JJ

Mr. JG Thank you for your answer. I read your response over a few times last night and again this morning. Ran out time yesterday for responses. Will follow your advise VERY closely. Ordered a set of diamond drilling devices for the rotary last evening to finish off this portion of gun project. The place the bits were ordered from say 'Delivery on Friday'. We'll see. Now thinking it is time to replace the factory barrel. It rubs hard on many places. Its the only thing left to replace on this gun. Again - thank you Respectfully - J.J.

Mr. GJ and Mr. Eyesa JG - thank you for your quick response. Used Titewad quite a bit when first starting shooting Cowboy in 2003. Back in those day shot 45lc. Used Titewad until joining the Juneau Gun and Trap Club. Was there that I discovered called 'Clays'. Clays, from the Gun and Trap Club, cost $69 for a 8lb container back then. I never looked back. With what little I/we could afford back then, as much as afforded was spent on powder, primers and shot. Now that I am reverting to a powder that was used earlier, I did look to see if there was a shotgun load for Titegroup. Looking in Hodgdon's Loading Center (and other places) found the Titegroup settings for the 7/8oz load. However, could not find anything for a 3/4oz load. Any suggestions?? Also - thank you for the note that High Gun is the same as Titewad. Did not know that. Folks learn many good things on the SASS WB Forum. Eyesa - Why was there such a difference between the 3.9 and 4.0 grains of Titegroup? I pondered that while looking at the numbers displayed on my iPhones app for the chronograph and quickly came to the conclusion that had absolutely no idea why the difference. My reloading machines are Dillon 750s. I set the powder slide for the loads, weighed them on my RCBS Balance Beam Scale that was acquired in 1976 and reloaded 14 rounds of each load using the same weighing procedure. Still no real idea why the difference. Did decide to use the 4.0 load for my future 45acp loads when using Titegroup. Appreciate both of you responding here and a large thank you goes to both of you and anyone else reading this thread. J.J.

Not so sure if this the right place to ask this question however here it goes. A number of months ago purchased a stock GI Rock Island 1911 45acp with the purpose of making it into a 'Modern Category Shootin' Iron'. Many months later I very close to getting this gun ready to use in a WB Match. I just one problem yet to solve and it relates to the title of this thread. I purchased a Wilson Combat Semi-Extended Slide Stop for this gun. It looked cool on their website. Did not know this at the time of ordering that part. This slide stop does not come with the little drilled dimple hole on the end of the slide stop. The slide stops on my Colt MK IV and two Remington R1's all have a dimple drilled into the ends of the slide stop. Well that's not totally a correct statement. The Colt MK IV has a little grove cut into the end of the slide stop. I believe what the dimples/grove purpose is for is to hold the slide stop in position while firing so that the slide does not prematurely slip up and lock the slide back until the magazine is empty. It's amazing what Mr. Google can answer when asked the question of why the Wilson Combat Semi-Extended Slide Stop does not have the little dimple. Its answer was that Wilson Combat does not believe the dimple is required if the plunger spring is strong enough to hold the Wilson Slide Stop into the correct position until the magazine is empty. Fast forward a few weeks after the frustration of the slide locking back prematurely on numerous occasions and then discovering the original RI plunger spring was a little shorter (worn out??) than the springs in my other 1911's. Wilson Combat new stainless steel plunger assemblies were ordered and installed. Today while testing new ammo loads, the darn slide locked back while bullets were still in the magazine. So much for the thought that new plunger assemblies would fix the problem . . . . . Well - to me there are three solutions: 1) Place the original Rock Island Slide Stop back into the gun. It has the little dimple drilled into it. 2) Order another cool looking extended slide stop release from a different company that has the dimple drilled on the stop. 3) Find a way to drill a little dimple in the end of the Wilson Combat Slide Stop without spending another $75 dollars for purchase and shipping of a different slide stop. Any solutions on how to drill this little dimple would be greatly appreciated. I did attempt to drill a dimple into the end of the Wilson Combat Slide Stop. As I thought would happen, the bit just danced all around the end of the slide stop without biting. I thought perhaps could use a spring loaded punch for a marker and then with a carbide bit just tap a little dimple in?? Will be free to admit, I am not a real 1911 mechanic. I know enough to be dangerous and (more importantly) to severely limit my use of dremels on guns. I enjoy the experience of learning new things and have had quite a bit of good advice from others on this forum. Any advice on how to correctly do this dimple thing would be appreciated. Much easier to ask for help than to spend another arm and leg on parts I have messed up. As another passing note about this project gun, am convinced when this project is finally completed probably could have purchased a new Kimber for less money :-). However, what would be the fun in that! J.J.

