Trench Gun questions

[Doc Holloman]

This came up over on the General Wild Bunch Forum but I figured I would post it here to try to get some clarity.

 

Trench Guns, Model 97 and Model 12.

 

It is pretty clear that an original Model 97 trench gun is legal, as are the Norinco and other trench gun clones.

 

However, the sentence in the rules that says "civilian or military style" refers specifically to model 97s.  It makes no mention of Model 12 trench guns.  So does the addition of the model 12 at the end of the paragraph page 12 of the Rules intend to include the "civilian or military style" language.

 

Also, do the  rules preclude modifying either a standard model 97 or 12 into a replica trench gun, or does the language "original or replica" include  shooter made replicas  of "military style."

 

Now as a newly minted RO, I am not going to start checking model 12 serial numbers to see if a gun is an original trench gun, but I had thought of making a replica myself as a project.

 

 

[Happy Jack]

As already stated modifying an original sport shotgun to make it appear like a "trench gun" is NOT listed as an allowable external modification.    Real model 12 "trench guns" are extremely rare and collectable so seeing an actual one (not a fake)  would be unexpected at a WBAS match. Model 12 "riot guns" without the heat shield etc. are not as rare and are legal under the current rues. 

 

The RO committee will put the issue of a real model 12 trench gun on the list for discussion.  In the meantime I personally feel that it would be allowed but that is not an official final decision as the wording in the rule would need to be modified.

[Doc Holloman]

I agree that original Model 12 trench guns would be fairly rare (sources differ but somewhere between 25000 and 40000 produced during WWI and WWII, compared to probably twice that number of model 97 trench guns.) But considering that an original 97 trench gun is also a valuable collector's piece ( $3000-5000) we don't generally see them used in matches either.  I certainly have never seen one.  What we see are Chinese clones or civilian 97 sporting or riot guns converted to trench guns.  I really don't see the difference between Norinco putting a heat shield on a 97 and a shooter putting one on a Model 12.  But that's me.

 

 

[Happy Jack]

I'm not here to argue, but the Chinese clones (I have one) have all the correct arsenal markings as the original 1897 winchesters so they at least don't look like a regular gun with a heat shield added.  As for a model 12 I don't know of a clone with arsenal markings.  The Committee will discuss this issue as I stated earlier.

[Baltimoreed11754]

I would also agree with Doc and don’t see a dif between Norinco putting a heat shield on a riot gun or a shooter doing it. Just about every ‘97 or M12 riotgun in use in cas is a modded field gun. None are stamped with flaming bombs or US.  So what.

[Legendary Lawman]

The Wild Bunch Range Operations Committee have reviewed the stance on trench guns and included it in the 2022 rules.  As long as a reproduction is true to the original issue trench guns, it will be allowed, no matter its origin.