullets. That would make a great starting point to work up a good load, or perhaps contact him with a message and ask for the powder charge he uses. https://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/forum/index.php?topic=2605.0 A copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook will be real useful as you start working on your loads! As will a chronograph. A recent month of Handloader magazine has a good article on loading jacketed ammo for the Garand. By John Barsness. October 2018 issue. https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL316%20Partial.pdf A city library MIGHT have a copy. Or just flip through the Garand article at the link above. I've loaded some cast bullets for my 1903 and A3 rifles with cast bullets and got good results at 1800 FPS with either 5744 or Reloder 7 powders. Same general results as what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says about cast bullet loads in .30-06. You wrote: "4795" as a powder You are thinking about the several-years-discontinued IMR 4759. Several other powders are almost as accurate and will work fine! With lead bullet loads, folks have good luck loading for the Garand with cast bullets ranging from 150 to 200 grains. A 170 grain CAST bullet is a good "middle of road" slug. The balancing act loading for the M1 rifle is to get enough gas energy to work the action, not so much that you damage the operating rod, produce good accuracy and generate little to no leading. Powders in the burning range of Alliant 2400 to IMR 4198 through 3031 are often used with cast bullets, although sticking with either the Alliant or IMR powders is not required. Good luck, GJ

Don't get anxious and shoot normal .30-06 factory ammo through your Garand. Find the lower velocity "M2" type ammo that makes about 45,000 psi and launches a 150 (or up to 168 grain jacketed bullet) at about 2720 FPS (more like 2600 for the heavier bullet there). Federal produces a nice Garand level load, as does Priv Partisan and Creedmoor Ammo (available through CMP web site shipped right to your door). http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/05/federal-introduces-affordable-m1-garand-ammo/ Shooting full current power level factory ammo (without having the gas capture system modified) will quickly bend the operating rod. But, you have a good range of lead bullet loads that will be safe in your new gun! Good luck, GJ

I can answer what we've done for last 3 years or so for BAMM at Winter Range. Shooter was allowed to use any support they wanted. A solid shooting table and sand bags were available, a few shot from crossed sticks, one or two shot prone. The range is consolidated sand and light gravel. Would be very easy to use spiked tip shooting sticks if you so desired. This year - could very well be exactly the same. Know your sight settings from 75 to 200 yards before you get there (no sight in area offered by WR) Good luck, GJ

I find a gas check usually improves any lead bullet rifle load at least a little, and sometimes a lot. I've tried the cheap stamped-from-aluminum-can gas checks, I find them worse than a bare base. So, I only use the commercial gilding metal GCs from Hornady, Lyman, etc. Which 170 grain design do you like? I could provide you a hundred or two of any of these three six that I have on my shelf: Lyman # 311466 Loverin semi-spitzer with lots of lube grooves, about 165 grains Lyman # 311291 Round Nose, about 170 grains Lyman # 311467 Loverin semi-spitzer, about 175 grains. Accurate 31-170-FT 170 grain flat nose copy of Loverin style RCBS 165 grain silhouette design with flattened spitzer nose NOE # 311-170-FN 170 flattened spitzer nose Normally I lube with White Label 2500 or Carnuba Red lube, but have a couple of others I can slap on instead..... Norm Purcella can be reached at: 575 625-2825. per: https://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/forum/index.php?topic=2232.0 Good luck, GJ

There were a couple of stages at 2018 EOT with pistol targets set as far as 25 yards. Yep, folks (including me) missed several of those buggers. None in the main match are ever far enough that you have to start worrying about trajectory and sight adjustment on the fly. Now, the long range pistol side match, when held, is typically a target at 50 yards. You may want to practice that a little bit ;) Good luck, GJ

I only use Colt and Tripp mags with hybrid lips, and only knock maybe a round or two loose during a year of shooting. So, my experience is not going to tell you much. Use the best equipment and don't worry about the freak situations, other than to be ready to make the appropriate recovery if you can. If you need to take a second or two to think through a disaster, though, take it. It beats getting a miss, a P or a Safety. Good luck, GJ

