C.N. Double

This month we're mixing some of the old with some of the new -- come on out! Stages are attached -- pistol round count is actually 142, not 135. set-up: 8am Tombstone Livery 919 AZ-82 Tombstone, AZ 85638 OPSA_WB_June2022.pdf

I used a two-part loctite epoxy that has worked well so far. Screws are allowed as long as the total thickness from the baseplate to the screw heads does not exceed the 1/4" limit. Edit: Don't forget to account for the weight of the pad and the screws, if you use them. It shouldn't be an issue. https://wildbunch.sassnet.com/topic/678-weight-of-magazine-with-legal-base-pad/

Yea, but the MDQ would be for scoring purposes only, so I'd still get to shoot even if someone had their finger on the scale -- no big deal, right? Plus, I could always go to the truck and file on the frame a bit before the match, right Les? 🙊 I guess I'd be comfortable if it was within 0.5oz of the limit to allow for variances in scales. All these recent threads about how great Rugers are out of the box have me looking at pistols again, and I keep coming back to this chrome beast from Les Baer. @Frederick Jackson Turner -- I just listened to the 2/12 episode. Very cool conversation, but wouldn't the ATF prefer we don't attempt to create makeshift suppressors from pillows? Does the pillow need to be engraved after I submit a form 1? Naw, seriously great episode, and very cool conversation with Les.

I'm happy to help if I can, but that's not quite what I said. Misty has been extremely helpful and responsive during the transition, and I'll assist where permitted.

I'm sure you'll get an official ruling soon, but I believe the wide spur would be allowed. Traditional pistols don't have to be unmodified -- they just have to meet all the requirements. I think your assumption is correct in that the "standard spur" requirement is intended to prohibit lightweight competition type hammers, not wide spur hammers.

Great match! I appreciated having more than one good choice for almost every stage. Often, if given a choice, I find there is an obvious best choice for my gameriness -- not true at the AZ State match. None of the stages were intimidating, but they were all challenging and fun. It's about a 3-hour commute up to Cowtown for me, but every time I shoot there, I have such a good time, and I wish I could go more often. Thanks again to Barbwire and Zona and the rest of the crew who contributed to killer match.

This sounds like an awesome side match lineup. Thanks!

Thanks, I was wondering the same thing. That means the Premier II heavyweight should be just under 39oz. With a 3oz mag (max), that should be just about perfect... It might be a little bit tight. The only downside is I'd have want to shoot it with two hands 8)

Edit: Whoops, I should have found a right hand holding a 1911. I think it makes it even better, though.

Can't wait to return. CCSA puts on a terrific match.

Ha! I know nothing about it, so I'm taking this opportunity to slowly and carefully learn. I appreciate all the info I can get. Yep, after looking more into it, I think this could be a factor. I'm also going to investigate the action slide spring. I'll also check the action slide lock springs -- hopefully the answer is in one of these places.

JFN, you're my hero. Without hesitation or payment, you offered a solution and mailed me a part to try, and it worked. I hope you like cookies -- they'll be headed your way soon (along with full compensation for the part). I received the 2 3/4" flagged carrier today, and although I wasn't encouraged by the discussion here, I got to work right away to install it. Within a few minutes, I had completed my first-ever field strip and trigger group removal of this would-be pesky duck gun. I examined the mechanics and geometry for a few minutes, taking careful note of fasteners and springs, before I removed the existing carrier. At first, I was surprised to learn the pivot screw for the carrier had left-hand threads, but I soon understood this design as the pivot pin is loaded when the carrier pivots up to feed the shells, which could over time loosen a right-hand threaded screw. Actually, as I was disassembling it, I noted this screw/pin was already a bit loose, so perhaps it would be a good candidate for a drop of blue loctite upon re-assembly. This gun is pretty grimy on the inside, so I did a quick wipe down of the easy-to-reach internals. With the new carrier installed, I took a few minutes to understand my other two problems. First, the action release button (override?) was difficult to press. The hook that engages the edge of the hammer was all buggered up, so I took a few passes with some emery cloth to smooth it up. It's better, but I think someone has removed too much metal from the tip of this hook, which makes it too short to reliably and smoothly engage the cam face on the hammer to release the action. I'll likely try to replace it in the future, but at least it's functional now. The final issue is the amount of forward pressure required on the forend to release the action after the hammer falls. I think I've found the answer to exist in the forend itself. I think I'll need to fully disassemble the mag tube and forend to get to the springs that need to be eased for maximum gamerfication. I finished wiping things down and reassembled her. It was the moment of truth. After successfully running 30+ dummy shells through the action, at match speed, with the ejection port facing up/down/left/right, without a single hiccup, I'm going to call the feeding issue provisionally fixed. Thanks again for all the comments here. I hope to further chronicle my journey inside the M12 as I (hopefully) continue improving this shotgun and making it match-ready.

