Baltimoreed11754

Never understood the logic of that rule having shot a garand match [my second] a while ago. You need the sling even more when you’re standing.

Got some backordered from starline. Who knows when.

I cannot post photos on this forum to save my life. Thought that I could at one time. The .30-06 1917 Browning Water Cooled is the star of The Wild Bunch.

Dusty will know.

What’s the difference between a real one and a repro one besides [the serial numbers, flaming bomb and US stamps] the obvious? Is a repro [norinco] 1897 trenchgun legal? The 1866 and 1873 rifles we use are for the most part repros. The value and rarity of real pump trench guns make the use of a real one as a WB toy highly unlikely. I would also point out that Crazy Lee’s M12 is a riotgun with a sling. There are anachronisms in The Wild Bunch, the biggest is the 1917 WC. So what. Don’t call authenticity about shotguns and then allow any 1911 in the modern category.

I would blame your lightweight frame for a lot of your issues. You’ve really got to lock the auto down using one hand and a light gun is even harder to control which will cause cycling issues. I had one that cracked at the slide lock cutout, sold it to a bud for his .22 build. Get an older Auto Ordnance or a Rock Island. I shoot traditional too and initially used a heinz early Colt slide/essex frame that I had built but then added a beautiful nickel Rock Island sold by Cimarron and my latest was an old AO 1911. I put medium to long triggers on my 1911s and like flat recoil springs. Good luck.

We run our WB, DA or BAMM or a combination of and monthly cas matches at the same time. Shotgun and at least 10 pistol targets are the same for everyone. Extra 1911 targets [WB] and or boltgun targets [bAMM][same order of engagement as cas] will be different. Everyone plays. I’ll repeat Elwood, don’t be afraid to experiment.

Though I’ve been a member of sass since 1996 [still am] I don’t really shoot sass anymore and seldom if ever visit their website. My loyalty to sass if from the many great people, matches and great times that my wife and I have had over the years. I prefer visiting the CAScity forum. There are multiple subforums for any cas firearm, gunsmithing, leatherwork and most period shooting genres out there. Even a Wild Bunch sub forum. There is always lots of interesting positive activity, good threads, smart posts and the political crap is kept under control. The best cas/ reenactor forum out there. IMO WASA is the compromise between NCOWS/SASS and WB. It allows all of us to participate every month. If the WB Forum wants to join something join CAScity. You will certainly get more exposure. My only gripe here is how dead it is but I enjoy my 1911 and M12 and will eventually get to a real dedicated WB match and might even get back into sa’s at some point.

My first 1911 experience was putting a Colt NM slide on a Caspian frame back in the 70s. While hard it wasn’t impossible. I’ve built a couple others using a 1911 ww1 slide and a 1991A1 slide on Essex frames. It’s been years since I’ve messed with one. The last was the Colt 1991 slide on a frame that the dust cover was cut too short that I put a Recover grip unit on. Strip your frame and carry it to a big gunshow and look for s 1911 parts guy. See if he’ll let you try his used slides on your frame. There are 460 results for 1911 slides on fleabay. Good luck.

Artemus, I can’t tell you how impressed I was with your shooting. As a duelist myself [always have been] I’m always pleased to see a shooter shoot his 1911 correctly and fast. Very smooth reloads too. I’ve never seen anyone use the M12’s slam fire feature the way that you did. Something that I will need to try out on my plate rail. Good shooting sir.

Who is the next to last shooter in the clip? Shot duelist and slam fired his sg. Very slick. Would love to get out there.

I’ve always shot mine with flat hsgs but after buying an older Thompson AO 1911 with an arched hsg I liked it so now my main match 1911s have arched ones. I also use long or mid length triggers in my 1911s. At 6’4 I have large hands with long fingers. To the op, you might want to also ask about trigger length in your survey as they also play a part in how well or poorly you can operate your 1911.

Bought a couple of M12s in the last couple years. The first was rebuilt into a trench gun and runs like a top. But the second that I rebuilt into a riot gun has an issue. It cycles, feeds, ejects, fires, inertia lock releases, action slide lock releases the slide and it looks great. BUT, if I pull back on the action slide handle to cycle the gun but have not fired it or hit the slide lock button it jams up and takes some wrestling to get the handle forward again. It feel like it’s slipping by something and then jamming. But once I get it unstuck I then can push in the slide lock while pushing forward on the handle and everything works fine. Doesn’t do it every time. I don’t have this issue with the trenchgun. If I pull back on the handle [without firing or pushing in the slide lock] it just stops solid like it hits something in the gun. Nothing sticks or jams. Any suggestions? I might try to swap the trigger assembly's between them just out of curiosity.

Make sure that the shell stop screws haven’t come out. My 97 norinco trenchgun acted up on me and one of the screws had fallen out. The stop was still in place but feeding was spotty. Regular Winchester 97 screws are too small, norincos are metric.

