Loading 8 rounds in 1911 mags

[Bootless Bob]

The sticky at the top says you can load 7 in the magazine but the 2019 handbook makes no mention of it that I can find.  So are we now free to load and shoot 8 round mags?

[DUSTY BODDAMS]

You can load and shoot 8 round mags with a flat bottom but you can only put 7 cartridges in them. ;D

[Boggus Deal]

Like with the rifle and shotgun, there is no penalty for overloading magazines. The penalties come with the use of the extra ammo or by leaving the ammo in the gun.

[Bootless Bob]

You can load and shoot 8 round mags with a flat bottom but you can only put 7 cartridges in them. ;D

 

That was my understanding but where in the SHB does it state that?  I searched the document and found nothing. 

[Flash]

You can load and shoot 8 round mags with a flat bottom but you can only put 7 cartridges in them. ;D

 

That was my understanding but where in the SHB does it state that?  I searched the document and found nothing.

It is in the pistol requirements starting on page 4.

[Bootless Bob]

You can load and shoot 8 round mags with a flat bottom but you can only put 7 cartridges in them. ;D

 

That was my understanding but where in the SHB does it state that?  I searched the document and found nothing.

It is in the pistol requirements starting on page 4.

 

I don't think there's a reference to loading 7 rounds any more in the 2019 rule book.  The 2018 handbook said on page 7 "Magazines shall be loaded with up to seven rounds only. A shooter may load LESS

than seven rounds in a magazine.", that is pretty clear.  In the 2019 handbook there is no mention of loading magazines. 

[Abe E.S. Corpus]

It is my understanding that as a result of the elimination of the rule that set a maximum number of rounds in a magazine that a shooter may load eight and use eight, even though pistol strings are patterned on multiples of seven. 

 

Assume the stage instructions call for a 14 round double tap sweep.  Under the 2018 rule, the shooter was limited to 7 rounds in a magazine.  Choices were to shoot seven, reload from slide lock and shoot seven, interrupting the double tap between rounds 7 and 8, or shoot six, perform a tactical reload and shoot eight.

 

I think the 2019 rules provide a third option:  load first magazine with eight rounds, shoot to slide lock, reload and shoot six.

 

Do I want to keep track of magazines loaded with different numbers of rounds?  Maybe not, but I think this would be legal under the 2019 SHB.

[Legendary Lawman]

The WB Rules Committee has had a goal of trying to simplify the rules and particularly to reduce unnecessary penalties.  In 2019 the penalty for overloading a 1911 magazine was eliminated.  As Boggus Deal also stated, the shooter only earns a penalty if they shoot more than 7 rounds from a magazine.  Shooting an eighth round from the magazine would be “use of illegally acquired ammunition” for the eighth shot.

 

When the committee eliminated the overloading penalty, it was not realized that it needed to be replaced by a “rule” stating that you could only load 7 rounds in the magazine.  That sounds complicated in that there is a “rule” but no penalty for overloading (unless you use the overloaded round).  We already have that intent for the rifle.  However, the rifle is different because there is only one magazine.  Obviously, the rule book needs to have a clarification which will be posted by Happy Jack after review by the WB Rules Committee.

 

In the meantime, WB shoots should be governed by the posted rule that 1911 magazines will have 7 rounds.  Any overloaded round will not be a penalty unless it is used by the shooter.

 

[Abe E.S. Corpus]

I asked this question in December but I must not have phrased it clearly.

 

I am not advocating for the right to load eight rounds but if it is the intent of the Committee that an eighth round cannot be used without penalty a revision or clarification is needed.

[Legendary Lawman]

Abe

Totally agree with you.  Stay tuned :)

 

[Boggus Deal]

We are continually struggling to make the handbooks easier to understand and more precise!

[Bootless Bob]

Thank you for the clarification Legendary Lawman.  It was a very new shooter to our club who was diligently reading the rule book because she wanted to write a WB stage for the end of our CAS match (kind of a little side match).  She wanted to tell everyone to load 8 rounds, then I said we can't do that, then she showed me the rule book, then I scratched my head and decided to get some clarification  ???.  :D

[Garrison Joe]

wanted to tell everyone to load 8 rounds

 

Some WB troopers will have magazines that only hold 7 rounds.  Even if the rules were clear here, don't REQUIRE loading 8 in mags.  Don't force shooters to either buy different mags, or have to miss a shooting event they wanted to do.