Fully realizing that this is an older thread, over the last couple of days have been experimenting with new loads for the 45acp. For years my go to powder was Bullseye. I loaded, thousands upon thousands of 45acp, 200gn RNHB BearCreek Bullets with 4.5gns of Bullseye. Of course Bullseye is now impossible to find. Some years ago I acquired 10lbs of WST when it wasn't too expensive. After the Bullseye ran out started using the WST. With the WST quickly found out my main match 45acp shot with a softer recoil (and recovery for shooting the reset) with the 230gn RN vs the 200gn RNHB. The load I used for WST was 230gn RN and 4.7gns of the WST. I like that load. Around here it gives me a PF of 158. Sadly WST, around here, has gone to over $60 a pound. While I still have way over 9 pounds of WST left, I wondered just how high can it go? Again, over many years, I have been using Titegroup for my 9mm. So I thought I might try the Titegroup on my 45acp. Around here Titegroup is going for around the $42 mark. $42 vs $60. Big Difference for the long haul. Yesterday I loaded some Titegroup rounds for my 45acp with 3.9gns and 4.0gns. This morning I went out and used the brand new Competition Electronics Prochrono DLX Chronograph I won as a door prize at the AZ Cowboys Shooters Assn two day match at Ben Avery in early February. That chrono is REALLY nice. Again thank you ACSA!! Here are the results: 3.9gns Titegroup, 230gn RN BearCreek Bullet, 75 degrees and 4,800 elevation. 751, 787, 718, 727 and 758 fps. Average 748fps. PF = 172. 4.0gns Titegroup, 230gn RN BearCreek Bullet, 75 degrees and 4,800 elevation. 736, 733, 721, 725 and 739fps. Average 726fps. PF = 166. With what little I know about this reloading stuff (am constantly being accused of thinking outside of the box) and experimenting with different powders, I was surprised at the consistency of the 4.0 vs 3.9 load for the 45acp. I did paper another 5 shots of both loads. Offhand, at 30' was able to place 5 rounds of the 4.0 load in a 4" round black dot. The 3.9 load was 2 in the dot, 1 on the edge and the other 2 rounds - 1 high by 2" and 1 right 1.5". The 3.9 load was shot first. What does this prove? Absolutely nothing in the long run other than I found another type of powder, without the goofy prices of others (yet), that is fairly easy to find (locally) and patterns well for me. Now if someone could just point me to a shotgun powder that can be easily found, I am open for suggestions. My Titewad supply is down to the last 4 pounds or so (the box thing here) and need others thoughts. Respectfully - J.J.

Hey All Thank you for the replies. Mr. Chapo - She caught it good. Almost like she was stomping crickets in the garage during the summertime. No possible way to fix. Mr. GJ - Thank you for answer. I did look at the website you referenced, previously, and noticed the set screws on the triggers you referenced were on the back without the threaded hole in the front. Plain and simple, I wasn't sure so thought it best to ask. Will order a trigger from Harrison shortly after I push the 'Submit Reply' tab. Thank you again with your responses. J.J.

Howdy all - So here goes the background. Today completely disassembled my Remington R1 for its semi-annual (??) cleaning. During the process of reassembly, my other half came out to talk to me. During the 'talk' the frame was turned down before the magazine release button was replaced. As the trigger dropped down to the ground bounced around a few times it was then stepped on the other half and really really bent. As I slowly stooped down to pick up the trigger and held it up for both of us to look at I said to her, "No worries. When we are done here will order another trigger." As I started to look for a traditional trigger, quickly determined this was not as easy of a project as I thought. All the websites Mr. Google came up with have many many triggers to choose from. However, most of those triggers displayed seemed to fit in a 'Modern' gun and were not suited for the 'Traditional' gun. I did manage to find a couple of short and long solid triggers. However those that I could find had a hole drilled for a set screw trigger adjustment. The latest edition of the WB Shooters Handbook has some information on what types of triggers that can be used. The following is the quote that I am centering on while attempting to order a new trigger: Short or long solid triggers are permitted. No flat or lightweight match triggers are allowed. I believe I understand what the 'flat or lightweight match triggers" designation references. What I don't understand is if I order a 'Short or long solid trigger' does the little hole at the bottom of the trigger somehow designate that trigger to now be an illegal trigger for a Traditional WB gun? If the set screw is removed and the little hole filled with (whatever) does it become a 'legal' traditional trigger? I suspect if i did this, no one would notice the difference. Just trying to this correctly. Or - if someone in this WB reading community can point me to a 'Traditional' trigger to order, that would save hassles in the long run. Thanks for reading and any help that others can provide. Respectfully - J.J.

What Marshal Stone said - This surprises you because?? I am thrilled that the young lady on the cover of the January 2025 Chronicle is a friend of mine. Met her (and her father) a number of years ago at a Minnesota State Cowboy Match. She sat down at the table I was sitting at (by myself) and proceeded to talk to me she had know me forever. I was taken aback at her gesture. Have even had the chance to shoot a WB Match with her at the same range at a later date. She is one of the good persons to know. Yah - perhaps there should have been more written about the WB Match at Land Run. Just leaves a greater opportunity for others to step up and shine. J.J.

Hi Mr. Go West - This should answer your question: J.J.

