Branchwater Jack - 88854

Places that sell motorcycle clothing and accessories also have these sleeves that do over the pin in place of the back and they have a lock screw to keep them in place. I do agree with your thoughts, though.

Special thanks to Sassy and Woody for teaching the class at Wartrace today. We really appreciate all their efforts.

Another issue to be aware of...the ogive angle in most of the 200gn RNFP is less than a 230gn round nose and may cause slide issues. Under recoil, the bullets in the magazine may scoot forward a tad and the nose of a bullet in the magazine may come in contact with the slide catch, engaging it with the nose of the bullet. My wife's new pistol had this issue out of the box. A few passes and some polishing to adjust the angle on the grip side of the slide stop to ensure that the bullet would not catch on it cleared it up. Was at a match a couple weeks ago where someone shooting a new gun with 200gn RNFP also had the same issue. So if you have the slide locking back after 3 or 4 shots and no other signs or issues, that is something else to check.

A small, colorful carabiner comes in handy, too. Then, you just clip it to your belt.

Needing some advice.. My lovely wife is just about ready to start shooting some matches and is pretty excited. The only thing she is still unsure on is leather. Any ladies out there with some advice for her?

Slings are now allowed on long guns in SASS CAS. No such allowance has been made in SASS WBAS in the latest rule book that I could see.

Well....since the WB forum doesn't migrate on and archive much, I just thought I would update this thread just in case someone reads this post... As of April 2015...A shooter now earns a 10 second, minor safety penalty for a spent case left in long gun as long as it is not in the chamber. There is, however, no penalty for leaving a spent case in a pistol. Again, spent case in a pistol is a no call. If a shooter leaves a spent case in the chamber of a closed long gun, or leaves a live round in the magazine or carrier of a long gun, they earn two, 10 second, minor safety penalties.

FYSA, For those with the SASS app, when you read the WB Handbook, you are reading the April 2012 version. But then again, nothing to worry about there bacause nothing has changed since then, right? :o JFN, Yes, i do look big picture. It is one of the things I am paid to do when not playing cowboy or doughboy. Let us skip past the fact that there are customers out there who would like additioanl features added to ACES, but are unable because development of it is no longer an ongoing concern. The software is in a mainthenance phase, at best, and at any moment, without warning, could hit end of life. These Mobile devices have a lot more risk to them than your 25 year old mac People drop them They get wet They get dusty Ports break Solder comes loose (problem with some Kindle devices) Batteries hit End of Life and may or not be available to replace, or are just as expensive as new hardware to replace ACES is a good tool If your club can afford it, go for it, I am not saying that you shouldn't I have been to a club that owns no hardware but runs ACES at their matches. Three or four pards all bring their own devices to each match and they make it work It can be done But some clubs are unable to spend money like Congress, especially when there is uncertainty of future viability. Would you spend $2500+ on targets you might not be able to use in two years? All I'm sayin Y'all have fun shooting somewhere this weekend. Matter of fact, I just finished settin up our three matches the Mrs and I are shooting in my ACES on this here phone. :)

Ya. Don't get me wrong, guys. Personally, I have enjoyed using it Use it on my phone and my wife's phone to keep up with our scores As a support model for a club, if you can get the hardware donated or borrow it for match day, I think it is a great setup. If your club usually only runs one or two posses at a match, the cost may be ok, too Especially for monthlies But, from a financial sense, it is hard for some clubs to justify the expense of 12-15 scoring devices and the rest of the hardware that goes with it if the long-term commitment isuncertain. Especially big matches trying to keepcosts down I have a closet full of hardware and software that was awesome when I first got it, but are unusable because of OS and or hardware changes within just a couple years.

Last word went out that we got that it, like the SASS app, ACES is available for download and use. But neither have been touched or updated in a couple of years and there was no plans from the developer, NiftyBytes/Pitt Viper, to continue to develop any new features for it since there was no financial incentive WolfWind Walker was even shopping around trying to find someone with the skills to pick it up and run with it and do more with it. You take a look at the version of the rulebook or club listing in the SASS app lately?

It was a great program. Just wish it was still supported by the developer. From business side, I cannot knowingly request the club outlay that much money for hardware to run a program on that may not work the next time the hardware manufacturer sends out an update. Rather spend the money on new steel.

I can see the confusion in the way that it is written, by an spent case in a 1911 is a no call as well. The 1911 is going to be cleared on the line. If there is a live round in the magazine or loose in the slide when it was discarded, MSV, but can be corrected before firing the next gun to avoid the penalty. If it is the last gun fired, the shooter has all the time necessary to clear it, drop magazine, drop slide, and pull the trigger to drop the hammer off the clock. One of the big differences between cowboy and WB.

Leaving live rounds in magazine or carrier of the long gun in which it was loaded = MSV Spent case = No Call

Yes, thank you all It gets back to 90% of your calls are usually from 10% of the rulebook But when one is from the other 10%, we need to get it right. Happy Jack, just to clarify, you said, "If you DO decide to fire them try NOT to hit a correct type target." But the rule states "Any targets hit using that ammo will be scored as MISSES." Emphasis on "Any target" Is target type a deciding factor when assessing misses in this case, or is it, by literal onterpretation of the rule, any target hit.

