Baltimoreed11754

Smaller ar500 targets and shooting from one corner to the opposite to increase the range would make it more of a challenge. I use these small sass marshals in my containment, about 35 yds off my deck.

The easiest thing would be to swap one of the non problematic bbls from one of your other pistols to the Iver Johnson. See how that does then pick up another Rock Island bbl whenever you get around to it. I use an old lee bulgebuster die also that repairs the damage to the brass caused by my rough handling .45 pcc’s. As an aside we are supposed to shoot our first post covid lockdown WB match Saturday and I’m going to use my new to me [older] Auto Ordnance 1911. I do like the bigger sights than what’s on my original 1911. Shot it yesterday and hit everything that I shot at even my cas rifle targets.

Try a pair of slimmer checkered grips, might make your 1911 easier to manipulate. Guess that they’re sass legal.

First thing is my stance, I’ve always shot cas duelist [rh and a lh crossdraw], vaqueros or 1911 doesn’t matter so I always stand an if I was shooting my long guns with me almost facing the right side of the range. Not quite 90 degrees maybe 75 degrees. Standing this way allows me to pick up my rifle or sg and shoulder it without moving my feet. To shoot my pistol i shoot across my body turning at the waist. My wrist is locked and gun held with a fairly tight grip. My left hand is over my heart until I’m about done with the string when it is getting another magazine from a pouch. I drop the mty mag with my rt thumb and insert the loaded one. I might drop the slide with the release or with a slide pull. I don’t know if it makes a difference other than the coarse vs fine motor skills discussion. You should not have to pluck your magazine from the gun, it should fall out when the mag release is pressed. Cut a coil on your release spring if it’s too stiff. Make some primerless dummy rds and start practicing. On the range load your mags with a single rd except load 2 in the one in the gun, draw, cycle, fire, drop the mty, already have grabbed a loaded mag, insert it, drop slide, fire, repeat. Smooth is fast.

I built this many years ago and used it in a couple of my cas clubs WB shoots long before there was a SASS WB. I started back on it and built a more correct tripod a few years ago but recently I decided to redo it into a gas gun [propane and air]. I found a guy on the web that was selling gas kits and seeing his work I was impressed. It initially had battery powered motors in it to cycle the bolt and bbl in and out and a boom box that played a loop tape of a machine gun firing when the trigger was pulled. It was crude, heavy, not a very accurate copy but was fun prop. My most ambitious prop till now. A poor mans 1917. So I’ve recently ripped it apart and started on it for a third time. I added 4 inches to the recvr and narrowed it, I’m also making the water jacket a little smaller but not as small as it should be. Poetic license. I’ve riveted the recvr supports on the sideplates and built the trigger assembly. I made it so I can get to the switch in case it acts up. Im using my local weld shop for that part as I don’t weld. Working on the charging handle now. Still waiting on some aluminum and steel metal to show up. Cannot get my photos to load. Just tried 20 times. I really do have pictures. Just posted a photo of my rugers on the sass forum , same exact photo won’t post here. Whats the secret? Tried browse and pulled a photo of my wife from my MacBook cloud storage and it accepted her.???

Mustang Gregg, like what your doing there at your club monthly shoots. When we do our WB we also have non WB shooters participate. They shoot 10 and WB shoots 15-20 per stage and everyone engages the same rifle and sg target arrays. I wish I could come out and shoot and see how you guys make out. Good luck on your WB match. Give’em hell, Pike!

Nice rig but I really like the nickled 1911.

Thats a dumb movie?? How can you compete in WB and not watch the film? Duh, watching the movie SHOULD BE the Wild Bunch shooters meeting. Give’em hell, Pike.

