JJ

Hi All - I can speak from experience here. Tully Mars and the Gold Country Wild Bunch group put on one heck of a match. I have attended their matches over a number of years and have not been disappointed. Their facilities at Diamond Dicks Cowboy Town are great. Plenty of camping space and water to boot! If any of you are looking for an adventure towards the middle of May, hitch up the wagon and journey to the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. You will not be disappointed. After Tully's email, I received an email from Mr. Ed (The Horse of Course). It looks like he and Wilbur will also be attending the Match. Wilbur even made some comment to Mr. Ed about bringing Carol along this year. There might be a short problem with Carol's attendance however. Apparently Wilbur is going to have to purchase a larger horse trailer and a new bigger truck. Carol likes to travel heavy. He said something about looking for one of those trucks that have the four tires on the back. Mr. Ed was not to sure what that meant, but he seemed excited. So come out to the event and shoot with the crowd. J.J.

Just last weekend the 2020 Rescheduled California State Wild Bunch Championship Match was concluded. The weather was cool in the mornings and evenings and I believe everyone in attendance had a good time. After the California State Wild Bunch Match, the Battle Born Rangers from Northern Nevada published their monthly newsletter for November. In it was a short article written by the one and only Mr. Ed (the Horse of Course) who occasionally writes articles for this newsletter. The enclosed article was his observations of the California State Wild Bunch Match. Hello - Mr. Ed here again. Last week Wilbur again asked me if I would like to take a ride with him again for another weekend match. I told him “Sure, why not, I don’t have much going on again this weekend anyway.” Thursday afternoon Wilbur again started loading up my trailer and started placing the hay bales on the top. I noticed that he placed a couple of extra bales on the trailer and I asked him “Wilbur, just where are we going this weekend?” He told me over the mountains and into a foreign country called “The Republic of Kalifornia” and that the extra bales of hay were a ‘just in case’ precaution for me. Friday morning he hitched up the tailer to the truck and off we went. Four and a half hours later we arrived at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. We drove to the end of the ranges and found a place called ‘Diamond Dicks Cowboy Town’ where we spend the weekend with cool mornings, cool evenings and warm sunny afternoons camping out with other shooters. The first afternoon (Friday) was spent with Wilbur doing something called ‘Speed Matches’. I had not seen these before. There were matches for something called Speed Rifle, Speed Pistol and Speed Shotgun. There was even a separate stage called ‘Machos Federales’. That was especially fun to watch being shot. There were 52 targets that had to be knocked down with the shooter’s handgun called a 1911 (more about this later) along with two cowboy poppers that were shot with a shotgun. The shooters could as many handgun bullets needed to hit the knockdowns. Some did much better than others. I noticed when Wilbur shot this stage, he probably needs some more practice before attempting that again. Some of the shooter’s behind him were laughing uncontrollably and called for many others to step in help pick up brass. The match we attended was the California State Wild Bunch Championship Shooting Match. I have never been to one of these Wild Bunch Matches before. It was quite the sight. The shooters don’t use the regular cowboy 6-guns that I am used to seeing. They use a 1911 45acp, a pump shotgun (either Winchester Model 97 or a Winchester Model 12) and a rifle that looks like the rifle the regular cowboys in regular cowboy matches use. Wilbur did mention that the rifle used had to be at least a .45 caliber rifle. This didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me so I shuffled my hoof on the ground in acknowledgement anyway. It seemed to make him happy. I found out that the Wild Bunch Shooters shoot 10 stages at their big matches in lieu of the 12 stages required by cowboy matches. I guess it was the longer shooter times that brought about the 10 stages. Most of the stages required anywhere from 21 to 35 1911 45acp rounds, 7 rounds in the rifle and the shotgun could be loaded with 6 rounds. The shotgun was fun to watch these people shoot. There were a couple of shooters (both girls and guys) that were really fast shooters with their 1911’s. The shooters that could shoot their shotguns and 1911’s really fast were especially fun to watch. I wish I could have walked over the other group so see if they did just as well as Wilbur’s group. I should also mention that many of these shooters dressed up like World War I soldiers. I still don’t understand what that was all about, but they all seemed to enjoy what they were doing and were proud of their