evilroy

Joe, I think what everyone is talking about was the WB final scores with stage times were not posted on the board or on the website when the CAS ones were. Also I am not sure the daily scores were on the board. I am pretty sure I could not look up the WB final scores on the website to see how I did time wise on the stages and I am not sure they wee on the board after the awards. Someone chime in as my memory of this is not good. I could have the details wrong. I think it should be handled exactly the same as the CAS part.

This side match for the WB lever gun. Both Men and Women categories. Three targets at 20 yards. Double tap Nevada Sweep. First run for trophies. Unlimited runs for Fastest. $2 per run. I still need volunteers and Sponsors for side events.

I got off a message to Zak about posting scores. I will let you know the reply. I'm sure it was just an oversight last year.

Have you signed up yet? If not get at it! We need a good turnout.

The 1911 speed side match will be 10 rounds. 3 targets at 7 yards. Double tap Nevada sweep. Misses add 5 seconds. First run for the trophies. Both Men and Women categories. Smaller trophy Fastest time. No limit on number of runs for this trophy. $2 per run. I need some volunteers to help run the side events. Someone step up and sponsor this and other side matches. I want to give nice trophies. I would hope you will get some recognition at the awards.

We are going to try to keep the standard high. I am trying to get decent side match trophies as well but always a work in progress. On that subject we need more sponsors for the Main match and side matches. The problem is the WB matches are still step child status and a drain on revenues. We need for them to make money on WB. I bought trophies for the first few years at WR and they were real good at working with me to get something nice. EOT would not accept my offer after the first year as they did not want me to dictate what trophies they give and who they gave them to. At that time there was a fight over even awarding the Overall. The awards this year for the side matches at EOT were $1 trinkets totally unworthy of winning a side match at the World Championships.

Added. Starting standing, shoot any position such as standing, prone, table or whatever we have set up as a rest.

We had some interest in a long range 1911 match so....5 rounds, 12 inch target, 50 yards. First run for the trophies, both men and women. Shoot til you drop for smaller fastest time trophy. $2 per run. Most hits with time as tie breaker.

I will e-mail Zak and ask him to post the WB scores at the same time the CAS results are posted. Is that what you are referring to ?

I have to find that out.

The WB awards will be at the same time as the CAS match. I believe the side match awards are on Friday night and the main WB match awards on Sunday with the CAS awards.

We will have a long range bolt action side match this year. Allowed Rifles per the rules: Must be an original caliber bolt action rifle issued by any country to its military forces through the end of WW ll. It must be "as issued" with original iron battle sights and no external modifications. Faithful reproductions are also allowed. Don't show up with anything which does not meet the rules. There will be no exceptions. For this match you can shoot fmj ammo. I am bringing targets which will withstand the hits. There will be a men's and women's category. We will pay 3 deep in both. First run for score. A smaller separate trophy will be given for the fastest time for any run even if you run it 100 times. We will have real trophies. Each run will cost $5 to help pay for them. We will have loaner rifles and ammo for shooters with no rifle. $10 per run with them to offset ammo cost. Targets will be 12x14 inch ovals set at 100, 125 and 150 yards. Each shooter will shoot two five round Nevada Sweep runs. Reload off the clock. Score will be the total time of both runs. Most hits wins with time being the tie breaker. You can shoot off sticks or off any table or bales on the stage. Gun starts with bolt open, magazine loaded. There could be small changes such as small adjustment on range but this is what we plan now. We need volunteers to help with the side matches and we are still looking for some more sponsors to offset cost. Sign up for the match. We want to overwhelm them with shooters. Evil Roy

The match this year looks to be a 5 stage a day 2 day event. We want this year to be a big event so sign up. If we get a good turnout the next year could evolve into a three day match with 4 stages per day. We need a heavy turn out.

