New Model 12 -- same old questions

[C.N. Double]

I acquired a nice late model M12 (15951XX) with 3" chamber. The cut barrel is marked For Super Speed and Super-X 3". It has a flagged carrier, but it does appear to be the 3" version of the carrier (no "lip" at the rear). I'm having the same common feeding issue where a 2 3/4" shell does not always chamber and instead hits the right edge of the breech. I'm not interested in "tilting" it on every cycle to make sure it feeds correctly.

 

Is this something I can fix simply by installing a 2 3/4" flagged carrier? FWIW, another 2 3/4" M12 I have does not have a flagged carrier, and it feeds just fine. It seems carriers are available for $80-100 (oof).

 

The action release is also very stiff on this shotgun, and I'd like to lighten it up a bit. The action release button is also difficult to press unless I pull hard forward on the slide. I'm guessing this will ease up too if I lighten the action release spring. Is this simply a matter of bending the action release spring? Again, the other M12 I have releases on hammer fall with almost zero forward pressure on the slide, and I'd like this new one to be similar.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

[Garrison Joe]

Generally those 3" chambered duck gun Model 12s are avoided like the plague in WB.  Sorry, but it's been true for a long time.  Lots of parts swapping tried, and as far as I ever heard, none really improved the feeding reliability or the speed.

 

But if someone has cracked the nut on this problem, I'd like to hear about it too.  :)

 

good luck, GJ

[J. Frank Norfleet]

I had one and it was a pain so I traded it off.  Pretty sure I traded out the carriers trying to get it to work. Goatneck had one that ran. I asked him what he did to it, he said nothing, it just worked. He also said most don't run.

I think nearly every WB shooter has gotten a smokin' deal on a M12 only to wind up with an education on duck guns.

I might have a short carrier with a flag. I'll check tomorrow. Let me know.

JFN

[Baltimoreed11754]

Isn’t the flagged carrier supposed to aid in feeding or is that negated with the op’s gun being a 3 inch goose gun?

[C.N. Double]

Well, bummer. It's too bad the barrel is cut because it could make a great trap gun otherwise. All the same, I'll try to fool around with it. JFN, I'll send you a PM -- I'm interested in trying the shorter carrier.

[J. Frank Norfleet]

Just run it slow. :D :D :D

[Garrison Joe]

And make sure to keep it canted over to the left.

 

good luck, GJ

[Kid Rich]

Just run it slow. :D :D :D

CN don't got slow in his vocabulary.

kR

[DUSTY BODDAMS]

CND, ok, it’s not a total loss! If it runs 3” make it into a truck gun or home defense.

[C.N. Double]

JFN, you're my hero. Without hesitation or payment, you offered a solution and mailed me a part to try, and it worked. I hope you like cookies -- they'll be headed your way soon (along with full compensation for the part).

 

I received the 2 3/4" flagged carrier today, and although I wasn't encouraged by the discussion here, I got to work right away to install it. Within a few minutes, I had completed my first-ever field strip and trigger group removal of this would-be pesky duck gun.

 

I examined the mechanics and geometry for a few minutes, taking careful note of fasteners and springs, before I removed the existing carrier. At first, I was surprised to learn the pivot screw for the carrier had left-hand threads, but I soon understood this design as the pivot pin is loaded when the carrier pivots up to feed the shells, which could over time loosen a right-hand threaded screw. Actually, as I was disassembling it, I noted this screw/pin was already a bit loose, so perhaps it would be a good candidate for a drop of blue loctite upon re-assembly.

 

This gun is pretty grimy on the  inside, so I did a quick wipe down of the easy-to-reach internals. With the new carrier installed, I took a few minutes to understand my other two problems.

 

First, the action release button (override?) was difficult to press. The hook that engages the edge of the hammer was all buggered up, so I took a few passes with some emery cloth to smooth it up. It's better, but I think someone has removed too much metal from the tip of this hook, which makes it too short to reliably and smoothly engage the cam face on the hammer to release the action. I'll likely try to replace it in the future, but at least it's functional now.

 

The final issue is the amount of forward pressure required on the forend to release the action after the hammer falls. I think I've found the answer to exist in the forend itself. I think I'll need to fully disassemble the mag tube and forend to get to the springs that need to be eased for maximum gamerfication.

 

I finished wiping things down and reassembled her. It was the moment of truth.

 

After successfully running 30+ dummy shells through the action, at match speed, with the ejection port facing up/down/left/right, without a single hiccup, I'm going to call the feeding issue provisionally fixed.

 

Thanks again for all the comments here. I hope to further chronicle my journey inside the M12 as I (hopefully) continue improving this shotgun and making it match-ready.

[J. Frank Norfleet]

Glad it worked.

Looking forward to the cookies.

Sorry I didn't warn you about the left hand threads. I thought about it and decided it would be condescending to tell you what I thought you already knew.

Several years ago I found that carriers with a stop solved a lot of problems for my M12s.

JFN

[boonieyoung110849]

howdy, to add my 2 cents. i had a m12 takedown that had a non matching barrel that had issues with the release button as well as requiring a hard forward push on the slide to make it operate. sounds kind of like the same problem you're having. anyways to make a long story short, my gunsmith looked at it and found the release springs had gotten bent. he felt that this was due to the slide rod being too long. it turns out that slide rod needs to be fitted to the receiver. he replaced the release springs, shortened the slide rod and this gun now runs like lightening.

[C.N. Double]

it would be condescending to tell you what I thought you already knew.

 

Ha! I know nothing about it, so I'm taking this opportunity to slowly and carefully learn. I appreciate all the info I can get.

 

due to the slide rod being too long.

 

Yep, after looking more into it, I think this could be a factor. I'm also going to investigate the action slide spring. I'll also check the action slide lock springs -- hopefully the answer is in one of these places.