Who's shooting EOT Wild Bunch -----------

[CC Moonshine]

Howdy all,

 

Just wondering who all is coming ! I'm looking forward to it! I even have Ruby Ruthless shooting it too! She just got her first 1911 and is all set! 

 

[El Chapo]

Wish I could, but I'll be at the Western States Single Stack the weekend before, and I didn't think I could swing both.  I will still be shooting a 1911 along with 300+ others!

[marshal stone]

I am. Shooting the old/new Classic Traditional Elder Statesman

I understand over half the shooters switched to Classic.  YEEEEEE  HAAAAAA !!!!!!!!

Others would have but didn't bring the larger caliber rifles when they snow birded.

Marshal Stone

 

[CC Moonshine]

16 minutes ago, marshal stone said:

I am. Shooting the old/new Classic Traditional Elder Statesman

I understand over half the shooters switched to Classic.  YEEEEEE  HAAAAAA !!!!!!!!

Others would have but didn't bring the larger caliber rifles when they snow birded.

Marshal Stone

 

Awesome!

Super glad folks are embracing the choices in categories with the addition of the classics! 

Look forward to seeing you there!

 

[Flying W Ramrod]

I am.

Classic Modern Elder Statesman.

I also heard, well, over half have switched to Classic.

 

[wyliefox]

CAS has a who's coming!!!

I cannot find the WBAS list???

[CC Moonshine]

I think it would be perfect if at all major matches that around half signed up for Classic categories.

This would the balance we all hoped for, with everyone picking what fits for them.

I'm very glad to hear that several have moved over to it.

See many of you in about 2 weeks!

 

 

[Frederick Jackson Turner]

ES Classic Modern here. Seems to me we're back where we started.  Bring on the steel!

Cheers!

 

FJT

[CC Moonshine]

Hi All,

I don't think we are back where we started in the least.

• 3 years ago there were less then 25 clubs holding official WB matches or offering organized WB programs
  • Now we have over 95 clubs
• 3 years ago we had a very small minority making the decisions for WB
  • Now we have over 95 WB-TG's bringing the voices of their clubs world wide to the table
• 3 years ago anyone wanting to try WB had to make a big investment in a 1911, a 40 cal or above rifle and a pump sg
  • Now everyone can play by simply adding a 1911
• 3 years ago it was offered to have a "open" class and was rejected 
  • Now we have approached it from the other direction and have the classic categories as a win win for everyone
• Now we have more people doing/ trying WB then ever in the history of WB
• This year, there will be more organized sanctioned WB championship matches then ever held in a year (State, and Territorial)

I would say we  are a long way from where we were and the future looks pretty bright for the sport.

In a week we will have a WB-TG meeting at EOT and we hope there are several more great ideas for WB brought to the table for discussions  to start for 2026!

Everyone have a super rest of the week,

CC

 

[El Chapo]

What is the median age of a Wild Bunch competitor in 2026 vs. a few years ago?  I think that's a more interesting data point than the stuff you're posting.

There were 235 shooters at the 1911 match I just came back from in Mesa.  Has any Wild Bunch match anywhere ever had 235 shooters?

[Flying W Ramrod]

2 hours ago, El Chapo said:

What is the median age of a Wild Bunch competitor in 2026 vs. a few years ago?  I think that's a more interesting data point than the stuff you're posting.

There were 235 shooters at the 1911 match I just came back from in Mesa.  Has any Wild Bunch match anywhere ever had 235 shooters?

WB is not tracked by age. It's broken into age range categories.

2026 EOT WB had over 160 shooters. But, you weren't one....why?

[Boggus Deal]

2 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

WB is not tracked by age. It's broken into age range categories.

2026 EOT WB had over 160 shooters. But, you weren't one....why?

Because it’s not a shooting match. It was cowboy with a 1911 and who really wants to shoot that? When you can close your eyes, lean forward, bump the target with your muzzle and pull the trigger? What’s shooting about that?

