Garrison Joe

Now, that stuff above may seem like a long list. The newer your gun and the higher quality build that was done with, the less you probably will need or want to have done. Since you didn't tell us what 1911 you plan to campaign (vintage, model, existing work done), that list above covers the main areas which at least should be checked, if not tuned and improved. Nor did you tell us the expected category and level of competition you are setting your sights on. You can easily get started without glitches if your 1911 is reliable and you have reliable, good feeding ammo and magazines. But I have seen many pards start with much less, and unfortunately (for both them and our sport), they get pretty discouraged after their first match. Many soldier on. But some bail, to our mutual loss. You will learn a LOT by attending your first WB match, and even more by shooting your first match. Get out there, before great shooting weather takes a vacation. good luck, GJ

Reliability work is first on my list. So, that would include barrel, throat, link and ramp adjustment as needed to shoot the ammo you will use. If your gun is tuned to shoot hollow point jacketed ammo, it is probably going to shoot lead bullets that we use extractor set to be 100% reliable when feeding and extracting ejector set to be 100% reliable and preferably toss all cases up, to the right, and behind shooter all magazines feed and drop freely from gun, never letting slide return on empty gun recoil spring and mainspring matched to the power factor of ammo you will shoot. (Hint - 15# recoil spring and 19# mainspring work real well in my WB 1911s). This will lighten the effort to rack the slide. As will radiusing the bottom of the firing pin retainer plate. mainspring housing may need polishing of the bore in which the mainspring lives to let you use the lighter mainspring very good magazines. Tripp mags are highly valued in WB because they FEED so well, and the follower design prevents rounds nose-diving into the feed ramp. Cheap (gun show, no-name) mags are the friend of nobody's 1911. Trigger and other fire controls second 3.5 to 4 # trigger, smooth break and no creep mag release lightened with a lighter spring, can easily be actuated to drop mag without shifting your grip slide release 100% reliable and can easily be actuated to drop slide without shifting your grip as mentioned above, as good a set of iron sights as you can use quickly and stay within the rules for your intended category Accuracy third 4" groups at 25 yards will be plenty good enough. General tuning, deburring, polishing to take care of all of these three major concerns. Dehorning and fancy thumb safety Since we don't carry concealed and we NEVER have to put on the thumb safety, worrying about these things is in the weeds Prettiness Since this is not a beauty contest, you can suit yourself and ignore the rest And probably the two MOST important things - reliable feeding ammo and PRACTICE. If you shoot WB, you will probably need to load your own ammo. Both for big cost savings, and much easier availability during shortages (like now). good luck, GJ

If you want rules changes to be considered, of course, see a WB Rules Committee Member, and they may pass along a rule change request if they feel it's got a chance. But with those dotted sights already allowed in Modern, and wide spread use of age-based classes, things don't discriminate much against older Wild Bunchers, as I "see" it. Nothing FIXES eye sight problems better than the best surgical techniques or good eye wear, though. Been there myself (surgeries and glasses) and still enjoy the game as it is. good luck, GJ

Not that I am aware of in Traditional. That line of "same as issued" has been pretty clear since the beginning of SASS Wild Bunch. A polished sight that reveals the silver of the natural metal give a pretty vivid sight picture. good luck, GJ

Wild Bunch shooting never uses buckshot. But, a properly fitted mag tube / spring / follower should be able to handle well made buck shells too. You seem either VERY confused on how the follower works, or you haven't written clearly. Or maybe it's too early for my mind to wrap around your statements that first the follower won't go far enough forward in the mag tube, then your next statement that the follower pushes all the way through. Cannot be both. The skirt of the follower faces forward (toward muzzle end). The mag spring fits into the skirt. Rounds loaded in the tube have their tip against the follower face. So, what limits the capacity of the mag tube is either the follower skirt is too long (jams against the mag end cap out near the muzzle) or the spring won't compress enough because it's very strong coiling, or because it has compressed to a solid stack of coils. Or the mag tube is too tight at some spot. Thus, either taking coils off a strong spring or metal off the skirt length often results in enough room in the 97 mag tube for the 6th round to fit. Briley Shotguns in Houston is a VERY good shop and can usually fix any shotgun. They will be rather pricey, and they don't see many Cowboy shooters in their shop. https://www.brileygunsmithing.com/ 1230 Lumpkin, Houston, Texas 77043 . Steve's Gunz in Lampasas TX is very good and he knows more about shotguns that most pards. Even if shotguns are not a big part of his Cowboy guns specialties. http://www.stevesgunz.com/ Lampasas, TX 76550 512-564-1015 good luck, GJ

