Abe E.S. Corpus

We are pretty hard pressed to have any WBAS matches in my area (people are working on it), much less a BAMM side match but I would love to try it. At a recent gun show I ran across an FN 1924 manufactured for the Mexican government in 7mm Mauser. I thought, what could be better? I let that one go. I happened to stop by my local Cabelas today to pick up some ammo boxes and what did they have in the "Library" but a 1903A3 and a K31. Just right for BAMM, right?

Thanks, Travis.

Any hints of what might be changing?

Lots of suitable powders; many have been mentioned. If you like the faster burning powders you might like Clean Shot from Shooters World. It is a very fine grained powder. If you prefer a midrange powder such as Unique, consider Universal or IMR's Unequal which is its "answer" to Unique.

I've not had the pleasure of meeting Frank or Boggus but their contributions to the community through this forum is always positive.

I started cowboy action seven years ago. Atbthat time it seemed that most stage instructions were specific as to shooting positions, target designations and even target order. Over time, though, I noticed some changes: sweeps could begin on either side of a target array. The shooter begins at Position A but can move to either Position B or Position C. I have seen this general trend in Wild Bunch. My local club lost its Wild Bunch match day to Three Gun. There was a growing demand among club members and numbers matter. I tried it a couple of times. One of the features that I found interesting was how shooters were sometimes given the option of which firearms to use when engaging targets. For example, on a particular stage the shooter could engage KDs with pistol or shotgun. Very interesting. I shot a Wild Bunch match yesterday. On one stage there was a line of poppers. Stage instructions said to engage three KDs with the rifle, then shoot the shotgun, and with the pistol alternate between a static target and KDs. From the written instructions it appeared that the rifle targets were the ones on the right end of the array but in the walkthrough the MD said that the shooter could engage any three KDs with the rifle. Because the static target was above the right side of the target array, I decided to engage the poppers on the left side of the array, so that less movement was needed to alternate pistol shots between the static target and the remaining KDs. I thought the flexibility in that stage was interesting. It made me think. Has anyone seen this in Wild Bunch matches? Think it's a good idea?

More good pointers. Two local clubs used activators that had to be shot. Those were cowboy matches but the stage instructions covered what to do if the shooter missed the activator. These matches were after the WBAS match that prompted this topic so I was very interested in knowing how to shoot it or call it. We've been shooting clay-launching poppers with shotguns for years in cowboy matches but we never faced the one shot/two misses problem because of the Comstock Rule.

I agree but in this instance the stage instructions are silent and there is no alternative target so I am trying to figure out how this would play out under the Stage Conventions.

Thanks, GJ. I ran a search before posting but did not see the prior discussion. I omitted discussion of the options that would result in a Procedural but those are certainly possible outcomes.

I have a copy of PaleWolf Brunelle's "Shooter's Choice" document in my SASS notebook; it explains a shooter's options when a shooter ejects a live round from the rifle in the middle of a shooting string that requires targets to be engaged in a particular sequence, such as a sweep. The "Shooter's Choice Doctrine" also applies to cap-only ignition in a percussion revolver or a bad round in a cartridge revolver. In very simple terms, the shooter can skip the target that he/she had engaged when the problem happened, taking the five second penalty for the unfired round. Alternatively the shooter can re-engage that target, and choose to take the penalty for the unfired round without reloading, or "reload at the end of the string for the last target"; this last option would result in no penalty. The broader question is whether "Shooters Choice" applies in Wild Bunch. I would think it does. The narrower question is whether the option to reload the pistol to make up for an ejected round (typically as the result of clearing a malfunction) applies only "at the end of the string" as written in PaleWolf's excellent document. Consider a stage with a 20 pistol round count. The shooter is to sweep five pistol KDs from the starting position, then move to engage the remaining pistol targets. Shooter drops P1 and P2, then has a malfunction and ejects a round. Shooter re-engages and drops P3, and drops P4. Pistol is at slide lock but assume shooter has a clean match going, is OCD and bothered by targets left standing. Can he reload and engage P5 even though it is not at the end of the pistol string? I would say so, and consider the "end of the string" language is due to the differences in how cowboy guns are reloaded versus a 1911. Of course, our shooter will have to put the pistol at slide lock in order to move to the second shooting position. Thoughts?

The situation that prompted the question was a jacked out shell. Just to clarify, let's assume there are six shotgun targets, three clay launching poppers, each with a clay to be engaged in the air. Shooter engages the first popper but misses it, so no clay is launched. Same result with second and third popper. Assuming shotgun is not the last gun on the stage the shooter has to eject the unfired rounds before discarding the shotgun. Call is six misses but there is no additional penalty for the unfired rounds, right?

Thanks.

I had assumed that an otherwise compliant 1911 with an external extractor, like the S&W or the Sig Sauer, would be legal. I will watch for an update.

