1897 with Barrel rail.

[Frenchie Boy]

Hello All,

 

I have a case here where I have been asked if the following 1897 Model 12 was legal or not.

Rail is setting on the top of the barrel ( see picture )

I don't think it is legal, as I didn't find any original 1897 model 12 having this sort of item. ( 1897 Basic Line, Trench or Riot )

 

I just would like to have confirmation of this.

 

Thanks for your answer

 

Eric

 

 

Note : Some more details : It is a Model 12 from 1950 and not a 1897 as first written.

[Doc Holloman]

The Model 12 Trench gun ( with the heat shield and bayonet lug) was used by the Army and USMC in WWI and by the USMC in WWII. Winchester definitely made them that way. 

 

A Model 12 Trench gun made an appearance at our recent State WB match.  I did a quick research of the rules and found nothing making it illegal.    If I missed it let me know as I have a model 12  that I am considering converting to a Trench gun.

[Garrison Joe]

That's a Winchester Model 12 with a vent rib.  Nothing I see that makes it illegal - unless that's a fluorescent red bead at the muzzle.  More complete picture might show something else.

 

Rule on page 13 of WB Shooter Handbook

Front sights may be blue, black, steel, ivory, faux ivory, brass, gold, pewter, copper, or silver.

 

If it's not one of those colors, it may be replaced pretty easily.

 

Don't see a heat shield or bayonet lug... don't know what the talk here about Trench Guns is about.

 

good luck, GJ

[Doc Holloman]

My mistake.  I was looking at  the tiny photo on my cell phone and thought I was looking at a trench gun.

 

[Happy Jack]

Model 12's with a vent rib are pretty common and  LEGAL. 

[Frenchie Boy]

Well this is a good new.

Here in Europe we only have very very few of these model 12.

In fact, it's even the first time I get to see one with vent Rib.

 

97 are more commun, even if today, it's quite hard to find any.

 

Thanks to all for your reply, and to Happy Jack for his straight answer.

 

 

[J. Frank Norfleet]

Okay, I'll bite.

I'd like to know what is on the muzzle? Is that an external adjustable choke like a poly-choke? I can't tell from the photograph. It has a sling swivel and looks like it is longer than the end of the barrel.

JFN

[Blackfoot]

Okay, I'll bite.

I'd like to know what is on the muzzle? Is that an external adjustable choke like a poly-choke? I can't tell from the photograph. It has a sling swivel and looks like it is longer than the end of the barrel.

JFN

That looks like a barrel band with sling swivel and attaching point for the rail.  Will this open the gate to allow cobbled up Model 12's??

 

Blackfoot

[Frenchie Boy]

Here a new picture of the Model 12.

 

The fluorescent red bead will be replaced with Legal item

[Happy Jack]

Frenchie.  That shotgun with the front bead changed is  LEGAL in your area.  We are much more lenient in countries with stricter firearm laws than we are here in the US with wide availability of obviously legal firearms.

[Happy Jack]

Doc, it has always been ILLEGAL to modify an existing standard issue shotgun to look like it was a "trench gun" style. Adding the heat shield, bayonet lug etc. part is NOT listed as an allowable external modification.

[Frenchie Boy]

 

In fact the question came from an Austrian WB shooter which might have the right ( After a LOT of paperwork ) to buy this Model 12.

I already forward your answer. He might get the approval mid next year, .... and Yes it's a loooooong time !!!.

 

So thanks again Happy Jack.

 

[Doc Holloman]

Doc, it has always been ILLEGAL to modify an existing standard issue shotgun to look like it was a "trench gun" style. Adding the heat shield, bayonet lug etc. part is NOT listed as an allowable external modification.

 

Interesting:  So an Original or clone Model 97 trench gun would be legal, but a 97 riot gun modified to  be a "faithful replica" Trench Gun is not?

 

Now that I look back at the rules, it could also be read that an original Model 12 trench gun might not be legal since the phrase "military style" is in a sentence that only applies to the 97.

 

Maybe we could use a rules clarification on this.