PapaGrande

Smoother, more reliable, easier and less expensive to maintain and less expensive to purchase. Next to the venerable 870, the M1912 may be the best pump shotgun ever.

Nope. There are no real safety/technical/historical issues that preclude WBers from taking part in a SASS match. There are very real political issues with some SASS groups I have learned. Your comment about "2 different shooting sports with 2 different Handbook regulations" is an excuse, not a reason.

After creating this thread and taking part in its discussion, doing the same over at the SASS Wire (http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=227400), doing some additional reading, talking to a few more people in person and spending some time digesting all the information I have reached this conclusion: There are no real safety/technical/historical issues that preclude WBers from taking part in a SASS match. The safety/technical items that were offered as reasons for not allowing WBers to shoot SASS matches are such non-issues or so easily overcome that I personally view them as excuses. Empirical proof and logic simply doesn't allow for another conclusion. As others have pointed out it's all about "politics" and bigotry. For the record I also learned that quite a few SASS clubs DO INDEED allow WBers to take part in their matches. It was very nice to make that discovery! The resistance to allowing WBers to take part in SASS matches by some SASS groups stems from a manifold of reasons. I think the most important reason is the culture of many SASS groups. For many, assuming their western persona for a day or weekend, engaging in fellowship with their friends and simply getting away and taking part in the shoot are the primary reasons they attend SASS events. These reasons are far more important to them than competition, marksmanship, historical accuracy, etc., etc. which may (or may not) be of greater interest to a given WBer. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that -- it's largely those qualities that make SASS a success. It's just the way it is. I think difficult, even boorish behavior by some SASSers (far less common in real life than on the SASS Wire) is spawned by their desire to "keep things just as they are" because they personally conclude (even if they may not realize it) that doing so is the best way to maintain the enjoyment they currently derive from taking part in SASS events. I think SASS tolerates and even encourages such behavior to a degree because it's quite literally "good for business" -- at least for now. Clearly some individual SASS groups have wider/clearer views of this and other issues and when combined with some empirical proof they realize that there are no safety/technical/historical issues that preclude WBers from taking part in a SASS match so they allow it. Good for them! I wish I lived near such a SASS group! Thanks to everyone participating in the two threads. It was quite educational for me.

Why didn't they like it? Too slow? Not challenging enough?

Maybe in their holsters or where SASSers stage their revolvers?

I would hope that any individual who is capable of ROing a SASS match should very easily be able to learn how to clear a M1911. In all actuality I would hope they would already have enough general gun knowledge...

Thanks for the comments. They made me laugh -- and some made me shake my head knowingly. I don't think that there shouldn't be a separate WB group and all, but it would be nice if a solo WBer could shoot a SASS match as a WBer, simply because around here, SASS matches are common and WB matches are few and far between. I realize the targeting wouldn't be all that challenging but it would still be fun.

Why doesn't SASS allow Wild Bunchers to compete in "standard" SASS matches as just another category or two? Too often it seems like the Wild Bunch is treated as a "side match." Is there a technical reason? Would a .45ACP round damage metal targets at the short distances used in SASS? If it is, could it be handled by setting a maximum power factor? Or is SASS concerned (as they seem to be when it comes to the idea adult rimfire) that too many people would matriculate from "standard" SASS to WB? Thanks.

Maybe I will make-up a uniform for a SEVEN star Mexican Generalissimo AKA "Maximum Leader."

I'm curious about how true-to-history WB military uniforms need to be with regard to rank? I believe the year depicted in the WB is 1913? In 1913 the US did not have a 5 star general (Pershing was a long ways away from that distinction) and it has not "really" ever had a field marshall or six star general status -- although George Washington was effectively the Field Marshall of the US. Anywho, would it be in poor taste to craft a WB costume that would depict the US Field Marshall/Six Star General of the time? All in jest of course. Just how does one choose their rank when crafting a WB military uniform? Thanks.

I don't wearing "panties." Are you psychologically projecting, perchance?

Gunsite? With the founder looking like this for years and years? http://www.frfrogspad.com/hat.jpg 8) But, then again, there's this: Good luck, GJ I guess the current Gunsiters don't want to look like dorks?

Just button-up yer collar before a run... 99% of 3Gun, USPSA and IDPA shooters wear caps and they sling a lot of brass. Training places like Gunsite suggest a ball cap and a buttoned-up collar.

width=600 height=643 http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNDkz/$T2eC16RHJIYE9qUcOOv4BQ5I2T,HR!~~60_57.JPG[/img] A proper "newsboy" or "8 panel" cap. Not to be confused with similar but different "Ivy League", "flat" or "driving" cap.

They're comfortable, light, keep the sun off and they won't shift on your head as you're running to the next position. Do you know how "cowboys" dressed around here (California) around 1900? White long-sleeved shirts which pretty much look like a man's simple dress shirt today. Clean at the beginning of the day and filthy by the end based on family photos. Some wore western hats, more it seemed wore something similar to a "trilby", a derby (yes, a derby) or a newsboy cap. The pants looked like dungarees and the boots looked like ropers or lace-up ropers. Not at all like some of the silly CAS costumes.

What?

Thanks, I appreciate the input. The Corcoran's make a lot of sense in that shoes/boots like them were made back in the "Wild Bunch" days but they also stand out to some as being WWII boots... I've shot three gun matches for a number of years with some success. When I trade my Glock pistol/Benelli shotgun/Colt rifle for a Ruger pistol/Winchester shotgun/Pedersoli rifle, I would like to try to be outfitted in a manner that will let me shoot pretty much in the same manner I do for three gun. I think I'm just going to wear a newsboy cap, a Henley shirt with rolled-up sleeves, Levis 501's and the Corcorans and be done with it. Thanks again.

I'm not certain but I don't know that the "modern" adjective is expressly part of the SASS language pertaining to this matter. I'd like to wear a pair of old cordovan Corcoran boots I have. They don't have rubber soles or heels that would offer any sort of tactical advantage but they also didn't yet existing during the time depicted in The Wild Bunch.

Everything I mentioned was in the actual movie... Flat caps from which the newsboy cap derives may be traced back to the 14th century in Northern England. I've seen Daguerreotypes of the Old West dating to the latter 19th Century and some of the men and boys are wearing this type of cap. They may not follow the CAS rules but they are authentic to the place and time. I was thinking about wearing a pink Henley shirt with a newsboy cap and lace-up boots along with a period correct set of Packard fisher-stripe coveralls but I cannot ascertain for certain what brand of convertible was owned by the Mexican general?

I was thinking that I would like to wear a newsboy cap, simple long-sleeved work shirt, dungarees and lace-up boots. I definitely would not do the ball cap/t-shirt/running shorts/sneakers look, but I also don't want to wear a heavy-duty costume either.

I'm curious about where the rules are codified for The Wild Bunch matches in terms of costumes? I understand what's specifically prohibited and what's suggested. What I don't see are discussions about clothing that was definitely in the movie (ex. paperboy caps) yet no one seems to talk about them. Any help would be deeply appreciated. Thanks.

Can you please list the model # of your boots? I'm not sure what's meant by "lugged soles" which are prohibited. I cannot wear pull-on boots. If I had to I could not shoot WB matches. Are there other options? Thanks.