I guess any gun game is a good thing if it expands the shooter base but there already are great .22 gun games such as the Rimfire Challenge and silhouette events [ZSA allow .22 also] so in all honesty I don’t get your Mild Bunch idea. I have a .22 Colt conversion that I used as a stage gun when we shot out first Wild Bunch match [years prior to the establishment of Wild Bunch] which was a monthly club match of 5 scenarios actually based on the move that I created not the run and gun cowboy ipsc that happens today. To me the fun of WB is in the realness of wild bunch, real 1911s and 6 rds of 12 ga without reloading, not some watered way down version.

I use both lead and PC. PC bullets won’t lead your bbl and can be cast of softer alloy. You might have to open the case mouths up a touch more as you don’t want to shave the coating and expose the lead. Imo they are superior to lubed bullets for cas, I don’t know about long range accuracy though. I cast pistol bullets and do both, pc and lubrisize but prefer the pc method.

We had our BAM match. 4 cowboys and cowgirls and 10 boltgunners. Cold grey day with rain starting after 4 1/2 stages so we quit early. I used my 03 Springfield, M12 and 1911. That 10 rd gamer British gun was prevalent with mausers next, there was an 03-A3 and Krag carbine. I ran my 03 mad minute style with my middle finger pulling the trigger while holding the bolt with thumb and index finger. The club was running a turkey shoot so we all walked next berm and tried it. Probably the only time in history that a m12 trench gun was used in a turkey shoot. I didn’t think to mount the bayonet. The guy that I loaned my old 97 to won a turkey on our relay. And came in first for the match. A good time.

We sre supposed to do a BAMM next month at our monthly match. We will run it along with a cas match so pistol and sg targets/order will be the same for everyone while the bamm guys will engage different smaller rifle targets as we don’t have a very deep berm to shoot in. If I shoot my Krag I’ll use DA revolvers, if I use my 1903 I’ll use my 1911.

We run WB [2-3 times a year] and cas at the same match to accommodate all shooters. Rifle and sg target/ order are the same for everyone. Handgun targets [for the first 10 rds] are the same for everyone but the WB shooters will shoot 5-10 more. Repeating the initial 10 rd sequence or moving forward to engage the rifle targets with their pistols. Of course cas sg is loaded on the clock while WB sg loads at the table. We occasionally ground the 1911 [slide locked] to use a long gun and the go back to the 1911 to complete the stage. Good luck on your match Abe.

The purpose of penalizing a shooter is what? To make the gun game we play fair, keep things honest but mostly keep us SAFE. It’s the shooters responsibility to maintain control of his firearm at all times whether it’s BELIEVED to be loaded or not. This translates to absolute control of the chunk of lead that’s going down his barrel and down range with a wide margin of error IN CASE there is an accidental discharge. That absolute control means that a mishandled dropped gun or knocked off a prop [by the shooter as opposed to a prop failure] long gun earns a stage dq. The purpose of the dq is to teach the shooter that gun safety is more important than his gun handling speed and that his carelessness will not go unpunished. Fast and safe are not opposites but as in anything the faster you go the easier it becomes to screw things up. There should be serious consequences of having a stage dq, and by dickering around with the penalties and scoring so that it doesn’t matter in the overall match scoring is wrong. The top guns of any match should be the guy/gal with the fastest time, they probably will have misses, maybe even a ‘p’ but with no safety dq’s. Just my 2 cents.

I don’t have a problem with total time or rank scoring. For a small monthly match total time works just fine and for a big state or regional rank scoring is ok but a stage dq should knock you out of any awards other than fastest stage awards. If you were moving so darn fast that you messed up bad enough to ‘win’ a stage dq I don’t care how fast you shot the other 9 stages. You didn’t earn a spot in the shootout imo.

I use a FL rod in my Gold Cup/Caspian build but prefer the flat recoil springs in my other 5 inch 1911s. The FL and flat springs feel smoother to me and I’ve always thought that the extra weight and guide rod helped accuracy wise in a pistol with big adjustable sights.

When we shoot bolt actions at ECSASS we shoot along with the regular cas shooters. Our targets are a bit farther out but not much. Personally I’d rather see smaller targets. Pistol and sg targets are the same for everybody.