Wild Bunch side patch at WR. The clays event will be shot on the WR bays so no travel required to the shotgun range. It will utilize a wobble trap and will be a team event. The trap throws high, low and at different angles in flurries. Two person team both men and women. Pays 3 deep. Shoot it as many times as you want best times win. About as much fun as you can have with a shotgun. Must use a WB legal shotgun. A real trophy will be awarded. No paper certificates. You have a chance to be a national Champion here. Any of you who have shot a wobble trap could comment here. I think the cost will be $8 per run per team. We may need some more volunteer help here and on other side matches so let me know if you can help.

If those who want to attend the WB RO send me an email with contact phone numbers and email info. I am keeping a list and will let everyone know status. Thanks. ER evilroy@evilroy.com

Keep em coming. Looks like we have enough interest and might get enough to make a class.

Ok. Bogus Deal has offered to teach the class so contact friends and shooters to see if we can get enough to do a class. I think we can get enough if we get at it now. Thanks to everyone. ER

If we have enough interest in a WB RO class I will check to see if we can make it happen. If you are interested let me know now. If you know of others contact them and have them contact me. We need to have enough committed to make it happen. ER

WR is on the horizon so it might be a good idea to get signed up. The WB match will have side matches this year. We will have team Wobble Trap for both men and women, Long Range bolt action rifle for both men and women, Speed Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol. The bolt action match will allow fmj ammo for the first time. This should be a fun match and with the addition of the side matches even better. We are looking for some more sponsors for the side shoots. Contact me if you are interested or have questions. evilroy@evilroy.com If we get enough shooters this year there is the possibility of making the match a 12 stage 3 day match the following year. Help us make it grow.

Again. Many good points. I agree with Dusty in that we need more positive exposure to let people know what we do and how much fun it is. WB is very popular when held with CAS shoots where what it is known. it has been proved that allowing a .357 rifle does not result in more shooters. It is and has been tried in many clubs. It is and always has been a big bore sport. 5 round or 7 round really does not seem to matter to those who do shoot which are mostly CAS shooters. Negative comments about the 5 round rule usually come from combat shooters many of who have a negative view of CAS as a shooting sport for several reasons. Same with the dress up part. If you eliminated both the concerns of costuming and mag capacity many of those same shooters would not change their opinion. If you changed both costuming and mag capacity it would only help change the perception of not being SASS with a 1911 but I am not sure it would result in more shooters. Conclusion is that the combat shooters are a hard sell. Any serious shooter will shoot whatever mag capacity is required and information about dress can be addressed with exposure. A hat and work boots cannot be a reason not to shoot. The equipment deal doesn't not stop people from spending lots of money to shoot modern 3 gun or CAS or buying motorcycles or boats. People do that because the WANT to do things. We need to make the WANT to shoot with us. Good positive articles and TV coverage will help. I am going to try to get an article in an NRA publication which is pretty difficult. Kane Robertson said he would help all he can which won't hurt.

Most of the time when I talk to people they ask questions about fast draw even after I explain to them what we do. When I talk to them weeks later they say "that's that fast draw guy". Part of the reason is SASS has down played the competition so much that other shooting sports do not consider us a shooting sport. This is carrying over to WB which is a very serious shooting sport just like CAS is. Folks who want to compete don't think of either one as shooting competition. I started shooting SASS in Durango because of the competition and I was fortunate to have 2 very competitive shooters in the club. We have to appeal to shooters who want to compete. I think we have to stress that fact that the dress factor here is minimal and still make it clear to those who are into the history part that they are welcome and encouraged to dress in period clothing if they desire to do so. We are establishing a Senior category, we have allowed model 12 shotguns and have changed a few rules to make the game more palpable to some. The matches held in conjunction with CAS matches are very popular because SASS members know what we do. We need to push the matches within SASS with the goal of expanding it to the shooting masses outside of SASS. As far as the 5 round rule changing it will only help separate it some from SASS and maybe tick off some who do like shooting 5. Which is best?

