trooper Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 Just curious. We have shot DB as a 2 stage side match, and its a HOOT...must be awfully good fun as a match category... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 (edited) Pershing's Pursuit was Missouri State WB up through 2023 (and sort of SW Territorial) and was the first to run DB and TR as main match category in 2023 before it was fully approved. They are two of the best categories, but baffle me when people say "rifle is the least emphasized part of WB." Unnecessary verbiage, that pushes things in the other direction. Edited October 22 by Artemus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totes Magoats Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Texas State Wild Bunch match started it last year when the rules change and we will continue you it this year. Hosted at Texas Riveria Pistoleros in George West, TX. Totes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Dan Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 This has always baffled me. Please explain how you can shoot a different set of targets with a different sequence than the other competitors and still be scored as "main match" category? I fully support the DB and TR as side match, just don't see how you can put them in the main match, also you need a RIFLE range to shoot it. Most of the CAS ranges I go to only have pistol ranges (50 yards or less) and couldn't even support rifle caliber shooting. CAS has long range rifle as a side match, WB should be the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted October 24 Author Share Posted October 24 One presumes DB/TR are competing only within TR or DB. Which is how the normal match is, in essence. I know we have an "Overall" winner announced...(which TBH has always struck me as a bit odd in both CAS and WB given the handicaps some categories inherently have) but Traditional competes against Traditional, Modern against Modern for category awards. How is this any different? Ranges that can't have it won't. Those that can, will. The use of ONLY LEAD bullets removes some restrictions... WB does have a Rifle side match..its called BAMM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holloman Posted October 25 Share Posted October 25 I shoot Doughboy. We generally use the Cody Dixon targets at 50-60 yards. It does take longer to make 5 offhand bolt action rifle caliber shots (lately I've been using a Krag Carbine) than 7-10 pistol caliber rifle shots at 15-20 yards. I recognize that and realize that when shooting Doughboy I am only competing against other Doughboy shooters and not competing for overall (but then I know I will never be competitive against guys who can make a pistol caliber lever gun sound like a submachine gun). Same thing in Cowboy matches where I shoot Cody Dixon Single shot, I know that overall is not in my future. But I also run the risk that there won't be enough Doughboy shooters (usually 3) and the category will be dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 Rifle targets at 30-50 yards work great for TR and DB. If you can't get them out far enough, make the targets smaller to balance it out. You will be very hard pressed, to win overall shooting in TR or DB if you are thinking that people will be doing that. The data is out there to back this up. TR and DB are a whole 'nother level of fun on top of WB and I wouldn't have WB without it. I only wish we could bring rifle caliber to the other game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethan callahan Posted October 28 Share Posted October 28 I shot the a State Wild Bunch Championship couple of weekends ago and TR/DB were not offered there nor has it ever been offered in the main matches in my area. Bamm was offered as a side match at the cowboy state shoot. Many of the clubs around here have less than 25 yard bays so it is tough for local/state matches. I see TR and DB as more of a side match as not every club can accomodate the distances for every bay. I shot TR as a side match at land run a couple years ago and it was a fun side match same with BAMM, something different for sure. If you have the long bays and have a match director that wants to write in separate senarios for TR/ DB then recognize the catagory in a main match and advertise it is available or alternatively if you don't have 10 long range bays and just one have it as a side match with an award. I personally just don't see it feasable to be shot in every main match for every state due the the length of the bays varying by different clubs. All for it as a side match for those of us that only have one 100 yard bay. Maybe we should come up with some standard side matches and more guidelines for wild bunch side matches. Such as you can shoot the speed events all day and not just the 1st time through counts for score or if there is a limit make it 10x not 1 or 2 or 3. Many of us are just getting warmed up by the 3rd run... or have BAMM, TR and DB side match offered for those clubs that can accomodate it. TR and DB are new to many so a listing of what guns are legal would be nice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denton Dancer Posted October 29 Share Posted October 29 I agree that not every club has the capability to have DB/TR due to range limitations, Clubs that have WB matches need to indicate in their advertising if DB/TR are allowed in the main match. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Posted October 29 Share Posted October 29 5 hours ago, ethan callahan said: I shot the a State Wild Bunch Championship couple of weekends ago and TR/DB were not offered there nor has it ever been offered in the main matches in my area. Bamm was offered as a side match at the cowboy state shoot. Many of the clubs around here have less than 25 yard bays so it is tough for local/state matches. I see TR and DB as more of a side match as not every club can accomodate the distances for every bay. I shot TR as a side match at land run a couple years ago and it was a fun side match same with BAMM, something different for sure. If you have the long bays and have a match director that wants to write in separate senarios for TR/ DB then recognize the catagory in a main match and advertise it is available or alternatively if you don't have 10 long range bays and just one have it as a side match with an award. I personally just don't see it feasable to be shot in every main match for every state due the the length of the bays varying by different clubs. All for it as a side match for those of us that only have one 100 yard bay. Maybe we should come up with some standard side matches and more guidelines for wild bunch side matches. Such as you can shoot the speed events all day and not just the 1st time through counts for score or if there is a limit make it 10x not 1 or 2 or 3. Many of us are just getting warmed up by the 3rd run... or have BAMM, TR and DB side match offered for those clubs that can accomodate it. TR and DB are new to many so a listing of what guns are legal would be nice too. I am a little concerned here, as what may be one of the only things the shooters wanted that managed to get changed in the chaos of the last two years, and you sound inclined to not have it as a main match category in the future. It doesn't help that basically all of the shooters that advocated for TR/DB, developed, and worked through the rule changes have moved on to bigger and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Teton Lady Posted October 30 Share Posted October 30 Some areas and ranges in the country have the ability to offer DB/TR, however I will go out on a limb and and say most ranges we shoot at and east of the Mississippi will not allow rifle cartridges in the “berms”. The gun clubs that own the ranges have rules against it and the berms are only 20 yards deep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holloman Posted November 3 Share Posted November 3 I shoot at three "local " clubs that have ( or have had) recent Wild Bunch programs. Ran one of them. None shoot on commercial ranges. All on private ranches where the clubs have varying lease arrangements with the landowners. One has a berm backstop behind the stages at 20/25 yards . At that club we do no shoot Doughboy/TR and the Cowboy shooters do not shoot Cody Dixon as a Category ( there is a separate area for long range). The Club just accepts that as a limitation of their facility. The other two clubs have no berms, and are backstopped by rising terrain downrange. One is holding the 2025state Wild Bunch match and is offering DB/TR. The other is holding the State SASS Cowboy match, and will offer DB/TR if there is sufficient interest (I shot Doughboy there last year). As an additional data point they also offer a BAMM side match that is a combined offhand (50 yard) and bench (75-150 yard) match, and a fastest 1911 side match (two mags) at the Club's annual match ( the State match in 2025), generally run at the same place to keep the staffing efficient. My point is that clubs that ha the facilities can offer Doughboy and Teddy Roosevelt as main match Wild Bunch classes, clubs that don't, don't have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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