Short follower would work fine in your takedown, if the skirt is short enough. BUT - Sounds more like there is a dent or flat in the top end of the mag tube. TAKE A PIC of where the follower stops, from the top end. Pull your follower out and see if you can get a pic down the tube at the spot where the widest diameter of the follower sticks. Post 'em. Common to have the mag tube holding clamp have been over-tightened or torqued and have the thin wall of the mag tube dented just enough to hold up the follower. Either YOU have to use your sensing abilities (eyes, feel) or a shotgun gunsmith needs to use his or perhaps a barrel caliper to find the trouble with your mag tube. My advice would be find another gunsmith who knows what he is doing and won't damage your gun. Tell us your location and you will probably get an answer with contact info of a local gunsmith that folks trust. good luck, GJ

Correct name for this part is either the right or left cartridge stop. About your 6-shot kits. Did the kits include a new magazine follower? I've not installed one of the WBT kits, but some of those kits have a follower that has a shorter "skirt" on them than the original follower was. Going into a solid stop with 1/2 inch left to get the 6 rounds in kinda hints that the problem is with the follower, not with the shorter spring. Try pushing the follower all the way through the mag tube, with the end cap and mag spring totally out. If follower hangs up, look for a dent in the mag tube, which can be raised by a shotgun smith with a "dent raiser" tool. If that seems good, then try 6 rounds in the mag tube and just follower setting on top of those. Maybe get a picture of how far the follower goes up toward the forward end, and if you can get all 6 rounds into the tube that way. You need to FIND the problem area before you can really FIX the problem. good luck, GJ

Drift adjusted rear sight is allowed in Traditional (or Modern). Screw-driven adjustment mechanisms are what makes an Adjustable Sight. Adjustable Sight is not allowed on a Traditional gun, only on a Modern. Rules don't talk about the "dove tail" mounting design of the rear sight because ALL mechanical rear sights on 1911's are secured to the gun with some sort of dovetail. It's not the dovetail that is important, either front or rear. It's the adjustment capability which is important. Drift adjustable sights are "earlier" design (WW I and II) whereas the adjustable sight on 1911s became available in the 1960s as a target sight, and about 1980s as a combat sight. Tell us what model you have/have looked at and someone for sure will be able to pin down it's allowed category, or tell you what would have to be removed/replaced to make it fit a category. good luck, GJ

I don't know what you are referring to with "dove tail rear sight" in your question. Almost all sights on 1911s are attached to the slide with dove tails. A few older guns have front sights attached by staking. Fixed sight blade is what is required for Traditional pistol, not a screw-adjustable modern rear sight. Two commercial replacement fixed sights are called out by the rule book by name - the Harrison Design 03 and the 10-8 National Match. Existing mil spec fixed blade sights as found on WW I and WW II issue guns, the current Colt Government, the "straight blade" Remington R1 (now discontinued, I believe), Springfield MilSpec (but not the new Garrison model) are legal examples. There are several others. The fixed sights which do not fit in the mil spec dovetail and which extend the sight blade back to the very rear edge of the slide are not legal. Contrasting dots or other aiming devices (bars, triangles, glowing widgets) on the sight are not allowed, but can be recolored to match rest of sight. These are in the rules under Traditional Pistol Modifications: Harrison: https://shop.harrisoncustom.com/hd-003-retro-rear-sight 10-8: https://www.10-8performance.com/1911-nm-rear-sight/ Many sight designs are allowed for a Modern category gun. See the rules for a complete definition. good luck, GJ

Shooter has confused the match-1911-gunsmith guidance to not free-drop slide on an empty chamber with "don't drop hammer". Dropping slide when gun is empty has been found by gunsmiths to bounce the trigger and sear contact and even chip the sear or hammer ledge. (Dropping slide on rounds from magazine allows some of the energy to be scrubbed off due to the round being stripped and chambered.) But dropping the hammer by pulling trigger - THAT IS WHAT THE GUN IS DESIGNED TO HAVE DONE TO IT! TOs do need to see that the rules are followed! good luck, GJ

Only about 12 or so of those fellers are looking forward to getting a Minor Safety call for finger on trigger when not safely on the firing range. 😄 Hope our veterans were well remembered on Armed Forces Day yesterday. Thanks for your service, GJ

Marlin guns can be made fairly slick. Winchester 1892 designs - not so much. Why do you think you need a .44 Mag? .44 special or .44-40 are PLENTY of gun for Wild Bunch. If this is also going to be a hunting gun, PERHAPS it's a reason to have one in .44 Mag. I'd run .44 Specials in it for WB though. good luck, GJ

Addition: If you are thinking of the lever plunger (built into the lever's trigger guard), that has a small coil spring which helps hold the lever latched closed. Normally that is very soft and folks don't notice it much. If it gets jammed up or installed wrong, I guess it could provide some stiffness in the very end motion of closing the lever. Those are available as a replacement in some hammer spring kits for a Marlin 1894. good luck, GJ