[El Chapo]

2 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

WB is not tracked by age. It's broken into age range categories.

2026 EOT WB had over 160 shooters. But, you weren't one....why?

For there to be real growth, there needs to be people under age 38 entering the sport in significant numbers.  38 is the age of the median American in 2026.  If we poached a few dozen more cowboy shooters to throw on their 1911 and shoot WB, that is not growth any more than a few more shooters at a side match is growth.  Wild Bunch isn't a side match.  Tracking how many people below the median age are coming to shoot with us is a big deal.

I was actually signed up for EoT but my wife's schedule changed in January, which allowed us to travel for 3 other matches (two of which I got to shoot WB) that we would have otherwise missed but I had to withdraw from EoT.  The intention was for her schedule to change after EoT, but somehow there was a miscommunication.  I had signed up in August and to say I was bummed at the time would be an understatement.

I don't really know anything about how the stages were constructed at EoT but there's no reason why WB should not be a dynamic run and gun.  In the match I just came from on Sunday, the total number of shots was 305 over 14 stages.  The winner did it in 227.34 seconds, which means he shot an average of 1.34 rounds per second he was on the clock.  We have a gun that can be easily reloaded and shot more, so why not take advantage of that?

[Flying W Ramrod]

1 hour ago, El Chapo said:

For there to be real growth, there needs to be people under age 38 entering the sport in significant numbers.  38 is the age of the median American in 2026.  If we poached a few dozen more cowboy shooters to throw on their 1911 and shoot WB, that is not growth any more than a few more shooters at a side match is growth.  Wild Bunch isn't a side match.  Tracking how many people below the median age are coming to shoot with us is a big deal.

I was actually signed up for EoT but my wife's schedule changed in January, which allowed us to travel for 3 other matches (two of which I got to shoot WB) that we would have otherwise missed but I had to withdraw from EoT.  The intention was for her schedule to change after EoT, but somehow there was a miscommunication.  I had signed up in August and to say I was bummed at the time would be an understatement.

I don't really know anything about how the stages were constructed at EoT but there's no reason why WB should not be a dynamic run and gun.  In the match I just came from on Sunday, the total number of shots was 305 over 14 stages.  The winner did it in 227.34 seconds, which means he shot an average of 1.34 rounds per second he was on the clock.  We have a gun that can be easily reloaded and shot more, so why not take advantage of that?

Now compare that match to a 3 gun match. Basically that's what WB is.

168 shooters.

It's been tried for decades to get other disciplines into WB. Since we don't do Condition 1 and run and gun, probably won't happen soon.

In a similar vein, Cowtown was told "if you allow condition 1 and movement, we'd shoot it". So Cowtown did and...... Those shooters said, "oh, we sold our guns years ago, we don't do that anymore, we just shoot cowboy".

Lots of talk, little or no action.

If you have any ideas or a template to get others in, let SASS know and, maybe, just maybe, it could happen.

[Flying W Ramrod]

2 hours ago, Boggus Deal said:

Because it’s not a shooting match. It was cowboy with a 1911 and who really wants to shoot that? When you can close your eyes, lean forward, bump the target with your muzzle and pull the trigger? What’s shooting about that?

Dude, you keep bitching and complaining but I don't see you putting any ideas up.

Stop it.

[El Chapo]

57 minutes ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

Now compare that match to a 3 gun match. Basically that's what WB is.

168 shooters.

It's been tried for decades to get other disciplines into WB. Since we don't do Condition 1 and run and gun, probably won't happen soon.

In a similar vein, Cowtown was told "if you allow condition 1 and movement, we'd shoot it". So Cowtown did and...... Those shooters said, "oh, we sold our guns years ago, we don't do that anymore, we just shoot cowboy".

Lots of talk, little or no action.

If you have any ideas or a template to get others in, let SASS know and, maybe, just maybe, it could happen.