costumes. As I was hitched up to the trees behind the stages, I enjoyed watching the match. I did not enjoy wearing my COVID mask. The mask fogged up my safety glasses to easily making it especially hard for me to clear them. Watching this match was so much different that the cowboy matches Wilbur has taken me to. The activity levels seemed to be much more intense because of the number of bullets being shot and the stages took much longer to shoot. I did notice that the targets were further back making it much harder for the shooters to hit. I also noticed that many of the shooters missed a bunch less than Wilbur did. I did make a note to myself to tell Wilbur that he needed to practice some a little more with his 1911 before the next match. As usual after the match there was a scurrying of activity. Wilbur told me a guy called ‘Tully Mars’ was in charge of the match. I did notice him scurrying around the stages during the two days. He seemed very busy but enjoyed what he was doing. He worked very hard during the two days I noticed him scurrying around. As Wilbur’s posse was finishing up their shooting, a person called ‘Blackhorse’ gathered everyone together to talk to them. I’m not too sure why he is called himself ‘Blackhorse’. His coat was not black and he did not look like a horse either. His name must have some significance to him that I do not fully understand. What he did say that he wished everyone a big ‘Thank you’ for being there, thanked the two ladies who helped out with the scoring and then thanked the posse for joining General’s Pershing Incursion into the territory for the two days. He gave everyone in the posse the standard days pay ($.50) for each day’s work in the form of a shiny $1 gold piece. Wilbur was very proud of his shiny $1 gold piece as he climbed into his saddle and we rode off for a bit. Just as suddenly as the match started it was over. Some of the shooters left quickly after the match. It must have been a long drive home for many. Others stayed around for something called an ‘Award Ceremony’. I have never been to one of these before. It was quite the deal. They gave away many prizes to the shooters just for being at the match. I recognized many of the shooters at this match, though I don’t know many of their names, Wilbur knew most everyone. Since I am usually hitched to a tree of something else, I don’t really get to close to become familiar with their names. As the Awards were handed out, I recognized the Nevada Shooter’s names. I hope I got this correct. Fanner Fifty: 2nd Place in the Men’s Senior Modern Category J.J. 1st Place Men’s Senior Traditional Category and 1st Place Men’s Speed Rifle Deadeye Dick: Honorable Mention Men’s Senior Modern Category Sheriff Winchester: Honorable Mention Men’s Traditional Category Wylie Fox Esquire: I believe I heard the Match Director mention that Wylie fell down some steps on the way to the match on the second day. I did notice he was hobbling around the second day of the match with an Ace bandage strapped around his leg with ice bottles underneath. Wilbur and I both hope he is feeling better and did not hurt himself to badly. Rubicon: He was supposed to be at the match but could not make it. Apparently, a week or so before the match he was out with a bunch of his old cop friends, in a large group setting, and picked up a terrible cold that has now turned into COVID and complicated with phenomena. Wilbur: Well, the Match Director (Tully Mars) thanked him for coming to the match and donating his match fee. When the Awards Ceremony was over Wilbur rode me back to the trailer, hitched up to the truck to the trailer and off we drove. Three and a half hours later we were back home. Shortly after arriving at the barn I was again back in my familiar stall, comfortable, warm, fed and watered. Until next time - Mr. Ed The Matches State Overall Champions and Speed Match Results. Rum Walker: California State Senior Modern Champion and Top Women’s Champion Molly Magoo: California State Ladies Modern Champion Rusty Rose: California State Ladies Traditional Champion Short Fuse Tucker: California State Senior Traditional Champion Cordite: California State Traditional Champion Tully Mars: California State Modern Champion and Top Men’s Champion Speed Shotgun: 1. Sunrise Bill 2.91 2. Short Fuse Tucker 3.06 3. Gopher Broke 3.13 Speed Shotgun Ladies: 1. Molly Magoo 4.56 2. Miss Chievious 5.61 3. Rusty Rose 12.42 Speed Rifle: 1. J. J. 2.90 2. Wolf Taylor 3.32 3. Steeley Eyes Mike 3.47 Speed Rifle Ladies: 1. Molly Magoo 9.17 2. Rusty Rose 9.17 Miss Chievious 10.20 Speed Pistol: 1. Gopher Broke 6.28 2. Sunrise Bill 6.59 3. Steeley Eyes Mike 7.85 Mucho Federales 1. Tully 60.24 2. Gopher Broke 70.50 3. Wolf Taylor 79.28 For the full scores to the 2020 California State Wild Bunch Match go to the following website: https://cagunslingers.com

Tully - As you are already aware 6 of your shooters arriving on Friday are from Nevada. 17% of your shooting force. I believe all of us are looking forward to a good time. J.J.

