Tully Mars

It was a great match. Badge Pusher I was looking for you :) Tully

August West, Found this link on the Winter Range site. Lays the rules out nicely. Hope to see you there! Tully http://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/handbooks/2018%20WB%20RULE%20CHANGES%20revised%209%20Nov%2017.pdf

GJ, Not so much keeping up, but being in the proper position to actually see the slide being racked. I'm speaking of moving out of props and forward to another position, such as what we'll have at WR. Some of those buildings aren't suited for having a spotter in position either. Maybe I'm overthinking it? Tully

http://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/forum/index.php?topic=2451.0 Then go to the WB handbook and see the changes. Tully

GJ, I agree and will make the call on behalf of the shooter if I'm not right there and 100% positive of what I see, unless directed differently well before WR. You and I both know how difficult it could be to keep up with some of our shooters. It otherwise becomes to subjective, just like spotters saying "I think"! Nothing worse than someone voicing those words unless it's to the benefit of the shooter. We all see things differently at times, but once "I think" is voiced everyone starts to question what they themselves saw. Thanks, See you soon! Tully August West, Lets start another page about your questions so we don't confuse the issues. TM

August my understanding is it's a penalty either way. Round in chamber = SDQ, empty chamber = MSV. I do not want to stop someone who has an empty chamber an add time to their penalty. Just looking for the correct way to make this call. See you soon!

With the new rules change in regards to moving with the slide forward penalty, when is the appropriate time to make that call? In the past it was a SDQ so stopping the shooter immediately was appropriate. However if we now stop a shooter and the gun is empty we've now penalized that shooter additional time on top of the 10 second MSV. I'm assuming it's appropriate if the TO counts 7 shots and see's the shooter move with the slide forward, to wait until the next magazine is inserted and the slide racked to make the determination on the call? MSV stay quite till the end of the stage, SDQ stop the shooter then? If the TO is not able to keep up with the shooter and be right there when the slide is racked, is a live round on the ground sufficient to make the call? Some shooters move very fast. Thanks, Tully

Thanks GJ, Tully

Is there information for Friday's warm up match? Thanks, Tully

I've been on the side of the rifle should never have been involved in WB. The reason being it's never been used to it's capability's, putting targets out at distance's of 35-50 yards such as plate racks, dueling trees and smaller plates would be a fine idea. At Chabot in the Oakland Hills we would shoot 3" angle iron at 40-45 yard or 2x2's hung on strings at the same distance. 6" knock downs at 35 yards it was challenging, fun, doable and everyone shot the same targets. This was not a SASS cowboy shoot, stoked 97's and big bores were the way to go! By the way pistol targets were at 5-35 yards as well, sometimes those 6" knock downs were the pistol targets at the same distance, you had to be shooting good loads. The 2x2's of course wouldn't be practical or the angle iron as it sent lead long distance in the wrong direction. I'm all for it, others will not like it! Tully

Thanks to everyone. Apparently I need a refresher course! Tully

Hey Sammy, Okay. That's not how I recall the description during the RO classes I've taken, but it's been awhile :) Thanks, Tully

I for one agree Sammy! It simplifies everything and it gets rid of the illusion of inappropriate placement in the final standings of a shooter. Besides SDQ's are truly a major safety violation that should effect a shooters outcome. A good friend pointed out that earning SDQ should be a time for education, and reflect. Reflecting on your unsafe movements or gun handling and educating and training yourself not to repeat that particular violation again. So yes my opinion on getting a SDQ has changed within the time frame of this "post". TT has always been the scoring method I've believe in. But if we're using the Stage Rank or any other system we should live with the standings knowing placements will change if we have overall winners as well as category winners. Tully

This question may have been answered here before, but I'm asking it again. After dropping the magazine and showing clear it has always been my understanding that the slide must be released and allow to go into battery. Today a shooter was gently putting the slide forward and was told that was perfectly ok. I interrupt the wording "allow the slide to go forward into battery" as Allow the slide to move under it's own power. Of course the wording "unimpeded" is used in regards to the trigger and not the slide. So what's the correct procedure? Below is copied from the WB handbook. UNLOAD and SHOW CLEAR: this means remove any live rounds and the magazine if one is inserted, and with the slide open hold the pistol so the official can see there is no magazine inserted and the chamber is empty. SLIDE DOWN: This means allow the slide to go forward to battery. HAMMER DOWN: While the pistol is pointed in a safe direction pull the trigger allowing the hammer to drop, unimpeded. Thanks, Tully