I don't know why people keep saying "it's been tried."  How?  Gen Z people are on tiktok.  They are not reading this (or any) forum.  When they were born, the internet already existed.  Before they became old enough to have an account on social media, social media exploded and they look at it for 16 hours a day.  When's the last time you saw anything related to Wild Bunch on Tiktok?  If we are serious about reaching Gen Z and Alpha new members, the marketing has to fit the target audience.  I am far from an expert on how to do it, and they're half my age, so they're not in my social network.  But until I see a critical mass of young adults who are not at a match with their parents, my response to "it's been tried" is that is nonsense.  Whatever was tried didn't work because it didn't aim at the target, it just shot aimlessly out into the world.

As for condition 1 and movement, it is absolutely essential.  It is the change that will make this into a dynamic and exciting shooting sport instead of a game based on a hybrid between movie reenactment and target shooting.  I'm sure the movement especially will come with considerable opposition, because the majority of the people shooting this game came from SASS's other game.  That is how it started after all.   But if we want our own identity, there is one way forward: make it athletic.  It's already fast; people comment all the time about how rare it is to have a clean WB match (I'm proud to have two of them).  So the next layer is get people's feet moving.  Get the sights bouncing and put some long shots in there.  Raise the round counts.  We have a whole bay, so it's time to use it.

[Flying W Ramrod]

7 hours ago, El Chapo said:

I don't know why people keep saying "it's been tried."  How?  Gen Z people are on tiktok.  They are not reading this (or any) forum.  When they were born, the internet already existed.  Before they became old enough to have an account on social media, social media exploded and they look at it for 16 hours a day.  When's the last time you saw anything related to Wild Bunch on Tiktok?  If we are serious about reaching Gen Z and Alpha new members, the marketing has to fit the target audience.  I am far from an expert on how to do it, and they're half my age, so they're not in my social network.  But until I see a critical mass of young adults who are not at a match with their parents, my response to "it's been tried" is that is nonsense.  Whatever was tried didn't work because it didn't aim at the target, it just shot aimlessly out into the world.

As for condition 1 and movement, it is absolutely essential.  It is the change that will make this into a dynamic and exciting shooting sport instead of a game based on a hybrid between movie reenactment and target shooting.  I'm sure the movement especially will come with considerable opposition, because the majority of the people shooting this game came from SASS's other game.  That is how it started after all.   But if we want our own identity, there is one way forward: make it athletic.  It's already fast; people comment all the time about how rare it is to have a clean WB match (I'm proud to have two of them).  So the next layer is get people's feet moving.  Get the sights bouncing and put some long shots in there.  Raise the round counts.  We have a whole bay, so it's time to use it.

Let's see. 1000+ bucks for a rifle, 1000+ bucks for a pistol, 1000+ bucks for a shotgun.

Gen Z can't afford to get into the game.

They don't have the disposable income nor time to play. They're invested in earning a living, family, stuff other than shooting.

Start a tik tok string up, see how it works. Don't think you'll get many, gen z, followers but, I've been wrong before

It was said, the Youth were the future of SASS. The youth won't be playing cowboy or wild bunch until they are the old.

[El Chapo]

11 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

Let's see. 1000+ bucks for a rifle, 1000+ bucks for a pistol, 1000+ bucks for a shotgun.

Gen Z can't afford to get into the game.

They don't have the disposable income nor time to play. They're invested in earning a living, family, stuff other than shooting.

Start a tik tok string up, see how it works. Don't think you'll get many, gen z, followers but, I've been wrong before

It was said, the Youth were the future of SASS. The youth won't be playing cowboy or wild bunch until they are the old.

You can buy a 1911 for $300 these days, not sure I have seen a $1000 1911 in anyone's holster at a WB match.  My wild bunch gun definitely wasn't $1000, not now nor 22 years ago when I bought it.

Pump shotguns are under $500.  There are M12s on Gunbroker for $3-400 all the time.

Rifle there's a lot of cheaper options, but yeah, a 73 costs more than a thousand bucks.

