Flying W Ramrod

13 minutes ago, Frederick Jackson Turner said:

Having written all the stages and submitted them to our Range Safety Committee....I have been offered ONE MORE of the following, to add to any one stage. Have you any preference? Texas Star/Dueling Tree/Plate Rack.

As I said, they are only offering one.  Thoughts?

 

Cheers,

FJT

all of them are grand but you need to figure reset time. The texas star is the most time consuming for reset.

The updated manuals will be out soon, according to the meeting.

3 hours ago, Garrison Joe said:

Just to expand on the better safety concept, the Range Officer holding the timer has training to at least WB RO level, and thus is much more qualified to perform an unloaded gun check than just the average (or worse, totally untrained new shooter) who is supposed to be checking long guns at the unloading table.  Even worse, at times the "unloading table officer" (usually the previous shooter) has wandered off and the shooter has to wait, or holler for another shooter to come to the table and check guns.  (Or, sometimes, they just check themselves and head for the cart).

I understand commitment to tradition, but I doubt a serious review by qualified range safety officials would be real satisfied with how we often do things currently.

good luck, GJ

At least you'd hope so. Not so much in the real world. 

1 minute ago, Jack Spade said:

Just curious if someone could explain the scoring error that was corrected after the match and awards were done. 

The person inputting the scores, input stage 2 scores twice, for one posse.

Happens, just about, everywhere you have humans, being interrupted, inputting scores.

3 hours ago, Silvertip said:

Congratulations, sounds like a fun shoot.

ST

Thanks for not being there, I moved up a place 😄

Missed you two, hope to see you guys soon

Arizona State Wild Bunch is in the books.

Here's where to find the final scores. Look at February Wild Bunch

Thanks all who shot,

Sorry to all who missed it.

2023 Schedule & Match Results | Welcome to Cowtown! (ccsa-az.com)

4 hours ago, Garrison Joe said:

I am all for clearing our long guns on the line.   Minimal movement with uncleared guns.   Minimal disruption to scoring by having to put in "round discovered" penalties on the score pad/sheet.   Everything to gain, nothing to lose but a few seconds of time for brassers to go forward.  It will be one more point that ticks off the sensitive Cowboy shooters if your club runs WB and cowboy in same posse (a really bad idea IMHO).

good luck, GJ

The only "round discovered" penalties are Miss or SDQ (if it's in the chamber). WB does not use the MSV for round on carrier or in magazine penalty

You load the required number of rounds, up to 6, at the loading table. Once you shoot those 6, the remaining rounds (subsequent targets) must come from the body or a staged location.

This does not mean to say you can only load, and shoot, the number of rounds needed for that location, i.e. multiple shooting positions for shotgun. It means load up to 6 and load from the body or staged location, as needed, after the first 6 targets have been engaged.

You are safe for movement: WBSHB Pg 15 "Safe for movement shotgun in hand only
– Action open, round on carrier.
– Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or spent round, action closed."

You are safe for the shotgun to leave your hands, restaged for further use: WBSHB Pg 15 "Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed (restaged for further use)"

Don't forget.

WB RO Class at Cowtown Range, just 20 minutes from Ben Avery Shooting Complex, home of End Of Trail, in Phoenix, AZ.

February 17, 2023

Sign in at 0730

Class at 0800

Instructors: Legendary Lawman, Serenity, Flying R Ramrod and Renegade Roper.

$25.00 for first timers

$10.00 for refreshers

Contact Flying W Ramrod for information at ramrodwayne@gmail.com

The Arizona State Wild Bunch Championships are held February 18-19.

Bring ammo and shoot it. Contact Barbwire at snow.g@att.net

WBSHB Pg 7

Only non-adjustable “military style” simple blade rear and front sights allowed. The 10-8 National Match and the Harrison Design 003 are approved rear sights.

Yep, they do.

Nope, not everyone runs through.

They pull names, at random, at the start of the match and those shooters have their ammo checked.

At Cowboy matches, they chrono only those who sound/look like they're below power factor. Usually because of a challenge by another shooter in their category.

Wanna get away from the hustle and bustle?

Wanna escape the family unit for a bit of relaxation?

Snowbird looking to do something fun for Christmas Eve?

Join us at Cowtown, just 20 minutes from the Ben Avery Shooting Center, for a Christmas Eve Wild Bunch Match.

Registration at 8:00

First round down range at 9:00

5 stages, should be done around noon.

ccsa-az.com for directions to the range.

Come out and get your HO-HO-HO on.

OK, it's on.

WB RO Class

Friday, February 17, 2023

Cowtown Range 10402 W Carefree Hwy, Peoria, AZ 85383 

Sign in 8:30

Class Starts 9:00

Download, read and bring the WB RO Manual.

$25.00 for first timers

$10.00 for refreshers.

As a side note, February 18-19 is the Arizona State Wild Bunch Championship at the Cowtown Range. G

Bring enough ammo to shoot the State match and 10 days later, EOT Wild Bunch. Yeehaw. 20 stages in 10 days. Let's play.

Contact Flying W Ramrod at ramrodwayne@gmail.com to register and for more information.

2 hours ago, denton Dancer said:

My wife Calico Calie would also take the class

You're both signed up. my email is ramrodwayne@gmail.com

Email me for more info, including directions.

Regards

February 17 is doable but it has to start at 0900.