How are you so sure it's a "stiff locking block"? (There is no part named "lever block") It would be rather rare to have a locking block be stiff and hard to move. Errors in reassembly are a common cause of a Marlin being stiff or even locked up. Most of the spring resistance in a Marlin action is the mainspring (aka hammer spring). Lighter main springs are available from several sources. So cheap, it's not worth trying to lighten the coil mainspring yourself. Check that the locking block really is or is not what is stiff. Does locking block move up and down in it's track when just block, bolt and lever are installed? Check that running the action with gun empty is stiff. If not, but gets stiff running dummy rounds, it's the ammo or the carrier dragging on the loading gate or cartridge on the carrier. Check internal parts for wear and gouges. Something may have not been machined or installed correctly. Longhunter Supply carries springs, firing pins, lots of other parts for Marlins: https://www.longhunt.com/storelh/index.php?route=product/category&path=88_93 good luck, GJ

More than altering a web page to entice clicks. The PRODUCT NAME is T1897! This is a manufacturer's decision.

Really bad product naming and management by a company desperate (?) to make money off of the history of a historic shotgun, IMHO. There's nothing wrong with making a clone of an Ithaca 37 - great gun in it's own rights. Just name it accordingly so novice gun buyers are not deceived. Here's a retailer with ad copy advertising it as a 1897 shotgun! https://palmettostatearmory.com/rock-island-armory-t1897-12-gauge-pump-action-shotgun-black-tpas.html good luck, GJ

Here's an easily found YT video on how to do the bevel and what a nicely finished one looks like. This is legal for Traditional or Modern Wild Bunch guns. A mag well extension added to the frame is not. Per this rule found in the modifications for Traditional or Modern pistols: good luck, GJ

Rule book says for a Traditional gun - Ambidextrous safeties were not part of original 1911 design. Doubt one would be accepted on a Traditional gun. Ambi thumb safeties are explicitly allowed on Modern category guns. You will have ABSOLUTELY no need for or usage of the thumb safety when shooting Wild Bunch. So it doesn't matter on a gun that is devoted to Wild Bunch competition. Gun does have to HAVE a working thumb safety, though, even if it is never used. Figure out if you are going to shoot your 1911 one handed (Traditional) or two (Modern). THAT will decide your main category. Then pick a gun that suits the category, per the rule book. Rules here: the pdf version of WB shooters handbook: https://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/SASS%20WILD%20BUNCH%20Action%20Shooting%20Handbook%202022%20-%20Vers%2016.3%20-%202.2.22.pdf the page on which you find the pdf to download: https://www.sassnet.com/Shooters-Handbook-001A.php good luck, GJ

A great gun for Traditional. Make the sights one color - paint, sharpie, nail polish, etc. A bevel on the bottom edge of the magazine well will help a lot with quick reloads. good luck, GJ

Thanks for the replies, gents! As you can tell if you read the other replies carefully, the old rules and now the new rules both make it necessary to just about have X-ray vision to understand just how many rounds are fired from each and every magazine, especially when the shooter does tactical reloads. Most of the spotters I have had the pleasure of being scored by, and probably half of the ROs I have shot with, don't count rounds-fired-from-each-mag, they count rounds-fired-toward-the-target-array on the string being shot. A carry-over from being used to cowboy RO work, probably. Mag overloading is a very infrequently encountered penalty situation, too. So why count so as to detect the rare situation, when it's so much more likely to need to guide the shooter about "where am I?" on the target array, especially right after they slam in a new magazine. And the few expert ROs who actually CAN keep a running count of both at the same time? My campaign hat is off to them big time! I'll confess that I VERY rarely can count rounds-from-each-mag. I try to keep up 100% with the shooter's progress through the target array. While also trying to watch muzzle, position, and gun handling. good luck, GJ

The rules need to be "easy to apply" regardless of the rounds in the magazine. Either because of what the stage instructions called for, or what the shooter decided he could use/load. Next question we see could very well be that the shooter has an 8 round magazine (legal if only 7 rounds are loaded), but in which he accidentally loaded and used an eighth round. Several ways I can think of this being hard to detect and hard to assess penalties. I'd still strongly suggest we only penalize the "overloaded ammo was used" error (with a P) and stop with any other penalties about ammo that goes from good to illegal. Just consider that the shooter already "paid the penalty for overloading," and let them continue with the 1911 as they see fit. No trying to figure out which and how many individual rounds are legal or not. Is this a shooting contest or a differential equations class? If they hit correct targets, good. If they missed targets or messed up an order, then penalties are incurred like normal based on standard rules. good luck, GJ