Gen Z put Creed back on the charts 30 years later.  Dozens of them were shooting at the match I was at last weekend, which has a similar cost of entry.  They're showing up and doing very well.  A friend of mine won the USPSA Production Nationals in 2016, I believe he was 18 years old at the time.  He isn't quite Gen Z, but he was shooting at 12.

Interesting how the goal post moved after I pointed out that your response is not credible.  Nobody has marketed it to them, and it's not "cool," so they're not doing it.  They aren't having kids, either, the birthrate among them is a fraction of what it was for our generations.  I don't know how Creed is getting people who weren't even born when the records came out to come to their concerts, but their concerts are full of people who weren't born when I first heard the songs, which I didn't think were particularly remarkable even then.

The youth are the future of everything.  If we don't market to them, we're done.  Make it "cool" and they'll show up.

I shot my first match a few weeks after my 21st birthday when I became old enough to buy a handgun.  There's no reason we can't reel them in.  I shot more when I was in my 20s than I do now, and I actively try to find the time now compared to then when I just showed up.

If PRS, USPSA, NRL22, IPSC, IDPA, ATA, NSSA, and so on can do it, we can, too.

[Flying W Ramrod]

39 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

You can buy a 1911 for $300 these days, not sure I have seen a $1000 1911 in anyone's holster at a WB match.  My wild bunch gun definitely wasn't $1000, not now nor 22 years ago when I bought it.

Pump shotguns are under $500.  There are M12s on Gunbroker for $3-400 all the time.

Rifle there's a lot of cheaper options, but yeah, a 73 costs more than a thousand bucks.

Gen Z put Creed back on the charts 30 years later.  Dozens of them were shooting at the match I was at last weekend, which has a similar cost of entry.  They're showing up and doing very well.  A friend of mine won the USPSA Production Nationals in 2016, I believe he was 18 years old at the time.  He isn't quite Gen Z, but he was shooting at 12.

Interesting how the goal post moved after I pointed out that your response is not credible.  Nobody has marketed it to them, and it's not "cool," so they're not doing it.  They aren't having kids, either, the birthrate among them is a fraction of what it was for our generations.  I don't know how Creed is getting people who weren't even born when the records came out to come to their concerts, but their concerts are full of people who weren't born when I first heard the songs, which I didn't think were particularly remarkable even then.

The youth are the future of everything.  If we don't market to them, we're done.  Make it "cool" and they'll show up.

I shot my first match a few weeks after my 21st birthday when I became old enough to buy a handgun.  There's no reason we can't reel them in.  I shot more when I was in my 20s than I do now, and I actively try to find the time now compared to then when I just showed up.

If PRS, USPSA, NRL22, IPSC, IDPA, ATA, NSSA, and so on can do it, we can, too.

I'm all for getting more folks shooting our sport. Just need to figure out how to do it. 

I'm not a toker, is that a thing?

You might contact SASS to see who is in charge of electronic media advertising. Maybe work with them on what sites to focus on and how to do it.

Most us shooters are so old we remember dirt with it was new 😄

I shot my first match in 1971 in Navy boot camp. Didn't touch one again until I started wild bunch. Standing Top Side watch, in the Navy, you carried one but it didn't even have a mag in the well.

In our case, if there was trouble, we'd just submerge 😄

 

[Artemus]

As part of the under 38 demographic, things that make the game interesting:

• Condition 1, movement with loaded chamber.
• WB was always cheaper to get into $600 1911 vs $1700 revolvers.
  • Doughboy and Teddy Roosevelt got to a $500 rifle
• Big guns at further targets, DB and TR was much more fun than pistol cal. See 3 gun rifle distances.
• Targets getting bigger and closer are less interesting for WB. It was nice being able to shoot two different games (targets/speeds) between WB and cowboy. 
• shooter's choice on gun was great, but that's fading out with the PF changes. It let the shooter attack the stage how they wanted to do so. 

I am glad to see the correction with recommended pistol round count.