Tully No problem, my friend. I had too many duties last week with both the NV State WB Championship and the 23rd Annual Roop County Days to deal with much else. Thanks for your help last week. Your efforts to help our organization out are exactly why you were appointed to a WB Ambassador position. See you this weekend (perhaps) at the Gold Country WB Match at DDCT. J.J.

Hello the Wild Bunch Wire - Late last year I purchased my first Model 12 scattergun for WB Shooting. Last week, the Battle Born Rangers based in Fernley Nevada, hosted our 3rd Nevada State WB Match. During that match I had the privilege of being possed with many good shooters of which most were using Model 12's. The Model 12 I purchased many months ago just does not feed properly. I did address this problem on this forum and Goatneck, who is no longer with us, responded to me explaining the problem and how to fix the problem. Unfortunately I never took the time to have Goatneck fix my ailing Model 12. Now, being out in the middle of basically no-where, I again have absolutely no idea on who does Model 12 action work. Any help offered, either on this forum or in a PM to me would be greatly appreciated. By the way - for our match last week, Tully Mars (a frequent contributor to this forum) came to visit us and again took 'Top Honors' for the match. It was a pleasure to be on the same posse with him, watch him shoot his 45 and Model 12 and an honor for him to call me his friend. Our scores for the 2019 Nevada State Wild Bunch Match will be posted on the following link just as soon as our webmaster catches up from a week of heavy involvement with the Reno Air Races. http://www.northernnevadacas.com/html/scores.html Thanks - J.J.

Hey All - Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. The answers given are right along the lines I though they would be. It's always good to know that the WB Forum can give quality answers to odd questions concerning our written rules. Thanks again - J.J.

Hi All . . . I hope this will be a quick question - though I doubt it. Today while out tossing rounds down range, I was asked what the definition of 'modern shooting gloves' is? I had absolutely no idea and the rules deal with nothing specific other than saying they are not allowed. I think I understand that if I were to go to the local Sportsman Warehouse and pick up a set of gloves labeled 'shooting gloves' than these type of items are not allowed. I got that part. Now how about if a person comes to a match with a pair of cowboy roper gloves (some are very thin leather) with the trigger finger cut off? Is this allowed? How about if the trigger finger is not cut off? Or how about if a shooter stops at the Home Depot and brings home a set of those nice $14.95 gloves that fit tightly and are strapped down at the wrist with velcro? I also suspect these types if gloves might not be allowed. Not attempting to stir up any controversies, just attempting to get some clarification. thanks in advance - J.J.

Yup - I also think the current scoring system for Wild Bunch stinks. As Tully mentioned Total Time would be my preference also. I wonder how many other Wild Bunch Shooters would have the same preference? And - as a comment here: For a Hobby/Sport that is dying a slow death, why can not the powers-to-be attempt to accommodate just a few requests. Why not show both scoring systems for the large matches. What harm could there possibly be to accommodate all shooters to show the two different scoring systems? Sometimes goofy rules make no sense to most. As Marshal Stone seemed to indicate, what a shame there seems little chance for change when those in charge display appearances of having their heads buried in the sand and seem to not care what is happening around them. Of course others mileage may vary.

I want to thank you two guys for your posts. Both answers are a great help. Now if I would have accomplished my due diligence early this morning, with just a little searching on this forum, I could have had an answer without bothering you guys, Just one other question (loaded question) - who is a good person to send off this/these scattergun(s) for an action job? I/we have absolutely no idea on this. A PM is just fine. J.J.

Hello Everyone - A few weeks ago I purchased a Winchester Model 12. It is an older scattergun manufactured in the middle 1920's. It appears to have been hunted quite a bit but shot very little. The action is tight and the gun cycles very nice. The inside parts appear to have very little much wear and the barrels inside looked like a mirror. So here's the problem - When cycling shells into the chamber 'occasionally' a shell when lifted from the feed tube will catch itself on the outside right edge of the right side of the shell and hang up on front edge the port leading into the scattergun's chamber. I hope I have explained this correctly. This issue was videoed yesterday when test firing a couple of boxes of shells. In slow motion it was quite noticeable. I wish I knew how to post the video here. This problem happens with both factory and reloaded shells. Interestingly enough a friend of mine also purchased a Model 12 manufactured in the same era. Yesterday while test firing the scatterguns he encountered the exact same problem. For all of you guys that are way much more knowledgeable than us, any insight here would be a great help. We are both hoping for a fix that we can accomplish ourselves. If not who do we send them to for 'whatever'? Thanks in advance for any advice any may be able to offer us. J.J.