Thanks, all. Turns out the spring was trimmed when the action work was done. My first main match shotgun was a Coyote Cap 1897 that was well broken in by the two or three prior owners. It spoiled me a little. Part of my issue is that my M12 is a later model with the larger diameter forend and grip area on the stock. I acquired a corncob forend and plan to narrow the grip portion of the stock. I think this will give me a better hold on the gun.

I ran a search but did not see this addressed. My Model 12 has had a little attention from a local gunsmith but I'm pretty sure he left the springs alone. It takes more effort to cycle as compared with the two '97s I have owned so I am wondering whether the stock hammer spring can be shortened a little. Reliable ignition is more important to me than having the lightest and slickest gun on the range. That said, can I safely cut a coil or two?

The Belton Bushwhackers (local SASS affiliated club) occasionally offers a game called "Road to Perdition" which is much like WBAS except that a semiauto Thompson is used for the rifle. They also offer Wild Bunch at those matches.

I have two double magazine pouches for reloads and I carry a fifth mag to the LT to start off the stage. Our local matches are usually 20 pistol rounds per stage, seldom more so my five magazines give me five extra rounds in case a malfunction causes me to toss out a live round. I used to carry a "Barney mag" loaded with one round but I grabbed it by mistake in a match and got one round off when I wanted five. Keep in mind that a loaded magazine can be carried in a pocket. We were using Model 12s before they were officially allowed. I don't have trouble remembering to show it to the TO. I forget other stuff! Lots of used Model 12s out there. I don't feel quite as confident with the M12 as I do with a '97, having more trigger time with the former, but that's nothing to do with the gun. For lack of another way to carry extra shotshells to the line, I wear a single loop shotgun belt for Wild Bunch. If I need more than six shells on a stage (rare in my area). I pull them from the belt and single load through the ejection port.

A recent match I attended had a stage with six shotgun targets. There were three steel poppers that launch a clay target into the air when hit. As a side note, when we use these "clay poppers" in cowboy matches the clay is usually a bonus target. In the WBAS match each steel popper and each clay was a target to be engaged. The shooter in question hit the first five targets but jacked out a live shell when the last clay target was in the air. After the clay hit the ground, the shooter (with no prompting by the TO) loaded a new shell through the port and fired it into the berm. He went on to engage rifle and pistol targets without incident. He was assessed one miss for the clay not broken in the air. WTC #1: Was it necessary for the shooter to fire the 6th shot to avoid an additional penalty? I say no because he "engaged" the clay by cycling the shotgun and pointing it at the target, and because this was a moving target that could not be "re-engaged" (unlike a static target), there was nothing to be gained by loading and firing the additional shell. WTC #2: Is there any penalty for loading and firing the extra shell, given that there was no way to re-engage that target (that would seem like a "hard horse" call to me). Hypothetical WTC #3: Assume the shooter fires at the last popper but fails to drop it. Since that target is the activator for the aerial clay, is there any way for the shooter to avoid being assessed two misses for one "missed" target? As an editorial comment, I really enjoy reactive steel targets but they can lead to some interesting WTC situations.

Thank you, Jack. I shot my first WBAS match in over a year yesterday. Hoping for more opportunities to shoot later on in the year.

When the rule came about, my friend Hollifer A. Dollar developed this little comedy routine of calling the TO over and showing off his Model 12. I thought it was clever and fun so I do a version of that now.

Did anyone from the rules committee chime in on the OP's question about the legality of the Wilson Combat "removable" frontstrap checkering piece? I had one on my gun (was trying to determine whether to pay to have my frame checkered) but I pulled it to avoid a controversy about its legality.

My club discontinued WBAS but another club in my area is going to offer matches in 2016 so I am starting to hear more "is this legal for Wild Bunch" questions. This one came from a local shooter earlier this week: is the Llama .45 a "1911 type" pistol? There is one for sale locally. My search suggested that most parts will not interchange with 1911 parts but the Llama will usually accept (how comforting) a 1911 magazine. From the photos I gather that the pistol has the same functional parts as a 1911, including a grip safety. It has an external extractor but so do a couple of other brands that seem to be accepted as 1911 style pistols. It does appear to have a low rib atop the slide, but if it is integral and not "attached" it arguably is not covered by the prohibition. I already expressed my opinion to the shooter about quality and parts availability. Legal for WBAS?

For someone named "Quick" there sure are lots of pauses in the post. I think some mobile phones tend to add periods to text. Mr. Mule, are you looking for bullets or are you looking for ammunition? If you want bullets I suggest Clark's Bullets and recommend the 200 grain SWCs. I've never purchased any ammo with lead bullets in .45 ACP.

That makes sense to me. Thank you, Jack.

Thanks, Joe. I agree that the shooter is responsible for the condition of the gun and in this example the shooter should have either cleared the gun before restaging OR declared a malfunction. By the way, I was running the timer and should have stopped the shooter before the pistol was put down.