Maybe we just do away with overall? If the men's and women's scores or rank are separated to get results for overall that's not really representative of the true overall placement. If we keep any scoring system were folks are ranked or scored amongst those in their category and then against everyone else's rankings will change. So we either get rid of overall, find a system that will not allow results to change when going from category to overall (TT) or live with knowing things may change. Personally I think the system works, but it rewards a SDQ which I've benefited from and personal overall standings will likely change for some. Many of us have shot matches we haven't been happy with and sat in the chairs at the awards and clapped for a shooter who is in the top 10 with a SDQ, it hurts and doesn't seem right, but when the scores are out and we can truly see how well the person did in that particular match I would like to think most of us move past being butt hurt to feeling good for the shooter. TT is just straight forward and works, SDQ's will hurt us badly though. Tully

The problem isn't simple math, the problem is understanding how shooters can go from third to overall winner. Personally I think there's nothing wrong with the current system or with the results of EOT. The final results recognize how well each shooter shot in regards to those in their category and overall against everyone else. As long as we offer overall and category winners shooters placement may change. I do however like TT because it's simply straight forward and would eliminate the "perception of unfairness". Or get rid of overall winner, which doesn't seem right either. Tully

Total Time would be my preference. Tully

Winter Range did a very nice job of posting the times directly above the shooters percentage. Thanks HJ, Tully

In my opinion as long as there is an overall winner awarded it should be in the order of finish in regards to every shooter. SDQ's suck! But when pushing your limits in competition they can happen. If this was a sport with money on the table I'm sure things would be different. If a SDQ becomes an automatic unrecoverable penalty then we won't see true on the edge competition. Do we really want to discourage shooters at State, National and World championship's from pushing their limits? Fact is both Idaho Six Gun Sam and Texas Tiger shot great matches looking at the results. Looking at the final scores I see at least one other SDQ and that shooter had a very respectable finish. Having had SDQ's myself and finishing well in the pack I've always felt blessed. It's a shame to shoot six winning stages and not be at least recognized for the accomplishment. It's my opinion that both shooter's in this case received acknowledgment for shooting great matches. I'm sure each shooter wishes things could have been different, but that's life. Stage times should be available, how else can a shooter see how and where to improve? Tully

I own this holster, it's not my WB holster, but it's a great holster! Tully

Back 40, I didn't notice the "bold", just wanted to be clear that I wasn't suggesting "locked & cocked", that's all. As usual I could have found a better way to state it. Tully

Back 40, Just being clear, I wasn't recommending locked and cocked. Tully

If we're looking to grow interest is WB I think we need to find away to draw shooters from outside of Cowboy. I have some thoughts and they all go against the mind set of what WB was intended to be. 1. Change from 5 to 7 round magazines. We'll never go locked and cocked, but we can increase the rounds closer to other sports were the 1911 is shot. 2. Add one category, "The Pistolero". Pistol and shotgun only. None of our targets are out of pistol range, besides WB is suppose to be challenging. Most shooters of IDPA or USPSA have a 1911 and shotguns are more or less reasonable compared to a match rifle. Rifle round count would need to be adjusted appropriately. 3. Consider smaller frame 1911's (Springfield EMP) chambered for 9mm, after all the 9mm has been around since 1902. This may open it up to people with smaller hands that have avoided WB because of the 1911. Yep this might mean another category (Wild Bunch Lite?) and shouldn't be an issue with knock downs. 4. Drop the power factor requirement, make it clear that the targets must go down, shooter lives with the results. I'm sure there's more, but that's all for now. Tully

Congratulations to all the winners! I had the pleasure of shooting with Captain Sam Evans, he is an excellent shooter! He worked very hard for this win, it was a tough field of competitors. Well done and Congratulations! Tully

Congratulations JFN!