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What would YOU suggest?


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Maybe 7 rounds in the mag's & 5 shotgun in lieu of 6 as the norm.  Just saying.  :)    We already had our Prairie Fire here in Cochise County, Arizona, 48,000 acres worth, don't need anymore.  Respectfully

 

Bingo, 7 and 5 should have been the norms from the get go, how we got saddled with 5 and 6 is still the great mystery...

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Nawlins Kid, our SASS club shoots the second Saturday of the month.  Usually, I will hold a three stage WB match after the regular shoot.  And usually its the same folks, BUT, at least the interest is still there.

 

    I doubt that this will ever happen, but one thing "might" be that they can't shoot .38 cal.    I try to ask folks what keeps them from shooting WB, and that is one thing I hear.  Also, the power factor.  I know, I know, it's no big deal, but it seem like it's just another "rule" that they have to abide by. 

Also, I think the fact they some of them "tried" WB earlier on and had a bad experience.  They bought a cheap 1911, cheap mags, and cheap ammo and had severe gun problems.  Those are the ones that really need some coaching, in a nice way. 

  It just seems to me that our WB sport has become stagnant.  I wish be could get more support all around.  Example:  You see a lot of WB threads on the SASS cowboy forum.  Why not have a sub forum (if that's what it's called) link like the saloon, classified and SASS team and mounted shooting links.    People say, "Well, it's NOT Cowboy"    When you think about it, it's more period correct than B Western.  And also don't forget, WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.  WHY NOT SUPORT EACH OTHERS SHOOTING SPORTS? 

 

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One thought is getting more clubs to agree to monthly matches and having it as a real WB match. It's difficult to get folks to fork over money for equipment etc. and only have a 5th  Saturday match or twice yearly etc. It could be a simple thing to drag in a set of WB distance rifle targets and use the cowboy rifle targets as WB pistol and use the same shotgun targets. Let the Cowboys shoot the stage and then let the WB loose. With five or more let them posse together and have a match! There are shooters who will WB that are not shooting cowboy now. Getting across to the clubs that this will draw shooters they would not ordinarily get means additional free income just for setting up a few more targets that are already laying around but cowboy shooters aren't using. As far as power factors, 38 rifles and everything else that is used as an excuse is just that. At our home club we have an open class allowing ANY 1911 any pump shotgun and any sass legal main match rifle.........very very rarely used. Back 40,if your having monthly matches give them an open class shoot the 38 rifles,tell all to not worry about power factors at your local monthly shoot. A preacher told me you got to get them to the church before you can baptize them. I think he had a point.  Dusty Boddams
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One thought is getting more clubs to agree to monthly matches and having it as a real WB match. It's difficult to get folks to fork over money for equipment etc. and only have a 5th  Saturday match or twice yearly etc. It could be a simple thing to drag in a set of WB distance rifle targets and use the cowboy rifle targets as WB pistol and use the same shotgun targets. Let the Cowboys shoot the stage and then let the WB loose. With five or more let them posse together and have a match! There are shooters who will WB that are not shooting cowboy now. Getting across to the clubs that this will draw shooters they would not ordinarily get means additional free income just for setting up a few more targets that are already laying around but cowboy shooters aren't using. As far as power factors, 38 rifles and everything else that is used as an excuse is just that. At our home club we have an open class allowing ANY 1911 any pump shotgun and any sass legal main match rifle.........very very rarely used. Back 40,if your having monthly matches give them an open class shoot the 38 rifles,tell all to not worry about power factors at your local monthly shoot. A preacher told me you got to get them to the church before you can baptize them. I think he had a point.  Dusty Boddams

 

 

+1

We shoot the fourth Sunday of the month and allow shooters to shoot WB on the cowboy stages. It has stir interest in WB and also having folks join SASS. There is nothing wrong having a separate class for 38 cal rifles, we call it Rough Rider. That is a term we use when we teach WB RO and now there are a few clubs using it to try entice folks to come try it. As DB stated you got to get them to come first and then convert them into WB shooters.

 

This year at the The Nor-easter Regional we are putting on a WB mini match and it will have a Rough Rider class. It is a open class to shoot either Traditional or Modern with a legal 1911 and SG and a legal SASS 38 cal rifle. There will be only one class for men shooters and women shooters.

 

Nawlins

 

Nawlins

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I know buying more equipment for me put it off.  I also know the caliber question has been hashed over.  Local club allows most anything as long as SASS legal round.  Shooting the Thompson (semi) made it good for me while I get the scratch for 40+ lever.  Yes could use the 38.