WoW !! I read this WB Forum and the SASS Cowboy Forum frequently. It never ceases to amaze me on how some work, so amazingly hard, to continue to harm this sport. If that is all a TO has to do is to somehow count the rounds in a shooters magazine(s) while on the shooters belt and not inform the shooter of the possible infraction before he starts the stage, that person has way too much time on their hands. Quite possibly that person should retake the WB RO Class no matter how new or long he had his WB RO badge . This type of action does absolutely nothing to further Wild Bunch Shooting. By the way - I have made poor calls also. Not particularly proud of them, but I have learned from them. After reading the Jackaroo's post it's no wonder why, in my mind, this is a dying sport. Between reading this sort of stuff on the WB Form and others like it on the SASS Cowboy Forms there is no doubt in my mind why I believe I will easily outlive these two shooting sports. Some may or may not agree with my comments. They are, however, my thoughts. J.J.

Thank you very much for your replies guys. When I saw those big holes in the brass, I had absolutely no idea why that would have been accomplished. Never gave the wax bullets idea a thought. Also my first thought was to toss them in the scrap brass box and that is where all of them now reside. I was just inquisitive as to other ideas as to why someone would go through the trouble of drilling a large hole in the bottom of the 45acp brass.

Hello All A few days ago I was given a large quantity of grungy 45 acp range brass. After running it through the wet media tumbler to make it nice and pretty I noticed a 'bunch' of the brass had the primer flash hole drilled out to something like 1/8". Does anybody have any idea what the purpose of this is ?? I have reloaded quite a bit of once fired 45acp and never encountered this before. thanks for anyone's answer.

Hi All . . . . I have a problem for some of you machinists/smiths. A few months ago I ordered a new IAC 97 scattergun. It was a great gun right out of the box. As a matter of fact I used it so much over the past couple of months that I now find the left extractor now needs replacement. I was told informed that the left extractor for the Winchester 97 was a duplicate replacement for the IAC 97. That was easy to order. A couple of weeks ago I replaced the left extractor on my Winchester. The extractor pin was easy to move down its channel for extractor replacement. I am now attempting to replace the left extractor on the IAC 97 but am having a dickens of a time removing the pin. No matter how hard I thump on the pin it will NOT budge. I even built a jig out of maple to hold the bolt so it would not move when I was thumping on the pin. That little pin could have been welded in by some happy go lucky Chinese fella at the plant for all I know. It doesn't look like it but it sure seems that way !! Now I am at a loss. Is my only option left to drill out the pin and hope I can find a replacement pin (where)?? If I drill out the pin would a 1/16" carbide bit do the trick so the pin could be driven out or does the bit need to be bigger? Any help anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated. Respectfully submitted, J.J. High Plains Drifters Roop County Cowboys Fernley NV

Tully - Joe First of all thank you for your responses. Yesterday, I figured out what the problem was. I took the scattergun (Norinco 97) over to my friend and mentor's place (Deadeye Dick) and we spent an entire afternoon working on a couple of Chinese 97's. By the way, Deadeye HATES working on Chinese 97's. From my old US Coast Guard days, I thought I knew every bad word that existed - I was wrong . . . . Well - getting back to my original problem. What we found out was that the Ejection Pin 'T' bottom had broken in half. The bottom middle half of the 'T' had been broken and was still in the 97's frame. After come careful looking with magnifying glasses, we found where the remaining piece had been pressed into the frame. The Chinese 97 and the Winchester 97 both take the same part. After we found where the pin came through the frame, the bottom half of the 'T' was punched through the frame leaving a hole for the new part to be pressed in. It fit quite tightly and will not fall out until it again brakes at some future date. After a little bit of filing, reassembling, working the action, disassembling, filing, reassembling, etc, etc (I suspect you-all get the picture) the Chinese 97 again preforms flawlessly. Thanks everyone for reading and the thoughts you may have had. Perhaps in 15 or 20 years I also may know just about everything there is to know on 97's, but I doubt it. J.J.