Howdy Again All - Mr Garrison Joe - A great big WoW and Thank you for you response to my question. Your response was amazingly well written and should be a good reference to others. I will be quick to respond back that my knowledge with gunsmithing is dangerous at best and a Dremel has the potential of being a very expensive tool to use while working on guns. Last late winter while shooting the 2024 Wild Bunch Championship Match at Cowtown, the extractor in my Remington failed in the middle of the 42 shot handgun stage. I used my backup Remington for the remainder of the match. The broken extractor was replaced at EoT by a friend of ours from CA. It functioned just fine when used at the EoT WB Match. When I got back to Northern NV, the old extractor in my backup Remington was also replaced. While taking it to the range to test I noticed that the shells were being tossed in about a 25' radius. I then started to do some research on extractor tuning. The article I settled on was this one: http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2016/08/a-new-extractor.html Earlier this morning I read thorough all of the articles you posted links to and will study them again a number of times. Some great information in those articles for struggling gunwreckers like me. Interestingly enough the author of the article I mentioned, uses the same extractor tuning diagram that Bill Wilson (and the others you referenced) has in his article. It is now easy to see where Tony got his information from. After reading the Tony article, I purchased some micro files and then had to purchase another set of flat micro files along with a head thing that has about three sets of magnifying glasses on it. Off to the races (carefully) I went to filing the extractors on all three on my 1911's according to the diagram. They all toss the brass like they should with zero problems. Guess I am just a slow learner, however am able to learn with proper instruction. I will have to do some research/reading about this 'extractor twisting - Clocking' thing you mentioned. It looks like some intriguing research and learning. You also mention to "look for severe gouge in the extractor cut of the fired cases. A sharp or poorly shaped extractor hook will put a "horizontal gouge" in the angle part of the extractor cut." Yup - there is a definite extractor mark/nick on top of the bottom of the case and on the the side of the cases directly below the case dents. I attempted to get a picture of the extractor attach point, however even my iPhone 16 Pro camera could take a good enough picture to post. Later this week, we/he will have to so some 'careful filing' on the extractor on his gun. Thank you again for your help. You are a great reference person. So - Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. J.J.

Hi All - Friend of mine just had his 1911 Colt Mark IV worked on. This gun was made in the early 70's and never fired but for a few times. Recently the Main Spring, Recoil Spring and Extractor were replaced. Replacement springs and extractor were Wilson Combat replacements. The extractor was a Wilson Combat 'Bulletproof' stainless extractor. Extractor was tuned using the Weigand 1911 Extractor Adjusting Tool and tested to the 25 - 27 ounce tension recommended on their web site videos with the Lyman Electronic Digital Trigger Pull Gauge. Two magazines of bullets were fired through the gun earlier this afternoon. Bullets used were loaded (mine) with Winchester LPP Primers, 4.5 grains of Bullseye and Bear Creak 200 RNHB Molly Coated Bullets. I have used this load for years on my own guns and have not seen anything like this. The brass was picked up, placed in my pocket and tossed on the counter when I got home. When I looked down at the brass I noticed that most of the shells were 'dented' on the rim and there was a horizontal scratching on the brass. My first thought was that this brass was just stepped on. Then quickly noticed a potential larger problem. Was kinda hoping that someone with a much greater knowledge in what might have caused this 'problem' and an idea how to fix might chime in and let us know. Whatever is going on with is gun needs to be addressed before a couple of thousand rounds are cranked out. Thanks all for looking and perhaps commenting. J.J.

I wish I could have some of my old computer skills back. I can not figure out how to easily copy (other than this) pictures from a web site. Oh well, another day for this issue. I liked the big white dot on the front of the 45 ACP slide that Boggus posted (thank you for taking the time and effort to post). The picture posted above is a picture of something I might be interested in. This picture is from the Kensight web page. If these are purchased I suspect the front and rear sights on the new gun will have to be milled to correctly fit these sights. Anyone have any experience with this type of sights and if so how did/do you like them??? J.J.

Hi All . . . . A couple of days ago a sporting goods store here had brand spankin' new 1911 45 ACP Rock Island Armory GI Standard Model guns listed for a price $299. Of course I had to purchase one of them. I shot WB Senior Traditional as much as is available to me. I have shot Traditional since the beginning. I thought this Rock Island gun would be a gun to place some different sights on the front and back and dude the rest of it up to putz around shooting Senior Modern at some of our local matches. I am fully aware that I can use my traditional Remingtons to shoot in the Modern Category. I thought this gun would be the perfect gun to place a set of sights with all those great big white (or other colors) dots,so that I could finally see the white doted front sight against black painted targets. I am also aware that the newly purchased sights, with the big white dots, may have to be fitted to the Rock Islands slide which will probably include some dove tailing (or??) to fit the sights I finally settle on. So here's my very open question (with a few comments before hand): As stated above, the only category I have ever shot in while shooting WB is the Traditional Categories with standard guns. The sights on traditional sights are pretty standard without much variation. I have absolutely no idea what sights any of you-all use (or prefer) that shoot Modern Categories. If anybody could list out your ideas, I would be more than excited to look and consider all suggestions. I am in no hurry to make this gun into something that will be fun to shoot. I just want to do something different for a change. Thanks for the help that any may offer. J.J.