JFN, I hear what you are saying, but I tend to want to agree with GJ here. The combination of the overload rule and the illegal ammo rule into one rule created a weird situation where we are ignoring another part of the rules. The rule quoted states that "Any targets hit using that ammo will be scored as MISSES." The targets have already been engaged by one of the previous bullets shot before we hit the overload mark. All the targets have already been scored as hits or misses. If it is true that overloaded bullets that hit a target are scored as misses in addition to what has already been scored, then it must also be true that those overloaded rounds shot into the berm must be scored as misses because a five second penalty must be assessed for "Each missed target. (Shooters handbook, page 19)". Those extra bullets sent down range did not hit a target. Furthermore, it makes no sense to penalize two shooters differently for the same action (shooting off overloaded bullets) solely based on the location of impact of the bullet - all things else being equal. A round that hits the berm when all the targets have been engaged meets the definition of a bullet that missed a target the same way that an illegally acquired bullet that hits a target that has already been engaged meets the definition of hitting a target. In other words.... If an already engaged and out of play target is hittable with overloaded bullets, why it not also missable?

JFN, I had not encountered a shooter doing this before yesterday, and it led to a lot of discussion. A couple follow up questions... If the shooter put the extra rounds into the berm, are they also scored as misses? And, doesn't this also allow for a shooter, who let's say misses ever target with his other rounds, to end up with more misses than targets identified in the stage instructions?

So, shooter is supposed to shoot the pistol. Has a hickup and ends up ejecting 2 rounds during his string. Slaps in another mag and fires those two required rounds. Now, he has one in the chamber and 2 in the mag and another gun to shoot Shooter decides to put those three rounds down range, either into the berm or on a target. Would it be appropriate to call a Procedural for "Engaging the stage (firearms, targets, or maneuvers) in an order other than as required by the stage description" in this case? Shooter fired more rounds than the stage instructions. If the pistol was the last gun fired, what is the recorded time? The last round shot or backing up the tomer to the last shot engaging the target?

I also have to believe that the geographical differences have allowed WB to grow differently in different areas. While I have not traveled way far out west, you can see video and hear folks talk about how different stages and steel placement is out there. Out over here where I am, we do set up some additional SG targets, plate racks, and will shoot the pistol at the rifle targets, but for the most part, we have not pushed back the steel for WB as much as I have seen done in other parts of the country, nor has target size shrunk down. The cowboy game has grown into a speed first type of shoot with bigger and closer targets now being the majority. And it continues to work as a good, winning formula. Just look at the resurgence of EOT the past couple of years! Folks shooting the cowboy game understandably would not want this winning formula for target placement and stage design changed to the prevailing WB formula. And I can understand why. The other issue that I see is that many cowboy shooters have 'retired' from the run and gun of IPSC, IDPA, and the like to the greener pastures of CAS. These shooters wanted to get away from the 'arms race' that many of these disciplines have moved towards. And while a good '73 rifle with action job costs less than $2k, it is still less than a tricked out 1911. They like what they moved to and would hate to let anything in that would effectively put them back into the same situation they previously left. And that gets back to not wanting to shoot the same match with autos when everyone else is shooting wheel guns. A well run 1911 with a stoked shotgun shooting the same stage as a cowboy is probably going to win 9 out of 10 times. Which is why, when we do allow cowboys to shoot at the same match time as our WB match, they are actually shooting different scenarios and are all scored completely separate in two different matches. They is no comparison between the two. Because they are two different games, with different rules, and different match and stage design ideologies. I enjoy shooting both WB and cowboy. They both have their formula that the directors are trying to use to promote each sport. We'll see how each one develops in the future, but I do not see either formula changing enough that they would end up meeting in the middle.

We shoot a mid month match where we shoot Wild Bunch. Cowboys can shoot that day, too. They all shoot in the same bays. However, they shoot different scenarios and are all scored separately. Usually they run on separate posses too This helps bring in more money for the club as a WB only match wouldn't bring it in

I've Seen mags fall apart because of bad welds, bad metal joints, and feed lips so bent out of shape folks threw them out. Never did see folks have issues with the springs.

I forgot to answer this part of the question... I had to give the guy about $19.00 plus shipping and handling. It looked purdy so I got it! I decided on the bars I got because the were vintage sterling. Looked cool! For the right price, you can be a 6-star general or even president! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Woodrow_Wilson-H%26E.jpg/640px-Woodrow_Wilson-H%26E.jpg

Its a fantasy game! I wear a military uniform with rank on it even though I always regret the fact that I did not actually serve. Have at it and have some fun with it!

Tom is spot on. 95% of the TOs wouldn't have a clue if you made a replica trench gun. Additionally, they wouldn't know that you can buy a chineese made replica and shoot that, but not one you made yourself. Nor, would I expect, that they really cared that you created the replica trench gun. Let's go shoot and have some fun!

Winchester 1897 pump in 12 gauge, original or replica—Civilian or Military style. Handbook page 10

There are original takedown model 97 trench guns. For instance: http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=10269448 http://www.icollector.com/U-S-Marked-Winchester-Model-1897-Trench-Configuration-Takedown-Slide-Action-Shotgun-with-Bayonet_i17062063 How are we, as ROs, to determine if a shotgun brought to the line with a heat shield came from the factory that way or not? Consider someone who purchased the shotgun used....They may not even know the heat shield is original equipment or not. Seems like it would fit the description of replica, though.