Double barrel shotgun question

[JP Remington]

I have a question about the rules and how they relate to SxS shotguns.

In the shooters handbook

On P22 :-

There is no penalty for an empty case/hull in a gun that is open or that the shooter has cycled. If a proper attempt has been made to cycle the gun, it will be cocked.

On P19 :-

A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only  (some conditions may be corrected before firing the next firearm):

- Empty.

- No live round in the chamber, action cycled, and muzzle safely downrange.

- Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed  (restaged for further use)

- Action open.

So my question is :-

At the end of the shotgun string can a SxS shotgun shooter open the shotgun (cycle) and restage with empty hulls in the chambers without penalties? 

SHB P22 conditions:-(my assumptions in bold)

There is no penalty for an empty case/hull in a gun that is open Condition is satisfied - no penalty 

or that the shooter has cycled. Condition is satisfied - no penalty

If a proper attempt has been made to cycle the gun, it will be cocked. Condition is satisfied - no penalty

SHB P19 conditions:- (my assumptions in bold)

- Empty. No

- No live round in the chamber, action cycled, and muzzle safely downrange. Condition is satisfied - no penalty

- Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed (restaged for further use) N/A

- Action open. Condition is satisfied - no penalty

Thoughts?

Thanks 

JP

[Abe E.S. Corpus]

Read the definition of “Action Cycled” in the current SHB-it only applies to lever and pump action long guns.

The Double cannot meet the “condition”.

[JP Remington]

5 hours ago, Abe E.S. Corpus said:

Read the definition of “Action Cycled” in the current SHB-it only applies to lever and pump action long guns.

The Double cannot meet the “condition”.

P38, thanks for that.

What is the penalty for leaving fired hull/s in SxS shotguns?

[Abe E.S. Corpus]

2 hours ago, JP Remington said:

P38, thanks for that.

What is the penalty for leaving fired hull/s in SxS shotguns?

Same as in CAS:  MSV

[JP Remington]

18 minutes ago, Abe E.S. Corpus said:

Same as in CAS:  MSV

Thankyou, is there a reference in the SHB you can point me to?

[Missouri Ruffian]

12 hours ago, Abe E.S. Corpus said:

Read the definition of “Action Cycled” in the current SHB-it only applies to lever and pump action long guns.

The Double cannot meet the “condition”.

I must agree the addition of “lever and pump action long guns” in the definition of Action Cycled” makes it a no go. However, isn’t it likely this was there before SxS’s were allowed in Wild Bunch.  If so, and since a SXS would meet the real definition “Opening the action far enough to cock the hammer.” (or in this case hammers) wouldn’t a rule change be in order?  Similar changes should apply to “Action Closed” and Action Open.”

[Flying W Ramrod]

1 hour ago, Missouri Ruffian said:

I must agree the addition of “lever and pump action long guns” in the definition of Action Cycled” makes it a no go. However, isn’t it likely this was there before SxS’s were allowed in Wild Bunch.  If so, and since a SXS would meet the real definition “Opening the action far enough to cock the hammer.” (or in this case hammers) wouldn’t a rule change be in order?  Similar changes should apply to “Action Closed” and Action Open.”

The reason that part of the rule is there, and will be there, is to ensure the sxs shooters attempt to cycle instead of just open, drop, and run.

[JP Remington]

Great answers about the rule, thanks to everyone for their input.

On my read the penalty for this rule has been omitted in the latest version (17.6) of the SHB.

Pages 28 and 37 in version 17.4 (2024) specifically call out the penalty for leaving an empty in the chamber of a long gun as a MSV.

Pages 28 and 37 in version 17.6 (2025) are silent on the matter.

@Missouri Ruffian I like your thinking but it's not the hill I want to die on today  🤣

[Flying W Ramrod]

3 hours ago, JP Remington said:

Great answers about the rule, thanks to everyone for their input.

On my read the penalty for this rule has been omitted in the latest version (17.6) of the SHB.

Pages 28 and 37 in version 17.4 (2024) specifically call out the penalty for leaving an empty in the chamber of a long gun as a MSV.

Pages 28 and 37 in version 17.6 (2025) are silent on the matter.

@Missouri Ruffian I like your thinking but it's not the hill I want to die on today  🤣

That's because there is no penalty for leaving a round on the carrier or in the magazine, the penalty is for not cycling the action.

SHB Pg 28: - "Not cycling the action of a long gun at the end of the shooting string before the next firearm is fired"

 The only penalty for a round left is for a Live Round in the Chamber.

As the definition of "Action Cycled" is spelled out in the SHB Glossary, pg 38, as "Action Cycled (lever and pump action long guns) – Opening the action far enough to cock the hammer." It shows the SxS does not fall under this, therefore, the chambers must be empty.

[JP Remington]

9 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

That's because there is no penalty for leaving a round on the carrier or in the magazine, the penalty is for not cycling the action.

SHB Pg 28: - "Not cycling the action of a long gun at the end of the shooting string before the next firearm is fired"

 The only penalty for a round left is for a Live Round in the Chamber.

As the definition of "Action Cycled" is spelled out in the SHB Glossary, pg 38, as "Action Cycled (lever and pump action long guns) – Opening the action far enough to cock the hammer." It shows the SxS does not fall under this, therefore, the chambers must be empty.

Forget about pumps and levers for a minute.

SxS shotgun, leaving empties in the discarded gun, MSV yes?

Where in the current handbook does it say MSV. 

 

[Flying W Ramrod]

6 hours ago, JP Remington said:

Forget about pumps and levers for a minute.

SxS shotgun, leaving empties in the discarded gun, MSV yes?

Where in the current handbook does it say MSV. 

 

Again, the penalty is NOT for leaving empties in the discarded gun, it's for NOT CYCLING THE ACTION.

SHB Pg, 28

You need to get your head away from what's in the discarded gun, and look to, has the action been cycled. As there is no action to cycle in a SxS, it must be emptied.

All long guns, lever, pump or sxs, with a live round in the chamber is a SDQ penalty.

 

[JP Remington]

OK, we'll leave it there.