Well, I believe the new rules are even harder to apply in some situations than the old rules were. Seems like it's becoming just about impossible to apply these rules for the 1911 pistol string because who really knows at this point, considering multiple mag changes and tactical reloads, which rounds are not to be counted, which are, and which have to be "counted as misses" if and only if the shooter hit targets with them? Let's just realize that the shooter made a Procedural mistake if they overloaded the gun/magazine and then USED one or more rounds that were overloaded. No trying to figure out whether any particular round was illegal, just have to remember THAT the shooter used a round that was overloaded. Easy on long guns, pretty challenging on the 1911. But having to remember any MORE than that on the 1911 - is a "fools errand". And what would you do if the pistol string was an ordered sweep ("each round has it's designated target" - like Nevada sweeps, progressive sweeps, etc)? ALSO give the shooter a P for not shooting in the correct order? Suggest the rules should just penalize the mistake of overloading and using one or more rounds that were overloaded as a single Procedural penalty. Any more penalties on the "illegal" use of individual rounds is just too complicated, and it's a second penalty applied to the single mistake of overloading. And ambiguous wording of what rounds "count as shot" or don't is just asking for problems. These rules have to be applied by folks who are maybe old, maybe hot and tired, and maybe distracted. Let's keep things simple enough to apply correctly without having to do deep dynamic shot-by-shot analysis JMHO, GJ

Bent base plate on the mag(s) would mean they would fail to feed when loaded with 5 rounds, too. Never seen anyone abuse magazines enough to bend the base plate tip downward. Guy must be a weight lifter. ;D good luck, GJ

First, sounds like a new gun. Have you run at least 250 factory-strength rounds through this gun to let all the parts run in together? If not, go do that before troubleshooting further. Many 1911s are now built to be smooth out of box. But AutoOrdnance - I would not bet on it. How did it fail to feed? Different locations of where the top round sticks mean different parts of the gun need to be worked. Nose jamming into feed ramp low on the ramp, round partially comes out of mag. If this is a new 1911, most often the feed ramp needs a little smoothing or cleaning up the angle. Especially with Semi-Wadcutter (SWC like H&G 68) slugs. But a rough or poorly angled feed ramp can hold up any lead bullet-shape load. Round "nose-dives" down into the front of the magazine body. The stamped metal followers on lower price mags often tilt and let the first round nose down into the mag when the slide starts to push it forward. I replace all those followers with a skirted follower that will not nose dive. The one I choose is the Tripp follower and spring, which you can buy separate. Last I bought (4 years ago, though) were about $12 each and made some moderate price magazine bodies (like Chip McCormick) work almost perfectly, like ALL my Tripp magazines do. Case catching during the entry to the chamber - the sharp edge of the bottom of the chamber mouth needs a very small amount of radius. (No, don't take a dremel to it, just a little bit of softening with a round stone). Catching of nose on ramp-to-barrel junction - barrel lip at bottom of mouth sticks out past a poorly fitted feed ramp. Look for a little lead shaving going on at the junction between the frame and barrel. I've never had "too strong" a mag spring in any 1911 magazine I've had, shooting a variety of mags through 3 different 1911s. Including Colt mags. I'd look elsewhere for your feed problems. Check also for rough or too-tight (damaged) magazine lips. Too light a recoil spring has been installed in gun? (I don't go lighter than a 15 # recoil spring). Rough or tight slide or frame rails? Since you had same problem with all magazines you loaded with 7 rounds, it's probably not a magazine glitch. It's MUCH more likely to be ammo (bullet shape, overall cartridge length not handled by your feed ramp) or a gun problem. If you had to hit the slide release to partially unseat the magazine and allow it to drop to get the top round to feed, it may be that the slide release needs to be better fitted where it grabs the slide release notch in the mag bodies. And, make sure the inner side of the slide release is not contacting the top bullet in a fully loaded magazine. good luck, GJ

10-8 and Harrison both make fixed 1911 sights which are Traditional legal by name in the rule book. I run 10-8 NM (National Match) model. 10-8 does not have a big selection of 1911 front sights (last time I looked they only had fiber optic sight blades with a Novak size base). So, I had a smith make a custom dovetailed front sight and dovetail the slide for it. That also is legal by rules. Each 1911 model CAN have some variation to the front sight mounting system. If you are not set to cut dovetails yourself in 1911 slides, it really is a job for a pistol smith, which our Boggus Deal is one. Many folks find that when they try to STAKE on a new taller front sight on a slide originally made with a staking slot, that the weight of the new blade shakes it loose from the staking. Yes, I was one of those folks. The dovetail system is SO much more solid and reliable. good luck, GJ