How Close Should They Be? Hummm . . . What an interesting question. I believe the answer to be this: It depends on whom you are asking? Ask the persons who shot in the El Rey / La Reina categories at cowboy matches when they are lumped into the Modern or Traditional WB Categories at the State or higher level because there weren't five or more persons in their categories and the match director would not open up those Senior categories for whatever reason. Yup - been places where this has happened. Ask the persons who have shot stages where the scenarios are so complicated that 90% of the posse they are on received a Procedural. Ask those persons who have to struggle seeing rifle/pistol targets that are set at the back of distant berms where the front sight of the pistol is larger than the targets. And of all the places I have been shooting WB, very few clean the stages, no matter how the range is set. So am I advocating targets being set up close and personal. Not by any means. I know how I set WB targets when we had our range. Targets were 16"x"16' for squares and circles were 16" in diameter for our club. The pistol targets were set anywhere between 18' to 22'. Rifle targets at around 35', rifle/pistol targets at 25' and shotgun targets around 27'. I always used a tape measure. The Texas Stars, dueling trees, hostage/hostage taker targets were right at the 15' mark. These are just what I did and your mileage vary at your own clubs. I will make another observation . At State level Cowboy Match in the state where I live, the then President of the club made some remarks that went something like this: As he stood at the front of the audience he surveyed the trophies laid out to the front and sides of him. As he addressed the audience, he stated that statically about 10% of the audience would receive the those trophies. The other 90% of the audience were there to watch and see who were awarded those trophies. He went on to further say, those 10% of the audience receiving those trophies, would probably be in the top 10% no matter where they went. He state that he was writing stages, he struggled with who should he be writing a match for? Those top 10% who will continue to be in the top 10% no matter how challenging a match is or the 90% who will come back to support the club knowing that most will never have a chance at wining an award or ever seeing they names in the top 10% of whatever match they are attending. I believe that same challenge should be applied to any Cowboy or WB Match no matter what the level of the match is. Your audience will dictate what to write. No matter which group stages are being written for, attempt to make a challenge for everyone without writing stages that are only for the top 10%. In other words, everyone's organization is different. Do what works for you at your organization. When you travel and you don't care for the hosting clubs written stages let your pocket book do the talking. Thanks for reading - J.J. PS - Remember, all of those writing stages for any match, this is an entertainment business. Too hard, too close, too far away, too easy - well I'm sure you get the jest.

Garrison Joe - You were correct about my poor choice of words. You did not allude to anything. You provided, what I believe to be, was a distinct and correct answer. I can only apologize to you for my poor choice or words. J.J. PS - I really enjoy your answers to everything you provide on the SASS WB and Cowboy wires. Only wish I could get the opportunity to know you on a personal level. I believe you are one of the many great resources on these wires.

After reading a little more into this subject, I now know that the answer is. Garrison Joe above alludes to the answer. Simple answer to the synopsis above is this: The SASS Range Officers, WBAS Basic Safety Course, Pocket RO Card States under the MDQ Section: Discharge impacting 5 feet from the shooter, while on the firing line or any discharge away from the firing line. Any discharge in the loading or loading or unloading areas. The last sentence in the statement clearly states what the call should have been. A MDQ. Thinking I need to attend a few more WB RO Instruction classes. J.J.

Before this gets too far down the list, something happened at a State WB Match to that I have never heard of or have seen before. I am one of the two posse marshals at this match. It is WARM here. There are 24 people shooting this match. The posses are lumped together shooting in one wave over the 5 stages with a A and B team in the berm. There are only two WB Trained officials at this match. One of us has a Black Pin and is the club, to which we belong, TG. For my own self, I have 7 of those little 45 pins that I have been able to accumulate over a number of years. Both of us have shot at many, many matches at multiple locations in multiple states. The question as I understand (and saw) the circumstances is as follows. I was the posse marshal of the person shooting this string to which this happened. I was sitting at my cart, talking to the RO Instructor about something. At the right time, I happened to look up at the unloading table and saw an individual standing there. He brought his pistol up, pointed it at the berm, squeezed the trigger and shot a round from his 1911 into the berm. Needles to say, this caused quite a ruckus. As we high-tailed over to the unloading table to find out what was going on, this is what we were told. The shooter have a jam in his 1911 that he could NOT clear on the line and declared a ‘dead’ gun. The gun was brought to the unloading table and after attempting to clear the gun he was able to get the round into the 1911 chamber. The shooter stated he could not eject the round by pulling back the slide. Apparently his solution to clear the round was to pull back the hammer, pull the trigger and fire the 1911 to get the round out of the chamber. The round did eject properly from the 1911 after the trigger was pulled and the round fired into the berm. Apparently no one knows who told him to clear the 1911 in this manner. If anybody did know, they certainly weren’t talking. Mind you there were 24 shooters in this berm. There were a number of shooters standing around the unloading table, there were shooters on the line, were counters and there were other shooters standing around just watching the match. In other words there were shooters everywhere in this bay all standing to the left, right and behind where the shooter was when he pulled the trigger and fired into the berm. Now anybody reading this short synopsis knows as much as I do. Myself and the WB Instructor did not know what a call should be or if there was to be a call concerning this incident. I know what the call was by the match director. This person has not had any WB formal training. Let me be the first to say this, she is doing as good of a job being a match director as anyone could. If this incident would have happened to you at a match where you looked at as being on of the two ‘match officials’, what would you have done or called?? J.J.