You do make a valid point however I have seen several high speed low drag shooters go down due to the slick soled cowboy boots that we are supposed to wear, I’ve seen a revolver get drawn and the bbl catch the overhang of a saloon bar prop, leave the shooters hand and land on the bar. Don’t think sass is doing away with boots or props because they are unsafe. I would also add that the guy who chooses to compete with a ‘66 or ‘73 musket with their 26 or 30 inch bbls is NOT the high speed gamer with their short bbled, short stroked .38 and is shooting for the pure fun that cas is. Besides how often does anyone actually move with a rifle in hand. It’s staged, shot and restaged 99% of the time. Really don’t see a problem.

Never understood the prohibition of slings on main match rifles. The Winchester 1866 and 1873 were offered by Winchester to buyers in whatever bbl and stock configuration they wanted including military length bbls, buttstocks and forestocks. Imo military configured ‘66 and ‘73 muskets should be allowed to wear a sling, if for no other reason than for the look. They don’t do anything to give the shooter an advantage and in fact might be a disadvantage as added weight and a potential snag point.

If you’re having issues inserting a mag it’s not a mag release spring issue it’s more the geometry of the release and how the edge of the magazine engages it to push it out of the way to allow the mag to go all the way in and lock. You also have to have enough spring pressure to retain the mag when the gun cycles. There’s no real reason to reduce this spring very much if you’re using two hands to operate the gun as the weak hand thumb should have to trouble pushing the mag release. As far as trigger reset problems remove the reduced power junk and go back to as the gun was designed springs for a match or two and see what happens. Though you might want to polish the bows of your trigger and the grooves that they slide in on the odd chance there’s a burr but I’m betting it’s your reduced springs. A WB pistol does not need to be set up like a bullseye target pistol shooting one handed at the 10X ring at 25 yds.

Run the ones that fail your gauge through a bulge buster to see if it makes a difference in the grouping and cycling. I run mine through a buster as my Thompson and AR pcc’s really beat the brass up. On the first stage of our WB match last weekend I had a jam halfway into my first mag [we still do 5 rds as cas shooters also shoot and it keeps it simpler for everyone]. Swapped mags and finished the stage. I stopped using the ??mag and switched from 200 gr swc to 225 rnfp for the rest of the match and had no more issues. Other than 2 misses. Only using ss Chip McCormick mags. Got home and tried another magazine of swc with no problems. Go figure.

I am wondering though about a sling on a ‘97 trenchgun. They have sling swivels and are supposed to have slings.

If you take a peek at the Krag Collectors Association Forum there are several threads about Krag Chargers. There are basically 2 styles, one that the shooter uses his fingers to push the rounds from the charger into the gun and the one like I built that runs on gravity where pushing a paddle lifts a tab and allows the rounds to fall into the gun. Check out the mad minute shooting matches where they are running Krags on utube. Amazing shooting.

Thanks, BD.

I built a 5 rd charger years ago and I’d like to post a photo but it won’t let me. I touch choose file and the other box doesn’t come up.

Guys, working on a M12 riot gun build and need some information. My donor is a 1925 gun that has a polychoke and a cracked shortened stock. I have another stock for it. My question concerns the slidelock. Pushing forward on the slide or after firing the gun the release works correctly however if you pull back on the slide without firing first the slide jams and locks the gun up. It feels like something is binding and takes a bit to push forward to unbind it. But then it works fine. What is causing the binding? Do I need to replace the slidelock? The bbl takedown works fine and it feeds, fires and ejects ok however the ejection could be stronger. I’ve not gone into the recvr yet. I did cut and face the bbl to 19 inches the other day. I will have to refinish and restain the stock to match the nice pump handle. Would like to do a sling on it even though riot guns didn’t usually have slings but I have found old photos of a few police guns that did. Thanks ahead.

Staying true to the movie I shoot duelist. My first WB gun had an old 1911 slide but with an Essex frame, HS bbl and GI parts. My second was one of the Colt 1918 repros, shot it in a few matches. A little too nice to shoot a lot. Currently I’m experimenting with an older Auto Ordnance 1911a1. Will shoot it next Saturday at our monthly match which will also be a WB. Shot our WB match today, only had 2 misses with the AO 1911 and some ammo issues on stage 1 but clean with my Marlin 1894 and M12 trenchgun. Changed ammo and was clean for 4 stages. We had a big crowd, 18 shooters and about half shot 1911s. Thinking that I was second place WB. The rain held off until we were done putting everything away. A very enjoyable shoot. Next month is BAM with double actions. My 2 buds and I are planning on using Krags before lunch and then an ‘03 [me] and Enfields [them] after lunch. A good time.

A properly staked on GI front sight should not come loose. My trusty old heinz WB 1911 has a WW1 slide with, I’m pretty sure, its original front sight [GI parts, HS bbl but an Essex frame]. I shoot duelist. Glad you figured out what was locking your pistol up Phil. I compete from a cinematic/ historic standpoint than a competition one. ‘Give/em hell, Pike!’