(No, has never happened to me). So shooter was doing a tactical reload. He knocked top round off the top of magazine and that round was loose in the mag well. And the chambered round fired. It is quite possible that the rim or nose of the cartridge jammed into the trigger stirrup, which presses against the disconnector and sear at the back of the mag well (close to the top of the magazine chase). Round could not get directly to the disconnector to move it anywhere nearly as easily. GOOD thing it was safely pointed down range when reloading a mag. Other possibility - his trigger finger tripped the trigger (perhaps due to loose round stopping the travel of the magazine up the well) and with these distractions going on, he didn't notice that trigger finger was jostled. But, looking at the web page, reportedly he had trigger finger completely out of the trigger guard during the mag reload. Good luck, GJ

Some shooters find that when their Model 12 does this, they can avoid a "bump during chambering" by keeping the gun tilted left about 10 degrees (receiver-top-to-the-shooter's-left) and let gravity keep the shell aligned with the chamber. It does get old after a while, always trying to remember to do that. Good luck, GJ

One reason a lot of shooters settle in on Winchester Super Target (WST) powder is it's temperature insensitivity. In fact, it is slightly slower in hot temperatures. So, a load worked up in the summer will almost always maintain the same or higher power factor in cold temps. Clay Dot is another powder that is very consistent over a range of normal temperatures. Good luck, GJ

To get back to original question, Win 231 will work fine in .45 auto and with a 230 grain slug. I've loaded that to about 165 PF (years ago) and it's a nice, reliable load. Try about 4.5 grains, and chrono in YOUR pistol because velocities in 1911's vary quite a bit gun to gun. Good luck, GJ

Here's the last of my thread entries about Cutts Compensators on the SASS wire. The member writing on the SASS Wire got correct information as soon as it was clarified here, he made the correct choice for WB by removing the Cutts Compensators off of a gun or three of his that he might use in WB. I edit posts to correct a mistake or misunderstanding or where there is a simpler way to get something done than originally posted. If you are concerned about the historical content of posts, I can line through parts of posts where I correct a post. Or I can offer to make another separate entry on a thread, and copy and correct into a really long post. I run across a question about a Cutts Compensator about once every 10 years. Sorry I didn't reread the rules closely enough to find the compensating ports not allowed, and translate that into also banning Cutts. I was going on the long-standing basic philosophy that any configuration the factory made a gun in back in the period, was acceptable to use in the WB and Cowboy games. I now see this is sometimes supported in the rules, and sometimes disallowed. I'll quit using that "historical factory configuration" as a decision criteria. Good luck, GJ

The piece I edited was to simplify the way to get a 1911 open and ready to move to another position while recovering from cocking at wrong shooting position. Didn't change anything you had concerns with. if I remember right. Good luck, GJ

Sure - it's in item 3 on page 24 of SHB :) Good luck, GJ

Nope, I didn't write anything about the overloading of a long gun. As long as extra rounds are removed from the gun before discarding it, overloading does not create a penalty situation. But the new rules, as Jorge pointed out, have what I believe is new wording about "only can load at loading table for the initial sequence" in which the gun is used. Which as far as I can tell, means the initial shooting string that a gun could be used in, where the same gun will be used again after another type of gun is used. That is the point that I believe Jorge is concerned about. Good luck, GJ Correction: OK, did some digging into the older rules sets. The wording that Jorge was calling out about "loading rounds only for the initial sequence" has been in the handbook since about 2013. Between SHB versions I have from 2012 and a later one from 2013, the words "rounds required for the initial target sequence" were put in to replace "rounds required by the stage". So, the rules haven't changed recently. What I explained earlier - that loading for the shooting string you will (first) do with each of the long guns - is still a good explanation of what the rules mean. Correct me if I'm wrong. So the example of a stage where rifle is shot 5 rounds at position 1, then 5 more at Position 2, then shotgun at position 3, then 2 rifle (reloads) at position 4 - would allow loading 10 rounds at the Loading table, not 12, and not limiting it to just the 5 rounds used at Position 1. Good luck, GJ

Look for a model called "Government" or Mil-Spec among the 1911s you are checking out. Commonly used lower-priced Traditional guns include: A Colt Series 80 Government model ought to work, but it looks like it is not on CA list. :-[ Remington R1 (apparently not on CA list) Armscorp government models, including the several importers who all relabel Armscor guns (like Rock Island Armory). Look for "California Compliant Pistol Available (model 51421-CA)" Yep, AutoOrdnance has a few models Yep, Springfield Armory Mil-Spec (has a CA compliant version) --- would be my choice! Good luck, GJ