Lots of great discussion here. Many good points. Here are some things to think about. There is not one shooting sport I know of which requires 7 rounds in a 1911. We could be the first but to suggest that 5 rounds is hurting the sport is wrong in my view. Does it hurt your chance of survival in a real gun fight that we don't carry 7 rounds in the magazine and require the slide to be racked? I carry a Glock 19 with 16 rounds for my concealed carry gun. Cowboy action does not seem to hurt my Glock shooting. I have never tried to cock the hammer on my Glock or quit shooting after 5 rounds. I shoot my favorite gun the most these days. My Colt 1911. I still carry the Glock because it is the best carry gun in my opinion. I have never tried to rack the slide as I draw it. Again have never quit shooting after 5 rounds. Would I be unable to defend myself with my Glock because I shoot a 1911 with 5 rounds in it. Hardly. Do you think a good IPSC or IDPA shooter who shoots a 1911 style pistol with 28 rounds and a 1 1/2 pound trigger would somehow be at a disadvantage defending themselves with a Glock with a 5 1/2 trigger and 15 rounds? Does shooting 5 rounds in WB hurt you is a defensive situation? Competition is just a game. Non of it teaches self defense. They all have their rules most of which has nothing to do with protecting yourself. What does help is actually shooting under pressure. Lots of trigger time with any firearm is good. I tell my students that they will learn more in one match of any kind than they will shooting targets for months. Shooting under pressure, concentrating on sight alignment, getting use to noise and recoil and thinking under stress are all good things about competing. Like the lady said go to a self defense class to learn tactics to protect yourself. Again I don't care how many rounds we load in the mag. It just seems considering we have to set up and move steel, move with an open gun and other considerations works well with 5. I think the biggest thing is many think Cowboy Action is just silly because of the dress up and many in the shooting world think none of us know how to shoot. I do think WB is the easiest shooting sport to transition to because we have very simple rules, there is no loading of the shotgun on the clock and the gear is pretty simple.

The hat under discussion will likely be just fine. Keep the shirt collar buttoned and make sure the hat covers the gap between the glasses and face so brass won't fall between them and your face. The brass from a 1873 rifle does not eject like most semi autos. It goes straight up. and usually straight down. A good cowboy hat is still very hard to beat as it solves the brass problem front and back plus it protects the glasses from rain and provides shade for the eyes. Usually a short brim hat works best as it is less in the way. Some dress for looks and others to be able to shoot efficiently. The best cowboy and Wild Bunch shooters usually wear gear that lets them shoot well and satisfies the rules and not much more. There are others that really like to get into the history of the deal. Combat shooters are the same. Some want to look the "look" and the top shooters just want to shoot well so use what works best.

To the heart of the matter on getting more shooters from other sports. I think the costume thing is the limiting factor for many. I do not think folks realize what you can wear and be legal in WB for CAS as well. Basic farm/ranch wear usually works. Like I said if IDPA required shorts that would be a stop and think moment for me. The other thing is people have to realize these are very challenging matches using large bore guns with power factors. Clean matches are very rare. The mag thing may or may not ever change but the matches are fun whether 5, 6 ,7 ,8 or 10 rounds are used in the 1911. The rifle and shotgun need to stay important or it will be just another 1911 match. Quit trying to find reasons not to shoot and get out and go bang. Most who shoot as much as they can, get the gear and go shoot. They do not try to change the rules before they start to fit their every desire. Go have some fun.

Like I said I don't care either way but the bottom line is how many more shooters have you clubs gotten when you started shooting WB with 7 rounds. Sounds like you attendance doubled. Did it? The majority of clubs and people we talked to either don't care or are perfectly happy with 5 rounds. If clubs started calling saying that the instant they upped the mag count attendance soared I would be on board in a heartbeat. The clubs I talked to said it made no difference. Again it makes no difference in any other sport as well. If your only reason for not shooting is it is too much like CAS you are not shooting the same matches as me.