 

At the very least, let them do a two-mag loadout that gives them 8 shots.  Five and three, or seven and one. 

 

Good luck, GJ

[Happy Jack]

I agree completely with the posts by Legendary Lawman and Boggus Deal on this matter.  I do not however see a need to write another "rule".  It is perfectly legal to overload your magazine in any firearm in WBAS. We don't care if you do so. HOWEVER, if you leave that live round in the chamber or fire it there are penalties already clearly spelled out.

 

WBAS shooters Handbook  January 2019  version 12.1

 

Page 20:  SDQ  A live round left in the chamber of a long gun

Page 20:  SDQ A cocked pistol with a live round in the chamber leaving the shooters hand.

 

Page 26    Procedural    .......overloaded rounds that are fired will be a procedural. Any targets hit with that ammo will be          scored as misses. No adjustments will be made to the raw stage time.

 

[Boomstick Bruce]

sooo say i load 8 in one of my kimber mags, fire the first 3, 4th round FTF, so i clear it and fire the remaining 4 rounds and still be legal???

[Garrison Joe]

8 in one of my kimber mags, fire the first 3, 4th round FTF, so i clear it and fire the remaining 4 rounds

 

Perfectly fine!

 

The only difficulty with that is to predict is when you are going to have a FTF.  ;D    Let's say you have a failure one time every 10 mags.  Nine times you will have to clear a live round from chamber somehow, maybe costing you 2 seconds.  One time it saves you a second because you don't have to load a "Barney" magazine with one round.  Now you have cost yourself 17 seconds by loading every mag with 8.

 

Your time is MUCH better spent making your gun and ammo perform perfectly with no failures.  The value of that is PRICELESS!

 

Good luck, GJ

[Legendary Lawman]

The 8th round in the magazine (the round in the bottom of the magazine) is an overloaded round and therefore illegal ammunition.  If you use it, you are using illegal ammunition and penalties apply. 

LL

[Boggus Deal]

8 in one of my kimber mags, fire the first 3, 4th round FTF, so i clear it and fire the remaining 4 rounds

 

Perfectly fine!

 

The only difficulty with that is to predict is when you are going to have a FTF.  ;D    Let's say you have a failure one time every 10 mags.  Nine times you will have to clear a live round from chamber somehow, maybe costing you 2 seconds.  One time it saves you a second because you don't have to load a "Barney" magazine with one round.  Now you have cost yourself 17 seconds by loading every mag with 8.

 

Your time is MUCH better spent making your gun and ammo perform perfectly with no failures.  The value of that is PRICELESS!

 

Good luck, GJ

 

That would be perfectly fine to earn you a miss and a “P”. That eighth round would be illegally acquired ammo.

 

[Garrison Joe]

How is the ammo illegally acquired?  Carried properly in a magazine.    It's not illegal to load eight rounds in a magazine now.

 

As Boggus Deal also stated, the shooter only earns a penalty if they shoot more than 7 rounds from a magazine. 

 

Shooter would only have shot 7 rounds that were in the magazine.

There must be something else we need to know about why anyone would ever want to load 8 rounds in a magazine.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Boggus Deal]

How is the ammo illegally acquired?  Carried properly in a magazine.    It's not illegal to load eight rounds in a magazine now.

 

As Boggus Deal also stated, the shooter only earns a penalty if they shoot more than 7 rounds from a magazine. 

 

Shooter would only have shot 7 rounds that were in the magazine.

There must be something else we need to know about why anyone would ever want to load 8 rounds in a magazine.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Very simple, Garrison Joe. The Wild Bunch Rules Committee has said so. If a stage calls for 4 shotgun rounds, you load 6, jack a live one out and shoot the next round loaded, it’s illegally acquired ammo.

 

People would only ever want to load eight in a magazine because others keep perniciously,  ignorantly or arrogantly telling them it’s perfectly fine to do so.

Now, GJ, the question has been asked and answered.

[Happy Jack]

Boggus is right. FIRING that overloaded round is ILLEGAL.  Simple as that.

[Abe E.S. Corpus]

sooo say i load 8 in one of my kimber mags, fire the first 3, 4th round FTF, so i clear it and fire the remaining 4 rounds and still be legal???

 

No.  According to the interpretation of the rule set forth in this thread, the eighth round in the magazine is “illegally acquired”.  If you use it you earn a penalty.