El Chapo

I don't know why people keep saying "it's been tried." How? Gen Z people are on tiktok. They are not reading this (or any) forum. When they were born, the internet already existed. Before they became old enough to have an account on social media, social media exploded and they look at it for 16 hours a day. When's the last time you saw anything related to Wild Bunch on Tiktok? If we are serious about reaching Gen Z and Alpha new members, the marketing has to fit the target audience. I am far from an expert on how to do it, and they're half my age, so they're not in my social network. But until I see a critical mass of young adults who are not at a match with their parents, my response to "it's been tried" is that is nonsense. Whatever was tried didn't work because it didn't aim at the target, it just shot aimlessly out into the world. As for condition 1 and movement, it is absolutely essential. It is the change that will make this into a dynamic and exciting shooting sport instead of a game based on a hybrid between movie reenactment and target shooting. I'm sure the movement especially will come with considerable opposition, because the majority of the people shooting this game came from SASS's other game. That is how it started after all. But if we want our own identity, there is one way forward: make it athletic. It's already fast; people comment all the time about how rare it is to have a clean WB match (I'm proud to have two of them). So the next layer is get people's feet moving. Get the sights bouncing and put some long shots in there. Raise the round counts. We have a whole bay, so it's time to use it.

For there to be real growth, there needs to be people under age 38 entering the sport in significant numbers. 38 is the age of the median American in 2026. If we poached a few dozen more cowboy shooters to throw on their 1911 and shoot WB, that is not growth any more than a few more shooters at a side match is growth. Wild Bunch isn't a side match. Tracking how many people below the median age are coming to shoot with us is a big deal. I was actually signed up for EoT but my wife's schedule changed in January, which allowed us to travel for 3 other matches (two of which I got to shoot WB) that we would have otherwise missed but I had to withdraw from EoT. The intention was for her schedule to change after EoT, but somehow there was a miscommunication. I had signed up in August and to say I was bummed at the time would be an understatement. I don't really know anything about how the stages were constructed at EoT but there's no reason why WB should not be a dynamic run and gun. In the match I just came from on Sunday, the total number of shots was 305 over 14 stages. The winner did it in 227.34 seconds, which means he shot an average of 1.34 rounds per second he was on the clock. We have a gun that can be easily reloaded and shot more, so why not take advantage of that?

What is the median age of a Wild Bunch competitor in 2026 vs. a few years ago? I think that's a more interesting data point than the stuff you're posting. There were 235 shooters at the 1911 match I just came back from in Mesa. Has any Wild Bunch match anywhere ever had 235 shooters?

231 is an excellent choice for 9mm (even better in 9mm than .45 Auto). 4.7-4.8 grains with a Hornady 115 rn at 1.100" puts it at the upper pressure range for 9mm, so I wouldn't push it more than that. The 5.1 grain load exceeds +P numbers. At 4.7 you will be making 136 pf, which is just about perfect. Colt does not use ramped barrels for 9mm 1911s so I would stick to round nose bullet designs. My non-ramped 9mm doesn't like flat bullets at all. I have had really good luck with the Mec Gar magazines recently. Before that I was using Tripp Research magazines for a long time.

Quickload puts the number at 3.2-3.4 grains, which generates about 3,000 PSI of chamber pressure. I doubt any powder is going to burn clean at that pressure.

I don't have one of those either. Although it's mostly because I'm too cheap to buy more holsters. And my holster box is full.

If I was asked, I'd say no, which is why I don't have any singles stacks with optics cuts.

Wish I could, but I'll be at the Western States Single Stack the weekend before, and I didn't think I could swing both. I will still be shooting a 1911 along with 300+ others!

I wouldn't be against loaded starts with the shotgun, too, but yes, primarily the pistol.

I've repeatedly said that I am not on board with all the obsession with the 150 pf but I'm not against it either. If they want me to shoot 200 power factor, I'll do it. It will change nothing. If they'd let me shoot 150 pf ammo out of my .357 rifle, I'd start casting heavier bullets and load the ammo tomorrow. It does not matter. The last time I was chronoed, I went 179. The required PF was 165. Any points I dropped were not from hotter ammo, they were on me. Couldn't agree more that we need to poach from other disciplines. In a way I selfishly hope we don't, because some of those guys are really good. But before that has any chance of success, we need loaded starts and loaded movement. Loading your gun on the clock isn't a sport. I think it can even be dangerous. It kept me away for my first 3 years in SASS. Now I realize how much fun WB is and so I make the best of it. But loading your gun on the clock has got to go. There are precisely zero other shooting sports that start with an empty gun (at least commonly, there are unloaded starts occasionally, and they're universally disliked there, too). I know long time shooters of WB may not like it or think I'm crazy because I keep bringing it up, but it isn't a trivial point. Loading a gun is not a competition and shouldn't be made part of the scored part of any form of competition.

If it doesn't happen, I predict SASS pulling the plug on WB completely someday. This either becomes a dynamic, athletic shooting sport of its own that can poach shooters from other disciplines and outside of the shadow of CAS, or it dies completely. I see no other realistic way forward. I predict also that stage times will be indistinguishable between Classic and whatever we're calling the "new" WB. I don't have a big rifle so I'll be staying put. Not against the Classic thing, just don't see the point of buying another rifle. If I come across a used one, I may be very tempted, however.