The next two days, the 18th and 19th is the Arizona State Wild Bunch Championships. 

While you're here for the class, shoot the match, at the same range. Winner Winner Chicken Diner 😄

If Legendary Lawman, and Serenity are ok with this, we can call it an EOT Wild Bunch RO Class, as it's just 10 day before EOT, and only 20 minutes from Ben Avery Range.

Looks like at least three wanting the class. Anyothers want to jump on the class wagon?

2 hours ago, C.N. Double said:

Feb 17th could work for me too. I'd prefer it to be in the evening (or as late as possible) on the 17th. Other good options for me would be after the black powder match on Feb 11-12 or any time on Feb 25-26, but I know that's a busy weekend just before EoT.

Thanks for setting this up!

The 18-19 weekend is Arizona State Wild Bunch, the class would have to be around 2:00pm as the class is about 5 hours.

2 hours ago, C.N. Double said:

Feb 17th could work for me too. I'd prefer it to be in the evening (or as late as possible) on the 17th. Other good options for me would be after the black powder match on Feb 11-12 or any time on Feb 25-26, but I know that's a busy weekend just before EoT.

Thanks for setting this up!

That's Fire and Ice at Cowtown weekend, so that's out.

Just putting this out here.

Anyone interested in an WB RO Class, in Phoenix, a week or two before EOT?

Since folk may be taking time off to shoot EOT, both WB and Cowboy, the class could be held during the week, or on a weekend (which are pretty full already).

Please, let me know your thoughts and if you'd attend.

Regards

Flying W Ramrod

WBRO Instructor

50 minutes ago, Legendary Lawman said:

http://cowboy.okcgunclub.org/landrun/

Nope, only Cowboy scores are up.

2 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

Thanks for pointing that out, I somehow missed the "use" part in the SHB.

I stumbled across another line in the SHB. On page 20 it states that there's a 5 second penalty for "each unfired round". While the round was overloaded it is still a round unfired. I guess it is not the intention of the rule and it's ment to be only applicable for rounds supposed to be shot, but the wording is not totally clear.

No sir. The "overloaded" round is non-existent until fired, or ends up under the hammer of a closed, discarded, pistol, then it causes a problem.

Regards

6 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

Based on the information in the original post, the pistol does not necessarily left the shooter's hand between first racking and clearing it. And imho, even if it was restaged at a time it would/should have been caught then if it was loaded (but I am looking forward to the experts).

So, I would call a P: Use of “illegally acquired” ammunition. (i.e., NOT carried to the line/staged by the shooter in an approved manner, or overloaded ammunition), WBSHB p.21

WBSHB p.31: Overloaded Rounds – [...] Pistol: Loading more than 7 rounds in a magazine and/or loading, during a course of fire, more rounds than the stage description requires.

The clearing of the pistol was according procedure: UNLOAD and SHOW CLEAR: This means remove any live rounds and the magazine if one is inserted, WBSHB p.8

You are correct. With the information provided, we don't know if the pistol was the first or last gun used. Assuming the first, or second gun used, it would be an SDQ. if it was the last gun used, and the 8th round not used, it is a no call. There is no penalty for overloading the mag, only for using the overloaded round.

SDQ. WBSHB Page 21 "A cocked, loaded firearm leaving the shooter’s hand."

3 hours ago, Abe E.S. Corpus said:

I don’t see a requirement in the Handbook that the 1911 hammer be at rest at the LT.

The rule for movement with the pistol requires only that the chamber be empty.  The slide can be open or closed.  I don’t see a penalty for a movement with cocked hammer on a pistol.

I looked at the WB RO/MD Handbook.  I don’t think it leads to a different conclusion.  In some places it contradicts the Handbook.  For example, it refers to “loaded” firearms in a way that is inconsistent with the Handbook’s definition of a “loaded” firearm which is a firearm with a live round in the CHAMBER.

I’m not recommending that shooters begin the stage with a cocked hammer on the holstered or staged pistol.  I just want requirements to be clear before we hand out penalties.

Someone asked recently whether it was legal for a shooter who had difficulty charging a 1911 to draw the pistol, thumb back the hammer and then rack the slide.  I said yes, and I believe that is correct, but the way the Handbook is written it may be legal for a shooter to cock the hammer at the LT (assuming the chamber is empty).  If that is not the intended result the Handbook should be revised.

If you look at the WBSHB, page 10, under "Safe for Re-holstering" it says "Slide closed and hammer down on an empty chamber with no magazine. Only after RO inspection at firing line."

Ensuring the Hammer is Down, in this instance, intimates that the Hammer was down upon reaching the stage.

Also, if it's not spelled out in the WBSHB, refer to the CAS SHB. Page 13 "Six-shot revolvers may be loaded at the loading table with a maximum of five rounds and the hammer lowered and resting on the empty chamber."

regards

7 minutes ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

Good call. The ROC is looking for places like this so they can align the rules. Again, good call.

Tried to edit this but can't.

That rule states "Restaging a long gun for further use with the hammer NOT fully down on an empty chamber or fired case and the action closed." Which means, to me, that if you restage a long gun, for further use, and the action is closed, it must be hammer down on empty chamber or expended round.

This does not pertain, nor excludes, the first part of the "Safe to Leave Hands" statement of "NO LIVE round in the chamber, action cycled, and muzzle safely downrange."

So you are correct, the ROC needs to clarify this.