 

7+5 is fine but not sure drag more people in.  Personally I think loosening up to other firearms might help but that is just me.  Love to see lugers and broomhandles and 1917 revolvers.  And yes other than a Sansei broomhandle and 1917 they are sub 45s. 

 

I agree we need to support each other. 

 

I did like the idea of a sub forum on the main SASS wire.  Might get a few more folks talking and interested.

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The local SASS club needs to have regular monthly matches. Having a core group of regular, enthusiasts Wildbunch shooters that go out their way to sell this activity to other shooters is very important.  It needs to be fun and important for others observing the Wildbunch game to see the participants having fun will do a lot to create interest...having a group of extremely serious shooters that take things way to serious may not be to inviting.

 

Angry Ned

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If we're looking to grow interest is WB I think we need to find away to draw shooters from outside of Cowboy. I have some thoughts and they all go against the mind set of what WB was intended to be.

 

1. Change from 5 to 7 round magazines. We'll never go locked and cocked, but we can increase the rounds closer to other sports were the 1911 is shot.

 

2. Add one category, "The Pistolero". Pistol and shotgun only. None of our targets are out of pistol range, besides WB is suppose to be challenging. Most shooters of IDPA or USPSA have a 1911 and shotguns are more or less reasonable compared to a match rifle. Rifle round count would need to be adjusted appropriately.

 

3. Consider smaller frame 1911's (Springfield EMP) chambered for 9mm, after all the 9mm has been around since 1902. This may open it up to people with smaller hands that have avoided WB because of the 1911. Yep this might mean another category (Wild Bunch Lite?) and shouldn't be an issue with knock downs.

 

4. Drop the power factor requirement, make it clear that the targets must go down, shooter lives with the results.

 

I'm sure there's more, but that's all for now.

 

Tully

 

 

 

 

 

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Good points TM. 

Locked and cocked? 

Let's see:

  I shoot USPSA and we start locked and cocked.

I shoot IDPA and we start locked and cocked

I shoot 3 gun and we start locked and cocked

I shoot Action pistol and we start locked and cocked

I shoot Steel Challenge and we start locked and cocked

HELP ME UNDERSTAND

and besides, more women might shoot if we would start locked and cocked.

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I know buying more equipment for me put it off.  I also know the caliber question has been hashed over.  Local club allows most anything as long as SASS legal round.  Shooting the Thompson (semi) made it good for me while I get the scratch for 40+ lever.  Yes could use the 38.

 

7+5 is fine but not sure drag more people in.  Personally I think loosening up to other firearms might help but that is just me.  Love to see lugers and broomhandles and 1917 revolvers.  And yes other than a Sansei broomhandle and 1917 they are sub 45s. 

 

I agree we need to support each other. 

 

I did like the idea of a sub forum on the main SASS wire.  Might get a few more folks talking and interested.

 

Heck, I thought buying more equipment was part of the fun! :)

 

Lots of good ideas here.  Personally,  I just need more TIME!

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Good points TM. 

Locked and cocked? 

Let's see:

  I shoot USPSA and we start locked and cocked.

I shoot IDPA and we start locked and cocked

I shoot 3 gun and we start locked and cocked

I shoot Action pistol and we start locked and cocked

I shoot Steel Challenge and we start locked and cocked

HELP ME UNDERSTAND

and besides, more women might shoot if we would start locked and cocked.

Back 40,

 

Just being clear,  I wasn't recommending locked and cocked.

 

Tully

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What would YOU suggest to get more folks interested in shooting Wild Bunch?

PLEASE DO NOT START A PRAIRIE FIRE!!!

 

Great question, and I motion that we make efforts to address it by understanding what drives or doesn't drive the cowboy shooters into WBAS. WBAS is not offering enough Value.

 

Every decision we make is guided by Value.

 

The Benefit minus the Cost is the Value.

 

More thoughts later after a visit to the gunsmith to remove the slide aperture screw on the 03A3 that I broke attempting to swap to a smaller aperture. 

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What would YOU suggest to get more folks interested in shooting Wild Bunch?

PLEASE DO NOT START A PRAIRIE FIRE!!!

 

Great question, and I motion that we make efforts to address it by understanding what drives or doesn't drive the cowboy shooters into WBAS. WBAS is not offering enough Value.

 

Every decision we make is guided by Value.

 

The Benefit minus the Cost is the Value.

 

More thoughts later after a visit to the gunsmith to remove the slide aperture screw on the 03A3 that I broke attempting to swap to a smaller aperture.

 

I sooooooo agree with you GS

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think we just need to have regular matches and work harder to promote the sport.  I think the rules are fine and shouldn't be easily changed without compelling evidence that a rule change would have a significant change in participation without overly diluting the game.