Dream big. Now that the guys who wanted 150 pf for rifles got their way, I'm dreaming big. Loaded starts, loaded movement. And after that, 8 round mags.

All of this seems like good news. Maybe the next round we'll get loaded starts and movement.

That is BS too, although I didn't realize either of those were impermissible. Although I don't agree, I will continue to play the game no matter how they make the rules, but the rationale for many of them is lost on me.

I find it very strange that people are so opposed to shotgun makeups. I just don't get it.

If it doesn't fit dry, it isn't going to fit greased. Send that garbage back and follow the instructions of the people above, who told you what tools you'll need to repair your existing magazine tube.

In that case, you must not know any custom 1911 smiths used by any serious competitive shooter, because I can give you a laundry list of people who do so, and literally everyone who is winning (and probably everyone within the top 10-20) the Open/Limited/Limited Optics/Limited 10 nationals is using a gun with a 2 pound or less trigger from one of those people. In IDPA, the winners in the Carry Optics and ESP divisions are doing the same. Unless your "action" sport is something besides USPSA, IPSC, Steel Challenge, IDPA, and maybe some I'm forgetting, literally everyone who is winning is shooting something you didn't know existed until you made these posts in this thread. And many are using 15 pound mainsprings because they want the absolute lightest trigger, and the only way to get that is with perfect sear geometry, the right sear spring tuning, and the lightest mainspring their primers will tolerate. Maybe it was different 50 years ago or something, but these sports are incredibly competitive, and the winners will do anything to win, including using trigger pulls lighter than the gun that is in their hand, among other minor equipment advantages to have every competitive edge. And there is nothing wrong with that, as if the guns are kept clean, a 2 pound trigger is absolutely reliable in a 19/2011, it just needs to be in the hand of someone responsible enough to keep it that way.

The hammer's pressure on the sear is created by the mainspring. The friction between the sear and hammer is a function of a small amount of pressure from the sear spring and much more pressure from the hammer hooks on the sear. Lowering the energy stored in the mainspring absolutely reduces the amount of force it takes to trip the sear, as it's simple physics, less force from the mainspring = less friction, all else equal. You can observe this by installing a lighter mainspring in your gun and testing the trigger pull with a simple scale, which will confirm what I'm saying here for absolute certain. You will observe a lighter trigger pull with a lighter mainspring every time. Also, your claims about the underlying physics are not correct. The force on those surfaces is not only the sear spring, as the force of them mainspring, pushing up through the hammer strut to the hammer, supplies additional force between the sear and the hammer hooks. The sear spring is not the only source of force for that friction, in fact, it's minor compared to the comparatively massive energy stored in the mainspring. I don't know what a "trigger saddle" is either, but if you're talking about the trigger bow, the leaf of the sear spring that holds the sear has nothing really to do with that; the disconnector leg pushes the trigger bow forward when the shooter releases the trigger. Your claim about the hammer not moving when the trigger is pulled is also partially true, that depends on the sear/hammer relationship, and depending on the angle they meet, the trigger absolutely can move the trigger rearward when the trigger is pulled. Obviously that is not an ideal hammer and sear relationship, but depending on the angle of the hammer/sear junction, the sear can push the hammer backward further when the trigger is pulled if that angle is not cut correctly. 3.5 pounds is also about double what serious competitors are using. If a lighter trigger than that is desired, trigger pulls under 2 pounds are easily achieved, assuming the parts are fit correctly. I consider 3.5 pounds to be pretty heavy for a gun used in competition; the gun I shot two matches with last weekend is a 2.5 and many people prefer them lighter than that.

I doubt you'll have problems loading Titewad that light. A friend of mine loads for his 8 year old Buckaroo son, his loads are something like 9 grains of WST with 3/4 oz of shot and the pink wad. They are crazy light and will knock down the popper if he kid gets a good hit. 11-12 grains of Titewad will almost certainly do the job if you want light. They might even be lighter than 1000 fps. If your current loads are 1100, a grain lighter than that will probably achieve what you're looking for, 2 grains almost certainly so. Certainly there is a modest change in trigger pull from a lighter mainspring in a 1911 and that would generally translate to other guns. It's far less than changing the geometry of the sear/hammer relationship, but lighter springs for a lighter trigger pull are par for the course for almost any gun. The key when I do it is to go no lighter than 100% reliability allows for. Outside of CAS/WBAS, I don't like guns addicted to federal primers, so I don't run the lightest possible springs for guns that aren't manually operated like we use in these games.

Would it be approved or is it approved? Maybe they will change the rules, but until then, no it is not.

I think this is just an example of the lack of an Oxford comma rendering a sentence confusing. WBAS does not allow 1911s in any cartridge except God's, 45 Auto.

Those are all great news.

do share!!!

My 03A3 with the loads I described has basically zero recoil. What is the rifle, 9 pounds? A 185 grain bullet at 1600 fps is at beast a glorified .357 Magnum.

I'm using a Lee 185 grain bullet that is marketed for 303 British. I size it with the .310 Lee sizer and powdercoat/install gas check. This is it: https://bulletmatch.com/bullets/lee-c312-185-1r-90371