Jorge - you wrote Can you cite the page number you think you found words like that? I don't see it in Shooter's Handbook. Thanks, GJ OK, now I see what you are referring to. Under rifle and shotgun range operations, SHB says Usually the term "sequence" is the same as "shooting string" in Wild Bunch. Shooting String is defined (last couple of pages of the handbook) as: Let's say, rifle was going to be fired as first gun, but from two positions, 5 rounds from each. Then shotgun, then rifle again for 2 more loaded-from-person rounds. Your "initial sequence" would be the first 10 rounds all from rifle. You would be penalized if you loaded 12 rounds, both for not following loading table procedures (can only load for the initial sequence), and for restaging the rifle with 2 rounds in magazine while you fired shotgun. IMHO. Unfortunately, the term "initial sequence" is not defined. If the Rules Committee provides us a DIFFERENT definition now than what Shooting String is, all bets are off. Good luck, GJ

The main use of "decocking" would be to correct having worked the action and loaded a round when you are in the wrong position. On most of our long guns, it's not easy (certainly not fast) to keep a round in the mag tube from getting onto your carrier when you eject a round as you mentioned wanting to do. You'll get the round in chamber out, but you will still have round on carrier (unless you dump it out of gun, too). And rounds in mag tube. And action open. The gun cannot be laid down in that condition. You CAN move to another position, though. So I'll try to cover all the ways you can recover from having jacked a round into the chamber at the wrong position or even into the wrong gun. Problem: Cocked correct gun, but in wrong position Short answer, yes, you could do your recovery technique as you describe (eject the round in chamber, leave action open for long guns, or eject round, manually lock slide back for 1911) if you immediately move to another position, carrying the gun with muzzle down range. You could then reload one round for the round you "jacked out". That would give you no penalty, and all your original number of shots to hit targets with. Alternatively, you can fire one round at correct target, or into the back berm if you can't fire at the correct target. You will get a P for firing from wrong position. With action closed on fired round or open with round on carrier, move to correct position. Fire rounds from correct position. If you obviously "dumped" a round into berm at first position, you can load one round "extra" to have enough to engage all targets. Problem: Cocked wrong gun The hard part is if you loaded the chamber on a long gun and instead need to shoot some other gun first. You can only restage a gun having rounds in the magazine, if it's chamber is empty or has a fired round it it, and you leave the action CLOSED. Doing anything else with rounds in mag tube would be a Minor Safety for allowing a loaded long gun out of your hands in improper condition. So, two ways to fix this. The cleanest way (not necessarily always the lowest time way, though) to fix this is jack out all the rounds without firing any of them, lay the gun down with action open. You may need to pick up all those dropped jacked out rounds for reloading later! Or, you can fire a round from the incorrectly cocked gun, either into berm or at first correct target. Giving you a P for incorrect gun order used. Leave action closed on the fired round. This is "restaging gun for further use" in the rules) Then you can pick up correct gun, fire it, then make safe. Then, you can pick up the incorrectly-cocked long gun that you staged, move if needed, load the gun with however many rounds that you still need to fire, and fire it. Here's the conditions for safely laying down a long gun: It gets complicated. Generally, folks avoid making this error like the plague! It comes with practice, lots of practice, and being sure of each shooting position and the gun order before you begin the stage. Good luck, GJ

I'd take the measure off and clean real well all the internal surfaces of hopper, slide cavity, and the expander/powder drop tube! Anything powder might stick to. Clean with isopropyl alcohol and let dry. Then run a fresh dryer sheet on all those areas to add a little extra anti-static layer to the contact parts. TrailBoss is a low density large flake powder. It is known for not metering real consistently and dropping freely. (PS - that right there is one strong reason (of three) that I load WST powder for everything WB. But yes, you have to have confidence that you are putting a charge in every case. I get that confidence by having a RCBS powder lock-out die in the 550 tool head, meaning I use a combined seat-crimp die at last station. I don't have the diligence to look down in every case when I load over 4000 rounds a month. But those lock-out dies sure do!) Good luck, GJ