Mr. Chapo I have a different way at looking at this footwear subject. A number of years ago, at a cowboy match, I came running around a corner and slipped on some smooth wet concrete while wearing cowboy boots. As I hit the ground, I broke my right hand in three places. I spent a few months in uncomfortable casts. Those smooth bottom cowboy boots quickly went the way of the doo doo bird. I can not remember what boot I went to but it had to be something with a gripping sole. Many years later I now wear 8" 'boots' that say Reebok on the back. They are desert brown color, lace up and have zippers on the side. The zippers are used frequently when the arthritis/gout flare up . The zippers have to be used so that I can fit into them. I have been questioned about these boots by many many folks. My response is generally something like this: 7 knee surgeries, an amputated toe on one foot, metal plates in the other foot that disallow the flexing of my big toe to get into boots, arthritis, gout, replaced hips, replaced shoulder and a back that has had 4 vertebrae fused says that I am going to wear something that is comfortable for me. I don't try to flaunt my shoe wear, however I am getting too old to be operated on any more. And no I don't have a 'Doctors Slip" for them because there is no such requirement. As I travel to SASS Matches, I notice what others are wearing for shoes/boots. Many many shooters, have the same thoughts as I do. My feet hurt after many years of abuse. I I am going to be comfortable for the duration of any particular match that I attend and my shoes are a great deal of importance to me to being comfortable. Would I consider wearing a pair of combat boots? I doubt it. I have limitations concerning what I wear for WB/Cowboy costuming. It is important for me to look 'kinda like' something that is period correct. However, while being questioned about my foot wear, I have never been questioned about the Recruiting Badge on my campaign hat, the chevrons on my collar, the Band and Honor Guard badges on my shoulder or the service stripes on my sleeve from the service I was in. I guess are are some limitations for the clothing police. Good luck with your decision. Just don't let that decision interfere with with your passion for WB shooting. J.J.

Hi All Have been reading all the WB comments on both the WB Wire and the Cowboy Wire concerning the upcoming rules changes with interest. Many of the comments, on both forums, are well thought out while others remind me of the ‘Chicken Little Syndrome’. My own thoughts think that allowing 38 rifles will change participation level insignificantly. One of my concerns, at the moment is, with the 38 rifle, is which rifle do I use while participating in my chosen category? Plain and simple, I can shoot my slicked out 38 rifle much faster than the slicked out $2K Long Hunter 45Colt rifle I purchased just a few months ago. If my competitors are going to use the faster of the two rifles and those stages are shot, let’s say 2 to 3 seconds faster than me, those seconds add up over the 10 stages of a match. I like to compete and I relish the adrenalin rush of trying my best to be at the top of the heap. Therein lies my challenge. What will I do at the ‘Big Match’ next February? Many matches are won (and lost) over just a few seconds. One of my other concerns are matches themselves. In our travels we have been to WB Matches all over the Western US and Minnesota. Some places, after reading stages, I have to sit down, scratch my head a bit, take out my pencil and sketch out how to shoot this scenario. It’s supposed to fun, not complicated. Have also been places where the scenarios are mind boggling and the pistol targets (along with the rifle/pistol targets) are completely lost behind my front sight on my 1911. Have been to a place, shot a SASS Sanctioned State WB Match and the scores were never posted. Been to a place where the props were so rickety, rules were not followed and competitors who were much more ‘local’ than I left the match in disgust with the vow to vote with their pocket book and never return. Anyone who travels and shoots WB has been to these types of places and probably won’t return. These types of problems, in my humble opinion, are what turns shooters away and not be the soon allowance of 38 rifles, 1887 shotguns or double barrel shotguns. Have also read comments where some shooters would like to see ‘Condition 1’ utilized at WB Matches. For some shooters, not a problem with that. However, have stood behind others and been scared watching them draw, shoot and load their 1911’s. While I might like to do this myself the thoughts of everyone being allowed to do this is somewhat concerning to me. I guess we have to be careful for what we ask for. Over the past day, have noted comments where folks with titles within the SASS WB Organization, after 12/31/23, will no longer have their ‘Titles’ and are upset. I understand that. I also understand that those folks will, in all likelihood, will be voted right back in with new and different titles. Remember, there are many other shooters, standing in the wings for years, that would like to have those same opportunities and will never be given the chance. So, will SASS WB cease to exist because of these new rules? I doubt it. Whether I like these new rules or not, they were a business decision of management to increase participation levels and increase dollars in. In one of my past reincarnations, I audited business for a number of years. Business do not operate at losses for long and continue to exist. My own beliefs are that both organizations, in the next ten years or so, will die a slow death through age attrition. Just to sight my own past, when I came to the area where I shoot now, I was 52 and one of the young guys. Eighteen years later I am now 70 and still one of the younger guys. What does this say to you-all? Many will have different thoughts than I do. Time will tell. Finally, Misty in her email to everyone yesterday, said that we (SASS) are in the ‘entertainment business’. Much can be (and should be) read into that comment. Most, in the generations behind ours, could care less about what we do and it shows. My thoughts, and my thoughts alone, are that if clubs don’t make a large attempt to cater to an aging population that remembers why we do what we do there won’t be any population left. Respectfully submitted, J.J PS - A couple of years ago I was looking to why the 1911 was developed and what it was developed for. This picture has always reminded me of what the distances of the 1911 were developed for.

