Doc Holloman Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 I recall reading that while the Model 12 is legal, the Model 12 Trench Gun is not (reason being that the Model 12 Trench Gun is a WWII gun). But right now I cannot find that in the rules. Am I imagining this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Doc, a real model 12 trenchgun is full legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimoreed11754 Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 What’s the difference between a real one and a repro one besides [the serial numbers, flaming bomb and US stamps] the obvious? Is a repro [norinco] 1897 trenchgun legal? The 1866 and 1873 rifles we use are for the most part repros. The value and rarity of real pump trench guns make the use of a real one as a WB toy highly unlikely. I would also point out that Crazy Lee’s M12 is a riotgun with a sling. There are anachronisms in The Wild Bunch, the biggest is the 1917 WC. So what. Don’t call authenticity about shotguns and then allow any 1911 in the modern category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holloman Posted September 6, 2021 Author Share Posted September 6, 2021 OK. I admit I must have imagined it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimoreed11754 Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Dusty will know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Ok, we are jumping a lot of stumps. First I’m not the final word on rules I am nothing to do with the rule committee. I’m the administrator of the wire so what I say is my opinion and we all know what’s said about that. A correct replica of a model 12 would be legal I would think. Just sliding a bayonet heat shroud on your model 12 wouldn’t as there are several other differences this is as per previous statements from Happy Jack. A Chinese built factory 97 trenchgun is legal and they are good guns. If you have problem with modern 1911’s that’s easy just shoot traditional and turn your head when those offending modern pistols show up at the loading table. ;D it’s tue most 73’s and 92’s and 66’s are repops. As far as expensive and rare shotguns there are folks in some circles shooting hammered h and r shotguns wishing they could afford a hammerless model while in that other circle that guy is wishing for a deluxe engraved H&H instead of the field grade he has now. Moral? It’s all relative . What I don’t know is what is a 1917 WC never heard of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimoreed11754 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 I cannot post photos on this forum to save my life. Thought that I could at one time. The .30-06 1917 Browning Water Cooled is the star of The Wild Bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Ok ! That was the star! I was thinking on a different line. ;D Just think when the movie was made the prop house was probably fresh out of the French made Benet-Mercie machine guns......and the rest is movie history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Reading the WBAS Shooter's Handbook Version 15 page 12. This section has NOT changed for at least 8 years. There is NO mention of a Model 12 trench or riot gun configuration being legal. As an aside adding a heat shield with bayonet attachment to an existing 1897 if it was not originally manufactured as one is also ILLEGAL. Page 27 same handbook under ILLEGAL items: Slings or bayonets on main match long guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.N. Double Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 The rules plainly state that any Winchester 1897 civilian OR military model is allowed. Wouldn't a trench gun fall under this allowance? Edit: Sorry, I misinterpreted the last message. However... The rules also plainly state that Model 12s are allowed. The rules don't say that only specific types of Model 12s are allowed or that specific types are not allowed. If I add a heat shield, bayonet lug, and sling swivel to a riot gun, aren't I faithfully reproducing the trench gun? Why does it matter how it got that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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