JJ

Hi All . . . I hope this will be a quick question - though I doubt it. Today while out tossing rounds down range, I was asked what the definition of 'modern shooting gloves' is? I had absolutely no idea and the rules deal with nothing specific other than saying they are not allowed. I think I understand that if I were to go to the local Sportsman Warehouse and pick up a set of gloves labeled 'shooting gloves' than these type of items are not allowed. I got that part. Now how about if a person comes to a match with a pair of cowboy roper gloves (some are very thin leather) with the trigger finger cut off? Is this allowed? How about if the trigger finger is not cut off? Or how about if a shooter stops at the Home Depot and brings home a set of those nice $14.95 gloves that fit tightly and are strapped down at the wrist with velcro? I also suspect these types if gloves might not be allowed. Not attempting to stir up any controversies, just attempting to get some clarification. thanks in advance - J.J.

Yup - I also think the current scoring system for Wild Bunch stinks. As Tully mentioned Total Time would be my preference also. I wonder how many other Wild Bunch Shooters would have the same preference? And - as a comment here: For a Hobby/Sport that is dying a slow death, why can not the powers-to-be attempt to accommodate just a few requests. Why not show both scoring systems for the large matches. What harm could there possibly be to accommodate all shooters to show the two different scoring systems? Sometimes goofy rules make no sense to most. As Marshal Stone seemed to indicate, what a shame there seems little chance for change when those in charge display appearances of having their heads buried in the sand and seem to not care what is happening around them. Of course others mileage may vary.

I want to thank you two guys for your posts. Both answers are a great help. Now if I would have accomplished my due diligence early this morning, with just a little searching on this forum, I could have had an answer without bothering you guys, Just one other question (loaded question) - who is a good person to send off this/these scattergun(s) for an action job? I/we have absolutely no idea on this. A PM is just fine. J.J.

Hello Everyone - A few weeks ago I purchased a Winchester Model 12. It is an older scattergun manufactured in the middle 1920's. It appears to have been hunted quite a bit but shot very little. The action is tight and the gun cycles very nice. The inside parts appear to have very little much wear and the barrels inside looked like a mirror. So here's the problem - When cycling shells into the chamber 'occasionally' a shell when lifted from the feed tube will catch itself on the outside right edge of the right side of the shell and hang up on front edge the port leading into the scattergun's chamber. I hope I have explained this correctly. This issue was videoed yesterday when test firing a couple of boxes of shells. In slow motion it was quite noticeable. I wish I knew how to post the video here. This problem happens with both factory and reloaded shells. Interestingly enough a friend of mine also purchased a Model 12 manufactured in the same era. Yesterday while test firing the scatterguns he encountered the exact same problem. For all of you guys that are way much more knowledgeable than us, any insight here would be a great help. We are both hoping for a fix that we can accomplish ourselves. If not who do we send them to for 'whatever'? Thanks in advance for any advice any may be able to offer us. J.J.

WoW !! I read this WB Forum and the SASS Cowboy Forum frequently. It never ceases to amaze me on how some work, so amazingly hard, to continue to harm this sport. If that is all a TO has to do is to somehow count the rounds in a shooters magazine(s) while on the shooters belt and not inform the shooter of the possible infraction before he starts the stage, that person has way too much time on their hands. Quite possibly that person should retake the WB RO Class no matter how new or long he had his WB RO badge . This type of action does absolutely nothing to further Wild Bunch Shooting. By the way - I have made poor calls also. Not particularly proud of them, but I have learned from them. After reading the Jackaroo's post it's no wonder why, in my mind, this is a dying sport. Between reading this sort of stuff on the WB Form and others like it on the SASS Cowboy Forms there is no doubt in my mind why I believe I will easily outlive these two shooting sports. Some may or may not agree with my comments. They are, however, my thoughts. J.J.

Thank you very much for your replies guys. When I saw those big holes in the brass, I had absolutely no idea why that would have been accomplished. Never gave the wax bullets idea a thought. Also my first thought was to toss them in the scrap brass box and that is where all of them now reside. I was just inquisitive as to other ideas as to why someone would go through the trouble of drilling a large hole in the bottom of the 45acp brass.

Hello All A few days ago I was given a large quantity of grungy 45 acp range brass. After running it through the wet media tumbler to make it nice and pretty I noticed a 'bunch' of the brass had the primer flash hole drilled out to something like 1/8". Does anybody have any idea what the purpose of this is ?? I have reloaded quite a bit of once fired 45acp and never encountered this before. thanks for anyone's answer.

Hi All . . . . I have a problem for some of you machinists/smiths. A few months ago I ordered a new IAC 97 scattergun. It was a great gun right out of the box. As a matter of fact I used it so much over the past couple of months that I now find the left extractor now needs replacement. I was told informed that the left extractor for the Winchester 97 was a duplicate replacement for the IAC 97. That was easy to order. A couple of weeks ago I replaced the left extractor on my Winchester. The extractor pin was easy to move down its channel for extractor replacement. I am now attempting to replace the left extractor on the IAC 97 but am having a dickens of a time removing the pin. No matter how hard I thump on the pin it will NOT budge. I even built a jig out of maple to hold the bolt so it would not move when I was thumping on the pin. That little pin could have been welded in by some happy go lucky Chinese fella at the plant for all I know. It doesn't look like it but it sure seems that way !! Now I am at a loss. Is my only option left to drill out the pin and hope I can find a replacement pin (where)?? If I drill out the pin would a 1/16" carbide bit do the trick so the pin could be driven out or does the bit need to be bigger? Any help anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated. Respectfully submitted, J.J. High Plains Drifters Roop County Cowboys Fernley NV