HI Robgun - I also had problems with a Model 12 like you are describing. After many frustrating hours I finally came across this: https://jackfirstinc.com/winchester-12-12-ga-carrier-assembly-no-ledge-w-cartridge-guide-112-9212-10?limit=100 Ordered a couple of them. One used ans one old/new stock. The old/new stock would not work in the gun. When cycling the old/new stock locked up the gun tighter than a drum. Apparently it had to be tuned. Placed in the used one ordered and have not had a problem since. The other solution for you is to hold you gun angled to your left, if you can remember to do that when shooting as fast as you can. This seems to work also, but not as reliable as the carrier with a flag. Kinda spendy but I believe your problems will be solved. good luck!! J.J.

Over the past few months I have been to a quite a few Wild Bunch Matches that have been spread all over the Western US. I have to say, Tully's 2022 CA State WB Match has been one of the most fun to shoot. Especially enjoyed the two stages that were "Shoot until all the targets are down". Both of those stages are referenced above. It was impressive to watch Silvertip, Frederick Jackson Turner, Gopher Broke (who shot at least one of the stages with pistol only) and Tully blaze away with their handguns. My comment to all four of these guys is, "Someday when I grow up and learn to shoot, I want to be able to shoot just like you guys." I am sure that there were others on the other posse that shot these two stages equally well. I just didn't get the chance be on the other posse to observe them. Tully and Slo Mo Steph worked hard and produced a Wild Bunch Match that was enjoyable for everyone. Way to go you two and all the others that helped produce the 2022 CA State Wild Bunch Match. Already looking to next years 2023 CA State Wild Bunch Match wherever it is. J. J.

Doc - One item I need to make a touch bit clearer for you. WB shooters, during a cowboy match, shoot at the cowboy range targets. There are no targets set specifically for WB Shooters. Like many other organizations, we have a hard enough time getting shooters to help set and pick up steel. Asking these individuals to set out steel for the occasional WB shooter(s) would create a riot by a bunch of old farts! Wouldn't that be a sight to see!! Interestingly enough all three local organizations are comprised of about 95% of the same shooters. Two organizations allow WB shooters alongside the cowboy shooters and the other will not. Go figure. J.J.

Doc - Around our neck of the woods (Northern Nevada/Fernley) we have three cowboy clubs. Two of the three organizations allow WB'ers to shoot WB at cowboy matches. As Frederick Jackson mentioned, we also use 5 round magazines that are shot in the same manner as cowboy shooters against the pistol and rifle targets. Rifle is then shot in the same manner as cowboy shooters. Shotguns are stoked in the same manner as WB. Movement with the stoked shotgun follows the same rules as WB. Our only different requirement for those shooting WB during the cowboy matches is that the RO for the WB shooter must be a WB RO. Also the WB RO must be an experienced WB shooter and not someone who took the WB RO Certification Course years ago and has not shot WB on a regular basis. The shooter shooting WB guns must follow WB rules just as they would in a regular WB Match. All guns of the WB shooter are cleared on the line. Before leaving the line the RO announces to the posse that all guns have been cleared before the shooter leaves the firing line. These rules have worked out for us over the past few years. The only complaint from the posse (if any) is generally from the brass pickers. They are annoyed (and rightfully so) that there is a bunch of extra brass to pick up after the WB shooter is through :-). Hope this answers some of your questions above and how we have worked this WB shooting stuff out during our regular cowboy matches. J.J.

I read this thread with interest. I had never thought of changing out the mainspring housing with anything different than what can on my Remington R1. It came with flat straight grooved housing. After reading some of the thoughts of others I ordered a serrated straight housing to try that out. With the Cool Hand G10 grips that I now use and the new serrated housing, this combination seems to hold my average hand size quite well once I hand is wrapped around the handle of the 1911. I tried a few rounds yesterday and I liked the feeling of the new combination. Thanks for all of your comments, they are quite helpful.