I build 2 inch 12 ga shells that allow my 6 round altered 1897s and M12 to hold 7 in their mags. I started tinkering with them a couple of years ago out of curiosity but they do work. The only gamer thing that I do. But I have noticed my M12 doing this trick and attributed it to my shorties but now I know it’s gun related not ammo related. I have tried to train myself to tilt the sg to the left slightly during the chambering action. Sometimes I can run it smooth and other times I hiccup. Doesn’t seem to have any other issues. If you look in cascity WB forum ‘7rds in a magazine approved by WB committee’ thread I describe them.

Picked up a nickled Cimarron 1911 this year. I replaced the slide stop, safety and skinny hammer with gi checkered parts, like the wide spur a lot better. Feeds my 200 gr rnfp cowboy bullets just fine. I’ve not shot it in a WB match just my sass/wasa club’s monthly matches. Very nice pistol.

Last Chance, not trying to ruffle yours or anyone’s feathers. I have been to a local clubs monthly match and my [not as local] clubs monthly match many times. But I have not been able to get to what I would call a regional or state sized WB match. I haven’t been to anything other than monthly shoots since my wifes stroke 12 years ago. Unfortunately I lost her this past July so I’m hoping that in 2019 I will be able to get farther afield and attend some bigger shoots. What WB events on the east coast would you recommend for 2019? I’m sorta in the middle here in eastern NC.

Any way to generate a listing here of monthly WB shoots with contact people? Would be a big help. While an out of state match might be too hard to get to a semi local match might not.

I don’t have a way to copy it but I’ll go by staples and see what they would charge to make a copy, it’s only 22 pages which would be 11 copied pages. CAS is a gun sport that is very competitor age based not like ipsc [young male], idpa [everybody regardless of age or sex], bullseye [young], icore [variety of shooters]. CAS shooters are mostly old folks who liked playing cowboy and never grew up. When we all pass the sport will definitely decline if not end for lack of match attendance. WB/C3G however is pulling in cas and ipsc shooters who want to do something different with their cas firearm investment. I shot ipsc years ago with my stock 1911s and was only a C/D class shooter. I was shooting against race guns and equipment and wasn’t competitive so I moved to cas. After I left ipsc it created a stock 1911 class which would have leveled the field a bit. My impression is that WB and C3G are in decline. Try to find a match. As I said on the other thread the ‘modern’ 1911 shooter who is all about speed is completely opposite to the old fart shooting his stock 1911/A1 who is just having fun. It’s not just 1 vs 2 hands or fixed vs adjustable sights. There’s a completely different mindset, the difference between the mousefart shooting gamers in sass and the guys with .45s loaded with black. The difference there is that the love of the old west’s guns, gear, outfits and fun atmosphere outweighs the gamer’s gaming. Honestly I’m not seeing that spark of fun in WB that I see in cas. Feels like an ipsc match to me. The economy definitely affects attendance and traveling for big matches but shouldn’t affect local ones. Would love to see a reorganization of WB/C3G with a definite devision between the two. Plain vanilla 1911s for one and whatever you want 1911s for the other. The big issue there is that C3G is much more advanced than WB. WB is a safer sport for old farts with 1911s. I once submitted a proposal to sass for a Military Category which would have allowed DAs and 1911s with the shooter in an appropriate uniform, too radical of an idea so it went nowhere.