Tully Thanks for the inquiry/response. I actually found the part in question on the following web page: http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm (not sure if this like works automatically, probably have to cut/paste) It is listed as #76 on the Winchester 97 Parts Diagram on Marauders Web page. It is just a stinky little part that you would not normally notice. It is on the left inside side of frame and located right smack dab behind the Extractor Spring. I would have thought that little sucker was a piece of the frame. I don't think the entire part is over 2.5 MM long, about 1 MM deep. You would not even know unless you went in there and started to poke around a bit. I can not imagine how I noticed that it was just hanging there. I was cleaning the inside with q-tips, carb. cleaner, and gun cleaner when I noticed it turned sideways. Any help is greatly appreciated. J.J.

Hello Again I know one of you guys that reads this knows the answer to this question. Last night I was cleaning my 97. Now this is a process that does not happen very often. Actually, when it was dissembled I was surprised that it actually worked after looking at all the 'gunk' in the mechanisms. So here is the question with descriptions to the best of my abilities: I took off the ejector spring and screw and cleaned the area around their associated holes. Much to my surprise another little piece right behind the ejector spring fell off. Since I had never seen this little part before so I had to go look to see what it was called. On the Winchester Parts Schematic the little part that fell off is entitled as the 'Ejector Pin'. I cleaned the area and attempted to put the 'Ejector Pin' back in the frame, but as loose at it fits in its little hole there on that slide, I don't believe it is going to stay upon reassembly. I also suspect it is something that in needed for the 97 to function properly. I was really surprised that it had not fallen out earlier. The real question here is when placing the Ejector Pin back into the frame should it be glued/welded or what (a smidgen of JB Weld)? Press fitting it back into its place without something to hold it there is not going to do the trick. Any thoughts/help/suggestions here from you guys who know much more of this stuff and me would be greatly appreciated. thanks a bunch - J.J. Minden NV

Joe - Tully I want to thank both of you for your replies. I again took out the spring, reversed the spring, and cut a turn off of the coil. Now I can just BARELY get in 6 shells. I suspect later today a new spring will be on order. This is really funny to me. Before I stretched the spring, 6 Winchester Super X shells could fit in the magazine tub with about 3 millimeters of play and now, like I mentioned above 6 will just barely make it in. Joe - I really appreciate the time and consideration you spent on your answer. Your answer was concise and informative. I always enjoy reading your answers to questions on both of the Cowboy forums. You are always 'spot on' with no politics involved. Tully - yup, I and probably 5 others will be invading Cowboy Town tomorrow morning to shoot Sutter's WB Stages. The weather over Carson Pass and at the range looks like it will be fairly nice for for this time of the year. Also thanks for your generous offer of a 'new' spring, however I think I will pass. If the silly thing does not work, I will borrow one of the NV scatterguns to compete. The more I think about it, I will order a new WB Spring Kit right after I am finished here rather than the continued screwing around with something that is 60 years old. Thanks again - J.J.

Hello I am rather new at this WB stuff so sometimes I struggle with some things. Here is my problem: My 97 was modified a couple of years ago to accept 6 rounds. Last summer, as well as last fall, it loaded and cycled 6 shells just like it should. Tomorrow myself and a bunch of other guys are attending a WB Match in CA. Yesterday, just to see if the gun would again cycle the 6 shells I stoked it up. 5 shells cycled properly and the 6th shell hung hug up between the tube and lifter(?). I assumed that the spring was not strong enough to push out the 6th shell. Well - I took off the plug on the shell tube and stretched out the spring just a smidgen or two and put everything back together. Now I can only get in 5 and 7/8ths of the 6th shell. Any ideas what I may have done incorrectly and more importantly, how can the problem be corrected? Thanks for any help you may offer. J.J. High Plains Drifters and Roop County Cowboys Fernley NV

Can you delete matches already scored - Yup - with a push of the 'Edit' button and another push of the 'Delete' button, that particular match is as if it never was.

Just looked today at the price of iPads. A good used iPad runs something like $170. The ACES Program is 'Free' through iTunes or Google Play Store. Program can either be downloaded for iPads or tablets. Much experience with both. ACES works much easier through iPads.

ACES and Wild Bunch Yup - We have used ACES with Wild Bunch and Plainsman Matches here in Northern Nevada with great success. All you have to do is enter a new 'Category' for the matches. ACES is simple to use and the results are instant. No more keying for someone after the match. However - there is an associated learning curve on how to get the results printed. Anyone with a little computer knowledge can easily handle it. If you need any help, please contact me. Would be glad to help you out.