Howdy All - Last year at the conclusion of the 2020 California State Wild Bunch Match I received an email from Mr. Ed (who is the Horse of Course). At that time I was the editor or the Battle Born Rangers Monthly Newsletter. This year Mr. Ed again sent me an email concerning the 2021 California State Wild Bunch Match and asked me to post it for everyone to read. Apparently he, Wilbur and Carol were in attendance again this year. Over the past couple of years Mr. Ed has submitted a few articles to be posted in the Battle Born Rangers Newsletter. I suspect next month this article will be posted in the Battle Born Rangers newsletters also. The following is what he sent. Hello - It’s Mr. Ed (the Horse of Course) again. The last few months from the 2020 California State Wild Bunch Match have flown by in record time. Wilbur is always looking for places to travel and go Wild Bunch Shooting so he again asked me what I thought of us again traveling to Diamond Dicks Cowboy Town (DDCT) at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center in Sloughhouse California to attend the 2021 California State Wild Bunch Match. I thought about this statement for a very brief moment and then stomped my right hoof and neighed with joy about attending one of our favorite matches in our travels. As Wilbur and Carol lead me out to the trailer, read on and you will find out why. The 2021 California State Wild Bunch is again over and what a time it was. As I mentioned a number of months ago Wilbur, Carol and I would attempt to attend and we were able to. Before we left this year Wilbur, at Carol’s insistence, did purchase that fancy new horse trailer and new truck. Wilbur no longer has to store my hay on the top of the trailer like he did on the old trailer. He is happy about that. He says that he is getting too old to toss bales of hay on the top of the trailer anymore. When we arrived at DDCT a couple of days before the Wild Bunch Match it was a little warm. Thank goodness the new trailer is air conditioned for the three of us. This year we parked down by the pond at the range. The breeze was nice and cool as it came off the water. Fortunately the rest of the days for the match the temperatures cooled down and the evenings were comfortable. During the three days of the math, Wilbur and I went for some memorable evening rides enjoying the cool breezes, observing the numerous wildlife at the range and later in the dark of the evening watching the millions of stars in Gods magnificent sky. On the starting Thursday morning of the match, Wilbur strolled down to the range to register for the match. Tully Mars (the 2021 Match Director) was just as surprised to see Wilbur this year as he was last year. Wilbur did make a short commitment to Tully to try to hit a few more targets than he did last year. Tully, after his jovial laughter had finished, had to sit down for a few moments to catch his breath. As Day 1 of the match commenced, Wilbur walked down the range to watch the Thursday side matches. After a short stroll he found a bay where they were shooting the Speed Pistol and Shotgun events. Just like last year, as Wilbur watched the contestants shoot, he was again amazed how scary fast many of the men and women 1911 shooters were. Wilbur also mentioned how fast these people could fire their shotguns. At night I think Wilbur has dreams at night about being able to shoot his 1911 and his shotgun like all of the contestants. It must have been awesome to watch the festivities. As Wilbur continued down the bays, he found a Side Match that he had never seen before. It was called a ‘Turkey Shoot Side Match’. As he watched the event he saw that the Wild Bunch folks were shooting at little red knock down targets that were hidden behind larger targets. There were ten of these little turkey targets hidden behind five or six larger targets. Each shooter had to move through a series of three windows to be able see all of the targets. The ‘Turkeys’ were far enough back that each of the contestants were shooting them with their match rifles. Some of the contestants even attempted to shoot the turkeys with their 1911’s. Wilbur did mention to me that after watching the contestants shoot with their 1911’s that he had a much greater respect for the Hollywood people who are able to shoot at their handguns at targets from 50 to 75 yards or further out and never miss!! He believes they must have some really good trainers. The last Side Match Wilbur watched was an event where contestants attempted to shoot playing card in half with their 1911’s. The cards were mounted on 4x4’s about five or six feet from the firing line. Wilbur wasn’t really sure about the distance because he would not be able to perform that trick anyway. Contestants were tasked to load 5 magazines with a single round each. They then attempted to shoot the card in half when the timer went off. As he watched the event it was funny to watch some shoot the 4x4’s with their 1911’s. However, some contestants were able to hit multiple cards. In the end one of the contestants won the event by shooting all five playing cards in half. Wilbur was quite excited as he explained this to me. Unfortunately, Carol could have cared less when he told her. Day 2 of the match commenced early in the morning with the usual gathering of the group for safety instructions and announcements. Wilbur especially listened to the safety instructions. He was somewhat concerned about what to do if he accidently ‘winged’ himself. The group then disbursed to their posse and bay assignments. A short time later rounds were being fired down range. I understand that many of the shooters, at the end of the day, expressed to Tully how much fun they had shsooting his stages and target placements. The only disparaging negative comments Wilbur expressed was how small the tutanka targets (buffalo) were on one of the stages. Wilbur believes that on that stage were each time he fired his 1911 or rifle at the tutanka’s they either jumped, kneeled down or moved to the right or left each time he fired his guns. I think he must have had a bunch of misses on that