Boggus, didn’t mean to get carried away and certainly hope no feelings were hurt. Opinions and a.....s, everybody’s got one. I’ve certainly paid my dues in sass, been to a bunch and created a bunch of matches for local clubs that I’ve been involved with over the years. IMO, WB was an evolutionary offshoot of sass which we all know is a fantasy gun game with costumes, big hats, antique weapons [sA’s] with old long guns, WB should have continued that fantasy only using slightly less antique weapons [1911/ A1s] and overlapping long guns. Cowboy 3-gun should have become the offshoot of WB which would have allowed the ‘modern’ 1911s and speed gear with a minimum of costuming if at all. C3G could use the same range, steel, props etc of sass and WB but with the emphasis on the speed that the shooters want. You mention cost, 1911/A1 clones are maybe 1/3 to 1/4 of what a Kimber, SA, etc ‘modern’ pistol cost and for what we use them for probably work better. I have always shot duelist but don’t have issues with the use of both hands as many of us are not the men or women we once were and need both hands to safely work the 1911 pistol. M12s in military or civilian dress are cool. Speeking of dress, the one WB group that I’ve shot with were very casual but in reality if you’re shooting a ‘modern’ 1911 why would you give a darn about being dressed in anything except modern clothes. Duh. The Western Action Shootist Association is unfortunately a defunct shooting org created in 1998 to counter the private ownership of SASS by The Wild Bunch. [in hindsight The Wild Bunch have created a truly viable sport and with the creation of Founders Ranch hopefully cas will never end.] I’ve shot at a couple of actual WASA matches and loved the variety of firearms used. The creators of WASA felt that no one should ‘own’ cas for one thing, they also felt that double action revolvers and self loaders existed before 1900 and should also be allowed. They wrote the handgun rules to allow two SAs or fixed sighted military style DAs loaded with 5 rds each or a combination of one DA and a self loader loaded with 5 rds each. They also allow the stoking of the pump sg on the line with as many rds as needed. Not any faster but a lot more fun. The safety and costuming rules were basically the same. My club uses both sass and wasa rules, shooters choice. I usually carry a New Service or N frame Smith in my crossdraw and a 1911 in my strong side holster ala Lee Marvin in The Professionals. We also do WB matches several times a year along with BAM matches which I suggested in 2017 before I’d ever heard of BAMM. We are not affiliated with sass and are able to do whatever we want. I have a WASA rule book from 2002 if you have any questions, no links I’m afraid.

Beg to differ, have been to EOT before WB existed. My wife and I had a swell time. Got to shoot a Gatling and a Maxim too. Also have been to umpteen state and half a dozen sass regionals, NE and SE. Even drove from NC to Cody for the Wyoming state shoot. Got to see Yellowstone, Mt Rushmore and Deadwood on that trip. I’m still a card carrying dues paying member, haven’t given up on sass, just like the rules in WASA better. And think WB could be better. Thanks for listening to my thoughts. Baltimore Ed sass#11754

Chance, When WB was created allowing ‘modern’ 1911s, [i’m talking about anything on a 1911 or 1911A1 pistol other than the absolute basic government model-or it’s copies] it lost it’s panache imo. Holsters and mag pouches cut down for speed shouldn’t be allowed either. Keeping Wild Bunch TRUE to the movie that inspired it was it’s real draw and what excited shooters and grew the sport. They got to be Dutch, Tector, Lyle or Pike for a few minutes shooting the guns that the movie Wild Bunch used. Allowing modern 1911s ‘gamed’ the darn thing from the very start. It’s not the same thing as cas modern or traditional by any means. There are plenty of gun sports where ‘modern’ 1911s are not an issue, certainly appropriate and even necessary to be even slightly competitive along with the fast holster/mag rigs. When cas shooters say they don’t want 1911s shooting with them because they’re not cowboy, I feel the same way when I see ‘modern’ 1911s shooting WB because they’re not true to the film. I honestly have not been to a real WB match. I’ve often been to a local club that holds monthly WB matches with way too close targets that I’ve come in second overall as a duelest just about every time that I’ve gone and of course my clubs WB/cas matches with targets farther out that is an actual challenge to shoot. I’m hoping to get to a large genuwine WB shoot somewhere next year. I don’t know how you could fix it as the horse is out of the barn but I’d eliminate the gamer guns and rigs, move the targets farther out, equalize the speed and accuracy components to make it not just all about speed. Make costuming as important as it is in cas too.