EOT Wild Bunch 2025

[Jorge]

How was the match?  Any comments about it?

[Flying W Ramrod]

There was an, uploading, computer glitch. Scores should be posted on EOT site tonight.

 

Match was challenging. Only 1 clean match, Holy Terror.

Lots of movement, some small, dueling tree, targets.

Think all had an interesting time.

I imagine, next week, will have more reports as folks come home.

 

[Artemus]

There were a lot of SDQ. Too many of the adjacent stages had targets painted opposite, in ex. one stage the red was a multi hit and black targets were single hits. The next stage the targets were painted in the opposite way and added to confusion. The kill em all stage, was challenging for the shooters and TO alike since there were only 7 targets to a position and you could not shoot targets at the next position. This lead to lots of clearing guns for movement and SDQ. 

Every stage was rifle not last, which was found to be needed based on the prior year's speed rifle sidematch with 38s. We need to get back to a 150PF, so we can keep the game playable as you want. First five stages offered a little more flexibility in how the stages were shot vs the last five. 

[El Chapo]

16 hours ago, Artemus said:

Every stage was rifle not last, which was found to be needed based on the prior year's speed rifle sidematch with 38s. We need to get back to a 150PF, so we can keep the game playable as you want. First five stages offered a little more flexibility in how the stages were shot vs the last five. 

 

I wonder if it'd be possible to go to 150 pf even with the .38s?  I am pretty sure I can get a 158 grain bullet to 1000 fps no problem out of my rifle even with 38 brass and probably with the powder I'm already using.

[Garrison Joe]

You answered your own question there, EC.   Yes, a good load like that CAN work in a .38 special case if you "shoot for" the 150 PF target.  GJ

[Jorge]

Sounds like a difficult match.  What were some other comments from other shooters?

[Boggus Deal]

Well, there were 33 stage DQs. With two people getting two stage DQs. 

[Artemus]

1 hour ago, Boggus Deal said:

Well, there were 33 stage DQs. With two people getting two stage DQs. 

Who needs 20% clean when you have more than 20% with SDQ

[Boggus Deal]

3 hours ago, Artemus said:

Who needs 20% clean when you have more than 20% with SDQ

Exactly! 

[Buffalo Belle]

I thought it was a great match. Challenging stages are what set WB apart from Cowboy.  For the record, I've missed more in 8 stages of Cowboy so far, than I did in 10 stages of WB! 

[Jorge]

Many complained when the targets were small and the distances greater than "Cowboy," and there were a lot of misses.

 What did they think of a match with so many SDQ's?  Sounded like an excessive number, given the Competition level at EOT.

[Garrison Joe]

Hmmm, 20% of the shooters were dangerous enough to earn a SDQ or two?   Seems to say there needs to be MUCH better introduction of new shooters to the safety precepts common to all kinds of action shooting, but especially with the 1911.  None of our SDQ penalties are for a trivial safety malfunction by shooter, except for shooting out of category.  good luck, GJ

[Boggus Deal]

17 hours ago, Garrison Joe said:

Hmmm, 20% of the shooters were dangerous enough to earn a SDQ or two?   Seems to say there needs to be MUCH better introduction of new shooters to the safety precepts common to all kinds of action shooting, but especially with the 1911.  None of our SDQ penalties are for a trivial safety malfunction by shooter, except for shooting out of category.  good luck, GJ

Poor stage design combined with cowboy shooters…

[El Chapo]

On 2/28/2025 at 2:16 PM, Garrison Joe said:

You answered your own question there, EC.   Yes, a good load like that CAN work in a .38 special case if you "shoot for" the 150 PF target.  GJ

 

My comment wasn't to determine if it was possible, my question was whether we can persuade them to change the rules to require it.

[Garrison Joe]

3 hours ago, El Chapo said:

my question was whether we can persuade them to change the rules to require it.

Considering the fact that the current administration is trying to attract shooters to Wild Bunch who refuse to buy a 40 caliber or higher gun, or even load a heavy factory type load in .38 special, I'd say the politics would prevent it.  Even if it would be ballistically feasible.  GJ

[El Chapo]

19 hours ago, Garrison Joe said:

Considering the fact that the current administration is trying to attract shooters to Wild Bunch who refuse to buy a 40 caliber or higher gun, or even load a heavy factory type load in .38 special, I'd say the politics would prevent it.  Even if it would be ballistically feasible.  GJ

 

That's kinda what I was thinking without saying it.

I would support raising the PF for rifles to 150 and the handguns to 175-180.

[Boggus Deal]

14 hours ago, El Chapo said:

 

That's kinda what I was thinking without saying it.