stage. Throughout the shooting bays many different stage scenarios were set. Only a few of the targets were somewhat closer and some were out far enough that Wilbur stated next year he would have to replace his WWII stubby front sights on his old 1911 with something larger so that he could actually see them on the end of his gun. Carol mentioned to him something about perhaps purchasing a new 1911. As Wilbur turned around and looked to me, after Carol’s comment, his eyes started to beam. The bays targets were arranged with squares, circles, dueling trees, smaller club and diamond shapes, the small ‘turkey’ knockdowns, an 8’ plate rack, tombstone knockdown plate rack, paddle shaped shotgun knockdowns, tutanka - cowboy - coffin targets and (or course) a Texas Star target. Wilbur did not do very well on the Texas Star. He told me when contestants shoot one of the paddles off that are on the end of the 5 steel arms, it falls off and the Texas Star starts to spin around on its ball bearing axis. I suspect he missed one or two of the paddles as the Texas Star started to spin around faster and faster making it harder to hit the rest of the paddles. Wilbur must have done poorly on the Texas Star because his head was spinning round and round as he was explaining this to me. I got a little dizzy watching him. He also mentioned he was extremely glad Tully did not design that particular stage to shoot the Texas Star with 1911’s. Strangely enough, Wilbur says some Wild Bunch shooters enjoy shooting the Texas Star with their 1911’s. He has a hard time understanding that!! When Day 3 came the shooting of the final five stages of the ten stage match commenced early in the morning. Everyone I noticed was excited to begin their day of shooting. About an hour after the match was over, everyone gathered around a place called ‘Rosie’s Cafe’ at DDCT for the Award Ceremony, raffle drawings while told each other stories of their accomplishments and perhaps disappointments. The scores were quickly calculated by a person from Nevada. As Wilbur explained to me, all the shooters’ scores were entered into iPads by a different shooter right after that shooter was finished with their stage. At the end of Day 2, the iPads were recharged and ready for Day 3’s festivities. The program for scoring was called ‘CAS Scoring System’. I hope some of you understand what that means because my ears twitched as I struggled through Wilbur’s explanation of the scoring worked on the iPads. He assured me that if I took a few minutes to learn the program that next year, if I wished, I could enter the scores into the iPad for his posse. He says is really quite simple to learn and use. When the match was over it only took less than 2 minutes for the Nevada person to sync all three of the posse’s iPads to a Master iPad. The scores were then magically ready for all to see after the Award Ceremony. Just like last year the Award Ceremony and raffle drawing commenced without a hiccup. The ceremonies were finished in less than an hour. Wilbur mentioned that Tully had enough raffle prizes for everyone that stayed for the Award Ceremony. Wilbur was glad he stayed for the ceremony. He was happy that he was able to pick out a nice prize when his number was called. Many shooters recceived nice looking trophies for their accomplishments. The top three winners of each category received a trophy that looked like a 1911 mounted on top of a 45acp bullet. The first place trophies were larger than the second place trophies and the second place trophies were larger than the third place trophies. The shooters standing was etched on the 45acp bullet. This year Tully also ordered some much smaller trophies like those mentioned in this paragraph for all of the side match winners. There were even different types of trophies for the top man and woman Turkey and Card Cutting winners. As like last year Wilbur hung out at the back of the crowd during the Award Ceremony with his eyes staring at the ground. Someday he hopes to be able to have a shooting trophy to mount on the stable walls. Not everyone attending shooting matches are able to win a trophy. Some come for the enjoyment of being with others and the pleasure of shooting their guns. Just as quickly as the match started it was over. After the Award Ceremony was completed most of the contestants hitched their covered wagons to their mechanical horses and headed off to the surrounding hills to make their way home. Some stayed to leave the following morning while enjoying the evenings peace and solitude. Wilbur, Carol (and ‘Yes’ me) are again already planning on attending the 2022 California State Wild Bunch Match. Wilbur, Carol and I hope all of you fellow Wild Bunchers from near and far will also attend. Perhaps if you take a few walks around the facility and look around you will spot us. And I am Mr. Ed

Hi All - I recently purchased a newer Model 12 as a backup for my older match Model 12. This weekend I dissembled, sonic cleaned, scrubbed and scrubbed all of the old crud out of all the parts and then oiled all of those parts. The gun is now scattered around on the bench awaiting reassembly. While I shoot Model 12's for WB, I still struggle with lubrication points within the gun. My cowboy 97's are easy to spot with the wear points because of their use. These 12's are somewhat of an enigma to me. They do not enough use to find the wear points for lubrication. When I look in the receiver (through the bottom to the top) there are wear points that are easy to spot where bolt rubs on the top of the receiver and as it slides out of the cavity where the leading edge of the bolt rests when in firing position. Those are the only two points easy to spot. The rails that the bolt slide on on this new gun are not even worn yet. It was manufactured in 1955 but it was not seen much use. My question to all of you who know much more than I do it this: What are the other lubrication points within the 12 and what are they lubed with (ie oil or grease)? Thanking everyone in advance for taking time and read and perhaps writing an answer for us less learned Wild Bunchers. Respectfully - J.J.