Well, bummer. It's too bad the barrel is cut because it could make a great trap gun otherwise. All the same, I'll try to fool around with it. JFN, I'll send you a PM -- I'm interested in trying the shorter carrier.

I acquired a nice late model M12 (15951XX) with 3" chamber. The cut barrel is marked For Super Speed and Super-X 3". It has a flagged carrier, but it does appear to be the 3" version of the carrier (no "lip" at the rear). I'm having the same common feeding issue where a 2 3/4" shell does not always chamber and instead hits the right edge of the breech. I'm not interested in "tilting" it on every cycle to make sure it feeds correctly. Is this something I can fix simply by installing a 2 3/4" flagged carrier? FWIW, another 2 3/4" M12 I have does not have a flagged carrier, and it feeds just fine. It seems carriers are available for $80-100 (oof). The action release is also very stiff on this shotgun, and I'd like to lighten it up a bit. The action release button is also difficult to press unless I pull hard forward on the slide. I'm guessing this will ease up too if I lighten the action release spring. Is this simply a matter of bending the action release spring? Again, the other M12 I have releases on hammer fall with almost zero forward pressure on the slide, and I'd like this new one to be similar. Thanks in advance.

Is the call based on the intent of the shooter? For example... Stage calls for 5 rounds from a long gun -- shooter loads 5, shoots 4, discards open long gun with 5th round on carrier accidentally -- 1 Miss (unfired round, action cycled -- page 11) shooter loads 6, shoots 5, discards open long gun with 6th round on carrier accidentally -- NO CALL (overloaded rounds not used, action cycled -- page 11) shooter loads 5, shoots 3, discards open long gun with 4th round on carrier purposefully (with intent to pick up and shoot again later), picks up later, shoots 2 more, discards open and empty -- STAGE DQ (page 22) Is that correct? If so, why doesn't the rule on page 11 ("NO LIVE round in the chamber, action cycled, and muzzle safely downrange.") apply to the last scenario before the SDQ? Poor stage design either way :-X

Yep, it's a great tool to have if you need it. We encountered another situation at the MO state match where the stage called for a California Sweep (reverse Badger) on 7 targets. These were all single-taps, but the tac reload was good for many of us because our 2nd mag was 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4 instead of 2,3,4,1,2,3,4. It also helped because with the tac, you don't have to come back to 1 with your 7th shot of the first mag before reloading. This is minor preference, but I always try to use tac reloads when it won't hinder me because they are a teeny bit faster (for me). California Sweep is 1 / 1,2 / 1,2,3 / 1,2,3,4 / 1,2,3,4,5 / 1,2,3,4,5,6 / 1,2,3,4,5,6,7

Thanks, Happy Jack. I appreciate the historical perspective, and the recent discussion made me wonder. I'm not (always) trying to be the millennial asking, "but whyyyy?" The more I thought about it and looked at loading data, the more some type of minimum made sense for safety purposes. I like the game the way it is :)

What is the intent of the minimum bullet weight rule? I know many of our rules are designed to preserve the original nature of the guns and ammo -- is the same true for the 180gn bullet minimum? Is it to allow a safer acceptable overlap to meet both power factor and max velocity limits? Something else?

Another nod to the Texican Rangers for an outstanding match! It was apparent this team put a lot of work and effort into this match, and they really knocked it out of the park. They had great prizes, food, and side matches, and they shoot on a beautiful range. The match itself was challenging and fun, with many opportunities to "do it your own" way.

The rules plainly state that any Winchester 1897 civilian OR military model is allowed. Wouldn't a trench gun fall under this allowance? Edit: Sorry, I misinterpreted the last message. However... The rules also plainly state that Model 12s are allowed. The rules don't say that only specific types of Model 12s are allowed or that specific types are not allowed. If I add a heat shield, bayonet lug, and sling swivel to a riot gun, aren't I faithfully reproducing the trench gun? Why does it matter how it got that way?

Bump to encourage more of our members to vote. Please let us know what you'd prefer.

What a great match! Thanks to all involved. The food, shooting, company, and entertainment were all terrific, and I even enjoyed my encounter with the little green men. The range is a work of art, and you can really see the love that goes into it. This was really a top-shelf match.

Haha, wow... this looks awesome.