I would support raising the PF for rifles to 150 and the handguns to 175-180.

But with the goal to get the targets so close to bump them with the muzzle, that power factor would be too dangerous. Remember, this is about “entertainment”, not shooting skills. People want a clean match so instead of learning to shoot better, that’s make the targets so big and so close, you have to try to miss them. 

[El Chapo]

2 hours ago, Boggus Deal said:

But with the goal to get the targets so close to bump them with the muzzle, that power factor would be too dangerous. Remember, this is about “entertainment”, not shooting skills. People want a clean match so instead of learning to shoot better, that’s make the targets so big and so close, you have to try to miss them. 

 

Yet I shot 170+ PF ammo at steel targets in another shooting sport (as I was required to do by the rules) and not only did nobody die or get hurt, even jacketed bullets were allowed!

Old habits die hard.  SASS is more guilty of it than any other sport I've tried. 

Although I'm not even sure my gun will run with 150 pf .45 ACP--I've never tried to load it.

[Boggus Deal]

23 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

 

Yet I shot 170+ PF ammo at steel targets in another shooting sport (as I was required to do by the rules) and not only did nobody die or get hurt, even jacketed bullets were allowed!

Old habits die hard.  SASS is more guilty of it than any other sport I've tried. 

Although I'm not even sure my gun will run with 150 pf .45 ACP--I've never tried to load it.

But the targets weren’t 3 feet away…

And nobody runs at 150. The shooters run around 165. For the cushion.

[CC Moonshine]

Howdy all,

Misty and I both shot the match and enjoyed it for what it was. 

Target distances were fine but I found some of the stage movement odd in choice combined with odd target sequences on some stages.

But I think the vast majority of the SDQ's occurred with 170 violations. Ben Avery SC doesn't present many options for downrange movement so

the lateral movement with the firearms leaves a high degree of SDQ's during that movement with firearms in hand. 

Not to splash fuel on the flame but I ran the timer a great deal for both WB and CAS at EOT and rifle last would have been zero issue picking up for all the shooters I ran.

All in all I feel EOT-WB was more of a success then in the past with a great number of new to WB shooters.

It was also very encouraging talking with so many folks that have WB firing up in their home areas for the first time.

I felt the WB-TG meeting was productive and we had great participation.

 

Have a great week everyone,

CC  

[Medicine Creek Johnny]

I thought the stages were fine.  Some challenging targets but not over the top for a WB match.  I don’t think you can blame 170 violations on the stage writer.  That is on the shooter

[Boggus Deal]

9 minutes ago, Medicine Creek Johnny said:

I thought the stages were fine.  Some challenging targets but not over the top for a WB match.  I don’t think you can blame 170 violations on the stage writer.  That is on the shooter

Most of the SDQs were moving with a loaded gun on the all knock down stage.

[Medicine Creek Johnny]

Just now, Boggus Deal said:

Most of the SDQs were moving with a loaded gun on the all knock down stage.

Yes they were Boggus.  But that still falls to the shooter.  It was more challenging but moving with a round in the chamber has been a DQ from the beginning.  There were also many 170 violations.  I’d like to see the official stats on the cause of DQs

[Marshal5]

It is obvious that Wild bunch is evolving as a shooting sport. I suspect we will never find the perfect target arrangement, target distance or stage design as we all have our likes and dislikes. I have shot several different matches with targets at Far distance and some matches where I might scrape my front sight on the target it is so close. This year EOT was a challenge but nothing wrong with that we all shot the same course of fire . Our biggest goal should always be safety. Some stages seem to test the shooters on not moving with the loaded firearm. I think that we need to examine those stage designs and make improvements to help the shooter.

that being said designing the stages for anY match let alone EOT is a major chore and I truly appreciate those who take on the task.

[Sedalia Dave]

On 3/9/2025 at 10:18 AM, Medicine Creek Johnny said:

Yes they were Boggus.  But that still falls to the shooter.  It was more challenging but moving with a round in the chamber has been a DQ from the beginning.  There were also many 170 violations.  I’d like to see the official stats on the cause of DQs

Would also be interesting to know how many first time or nearly first time WB shooters there were in attendance.

And how many of the SDQs were earned by first time or nearly first time WB shooters.

No matter how many SASS matches a person has under their belt it doesn't really prepare a shooter for full on WB.  Neither does shooting a SASS match with a 1911 as those matches are usually lacking in the action department.

I am always amazed at how many first time or nearly first time SASS shooters attend state and above matches.

I get this is an entertainment business but I sure hope WB doesn't get dumbed down to the point where it is SASS with a 1911 because of how EOT unfolded..