 

I've heard the complaint about not loading seven in the magazine, but I seriously doubt that changing that would result in a significant increase in participants.  Same thing with the power factor, present legal loads are not what I would call stout and I would hate to see the race to the bottom that we've seen in CAS loads over the years.

 

Most all WBAS shooters come from CAS and we often use target arrays set up for cowboy action, with stages written by people who write CAS stages.  Five in a mag works well.  Non-WBAS sports utilizing the 1911 usually permit tactical reloads as well-do we want to go there?  One of the interesting things about CAS and, to a lessor degree, WBAS, is that for many shooters, this is their first shooting sport and they are not really "gun people."  I would bet we would see a lot more penalties, both procedural and safety, if we went to seven rounds.

 

We had a WB side match at the Ohio State match two weeks ago and had two full posses and everyone had a blast.  Another shooter and I were even talking about how it is a bit more challenging to shoot a big bore rifle than a .38 and how we liked that.  I suspect that there are a lot of big bore rifles sitting around that could be bought since a lot of shooters started with .45's and later went to the more competitive .38.  In any event, assembling the equipment for WBAS is a lot cheaper than say, Classic Cowboy.

 

WB isn't for everyone but I think a lot of shooters would like it if they tried it.  I personally would prefer a smaller match with like minded shooters, than a larger watered down "WB Lite" shooting "whatever," but that's just me.

 

Back 40, I had really hoped to make the Illinois state match at Sparta, but a local club was having a WB match that same weekend and I wanted to support the local club. Sorry, I missed it.

 

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I would take the rifle completely out and focus on the 1911 and shotgun, then the mags could be loaded to capacity. I am not seeing any growth in Wild Bunch in our area, it is stagnant at best, if something isn't working, time to try something different.
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Hi 40!

 

If I were "calling the shots" (pun intended) and wanted to grow WBAS, I would have a category where a semi-auto pistol was allowed at SASS matches.  :o Basically, it would be SASS with a semi-auto pistol. You could be flexible about the rifle caliber too. (Don't tell HJ that I wrote this. ;) )

 

We have a dedicated WBAS club at my home venue. There are several WBAS shooters who never shoot SASS and one who sold his SASS guns and only shoots WBAS, IDPA...

 

If this category brought in sufficient new shooters, maybe some day, you could have a dedicated by-the-rules WBAS club.

 

Regards,

 

AM

 

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Hi 40!

 

If I were "calling the shots" (pun intended) and wanted to grow WBAS, I would have a category where a semi-auto pistol was allowed at SASS matches.  :o Basically, it would be SASS with a semi-auto pistol. You could be flexible about the rifle caliber too. (Don't tell HJ that I wrote this. ;) )

 

We have a dedicated WBAS club at my home venue. There are several WBAS shooters who never shoot SASS and one who sold his SASS guns and only shoots WBAS, IDPA...

 

If this category brought in sufficient new shooters, maybe some day, you could have a dedicated by-the-rules WBAS club.

 

Regards,

 

AM

 

I see something of the same.  WBAS here has maybe five to eight and I am not sure how many are even interested.  I do know that some Cowboy shooters do not like the idea of having to do another rifle or shotgun.  I know some cowboy shooters would not like that but I think most would not care as long as things are scored differently.  The big argument has been that most TO/ROs are not trained on semi-autos.  That would be something that would have to be changed. 

 

One club did something like this though for a bit and not sure why it dropped off (I am thinking WB came along but it was before I started with the club) called Turn of the Century cowboy.  Same cowboy setup as the cowboy shooters but instead of two single action revolvers it was any semi-auto up to about 1917.  Of course that would be something SASS would have to decide on. 

 

However whether that would draw more people to WB or not is not certain.  CAS is having enough trouble with keeping its numbers up, most of the cowboys including me are getting on and while I see some younger folks (less than 50) come around by far most younger shooters are heading off to 3 gun.  It is what they are used to seeing.  I have tried 3 gun but my knees and hips cannot take some of the scenarios.  That being said, I have sometimes gone to 3 gun and instead taken my cowboy or WB guns instead.  I am not competitive at all and with the cowboy guns definitely puts me at the bottom.  However, I see a few of the younger crowd watch and start asking questions.  A few ask about CAS and I tell them about that and also WB which might appeal to being used to semi crowd.  Flipping open a schofield has gotten a few to go "OH WOW! I did not know they could do that!"  I have talked to the local 3 gun match director and he indicated that enough (3 or more) people want to shoot the scenarios with cowboy style guns he would call it a separate scoring category almost like the Western 3 gun. 

 

Well off the soapbox now.

 

 

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