Tully - Joe First of all thank you for your responses. Yesterday, I figured out what the problem was. I took the scattergun (Norinco 97) over to my friend and mentor's place (Deadeye Dick) and we spent an entire afternoon working on a couple of Chinese 97's. By the way, Deadeye HATES working on Chinese 97's. From my old US Coast Guard days, I thought I knew every bad word that existed - I was wrong . . . . Well - getting back to my original problem. What we found out was that the Ejection Pin 'T' bottom had broken in half. The bottom middle half of the 'T' had been broken and was still in the 97's frame. After come careful looking with magnifying glasses, we found where the remaining piece had been pressed into the frame. The Chinese 97 and the Winchester 97 both take the same part. After we found where the pin came through the frame, the bottom half of the 'T' was punched through the frame leaving a hole for the new part to be pressed in. It fit quite tightly and will not fall out until it again brakes at some future date. After a little bit of filing, reassembling, working the action, disassembling, filing, reassembling, etc, etc (I suspect you-all get the picture) the Chinese 97 again preforms flawlessly. Thanks everyone for reading and the thoughts you may have had. Perhaps in 15 or 20 years I also may know just about everything there is to know on 97's, but I doubt it. J.J.

Tully Thanks for the inquiry/response. I actually found the part in question on the following web page: http://marauder.homestead.com/files/97parts.htm (not sure if this like works automatically, probably have to cut/paste) It is listed as #76 on the Winchester 97 Parts Diagram on Marauders Web page. It is just a stinky little part that you would not normally notice. It is on the left inside side of frame and located right smack dab behind the Extractor Spring. I would have thought that little sucker was a piece of the frame. I don't think the entire part is over 2.5 MM long, about 1 MM deep. You would not even know unless you went in there and started to poke around a bit. I can not imagine how I noticed that it was just hanging there. I was cleaning the inside with q-tips, carb. cleaner, and gun cleaner when I noticed it turned sideways. Any help is greatly appreciated. J.J.

Hello Again I know one of you guys that reads this knows the answer to this question. Last night I was cleaning my 97. Now this is a process that does not happen very often. Actually, when it was dissembled I was surprised that it actually worked after looking at all the 'gunk' in the mechanisms. So here is the question with descriptions to the best of my abilities: I took off the ejector spring and screw and cleaned the area around their associated holes. Much to my surprise another little piece right behind the ejector spring fell off. Since I had never seen this little part before so I had to go look to see what it was called. On the Winchester Parts Schematic the little part that fell off is entitled as the 'Ejector Pin'. I cleaned the area and attempted to put the 'Ejector Pin' back in the frame, but as loose at it fits in its little hole there on that slide, I don't believe it is going to stay upon reassembly. I also suspect it is something that in needed for the 97 to function properly. I was really surprised that it had not fallen out earlier. The real question here is when placing the Ejector Pin back into the frame should it be glued/welded or what (a smidgen of JB Weld)? Press fitting it back into its place without something to hold it there is not going to do the trick. Any thoughts/help/suggestions here from you guys who know much more of this stuff and me would be greatly appreciated. thanks a bunch - J.J. Minden NV

Joe - Tully I want to thank both of you for your replies. I again took out the spring, reversed the spring, and cut a turn off of the coil. Now I can just BARELY get in 6 shells. I suspect later today a new spring will be on order. This is really funny to me. Before I stretched the spring, 6 Winchester Super X shells could fit in the magazine tub with about 3 millimeters of play and now, like I mentioned above 6 will just barely make it in. Joe - I really appreciate the time and consideration you spent on your answer. Your answer was concise and informative. I always enjoy reading your answers to questions on both of the Cowboy forums. You are always 'spot on' with no politics involved. Tully - yup, I and probably 5 others will be invading Cowboy Town tomorrow morning to shoot Sutter's WB Stages. The weather over Carson Pass and at the range looks like it will be fairly nice for for this time of the year. Also thanks for your generous offer of a 'new' spring, however I think I will pass. If the silly thing does not work, I will borrow one of the NV scatterguns to compete. The more I think about it, I will order a new WB Spring Kit right after I am finished here rather than the continued screwing around with something that is 60 years old. Thanks again - J.J.

Hello I am rather new at this WB stuff so sometimes I struggle with some things. Here is my problem: My 97 was modified a couple of years ago to accept 6 rounds. Last summer, as well as last fall, it loaded and cycled 6 shells just like it should. Tomorrow myself and a bunch of other guys are attending a WB Match in CA. Yesterday, just to see if the gun would again cycle the 6 shells I stoked it up. 5 shells cycled properly and the 6th shell hung hug up between the tube and lifter(?). I assumed that the spring was not strong enough to push out the 6th shell. Well - I took off the plug on the shell tube and stretched out the spring just a smidgen or two and put everything back together. Now I can only get in 5 and 7/8ths of the 6th shell. Any ideas what I may have done incorrectly and more importantly, how can the problem be corrected? Thanks for any help you may offer. J.J. High Plains Drifters and Roop County Cowboys Fernley NV

Can you delete matches already scored - Yup - with a push of the 'Edit' button and another push of the 'Delete' button, that particular match is as if it never was.

Just looked today at the price of iPads. A good used iPad runs something like $170. The ACES Program is 'Free' through iTunes or Google Play Store. Program can either be downloaded for iPads or tablets. Much experience with both. ACES works much easier through iPads.

ACES and Wild Bunch Yup - We have used ACES with Wild Bunch and Plainsman Matches here in Northern Nevada with great success. All you have to do is enter a new 'Category' for the matches. ACES is simple to use and the results are instant. No more keying for someone after the match. However - there is an associated learning curve on how to get the results printed. Anyone with a little computer knowledge can easily handle it. If you need any help, please contact me. Would be glad to help you out.