lostvaquero Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Are either legal for BAMM? 48 is technically post ww2 but very similar I think to pre ww2 end not sure at all about the 24/47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 The Yugoslavian 24/47 was an arsenal rebuild on the original Model 24 design. Has been judged legal every time I've shot it. The Model 48 was "designed after WW II" and is judged not legal for BAMM at major matches that follow rules. Although it's very similar, it's a different design. Biggest modification - bent bolt handle. Be aware both of those have a shorter action than the normal Mauser. This means there is a shorter OAL on the loaded cartridges and a different stock if you ever restock it. Good luck, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostvaquero Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Thank you sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 The model 48 was not designed after ww2. It was built post war. The 24/47 was rebuilt post war. The barrels,sights,stocks,bolts all can swapped with each other. All model 48’s have bent bolts. Some 24/47 do. Samco imported bent bolt 24/47. The model 48 is very close cosmetically to the German ww2 standard issue rifle of ww2. 24/47 and mod 48 were being built and rebuilt all at the same time in the same factory using a lot of the same parts. The main thing really about the model 48 is new wood and new actions were used instead of refurbished old ones. There were even scrubbed versions of the mod 48 called B.O. that had no markings of any kind. To say the model 48 is a different design is laughable at best. This rifle is legal for BAMM because of how it is built. A rifle to be BAMM legal does not have to be built before the end of ww2. We are competitors shooting competitions. ;D fire away Joe! Dusty Boddams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 We obviously have a disagreement here. Send a note to Goatneck Clem. He wrote the rule and will be the final decision maker on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 HJ, will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 It's always wise to return to the rulebook instead of interpreting rules to be something other than written. The rifle must be an original caliber bolt-action rifle issued by any country to its military forces through the end of WWII. It must be as issued with original iron battle sights and NO external modifications. A bent bolt handle would sure seem like an external modification from the design that the Czech's (and adopted by Yugoslavia) prepared in 1924, which was a straight bolt handle action. The 48 uses an intermediate-length action, not the full length of a German 98. So, receiver, bolt and other parts are different. The 48 dropped the magazine cutoff also. Looking up the date of end of WW II (VJ Day), that was Sept 2, 1945. Considerably before 1948. If the rules really ARE supposed to allow the use of the Yugo 48, then let's get them changed so they CLEARLY allow this particular design of the Yugo Mauser. We've talked around this particular situation several times before and the rules have always stood as written originally at the end of those discussions, with the emphasis given to "enforce the rules as written." We do not do our potential BAMM shooters any favors by making it impossible for them to read the rules and obtain a clear answer in all situations. Good luck, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUSTY BODDAMS Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I don’t think a bent bolt is that new of technology because the original 1924 type 1 carbine featured bent bolts and side sling swivels. Type 2 carbines featured straight bolts with side sling swivels. Standard sling swivels for rifles. Of course we are speaking of original 1924 rifles not the arsenal rework guns of the 24/47 period. The intermediate action is original to the m24 design not to be confused with the vz24 on the full length action. The model 24 and 48 share the same action,you can swap the bolts. I’m not positive but I think 1924 predated Sept.2,1945 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatneck Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Could not respond to this issue until today. The SASS Wire would not allow me to enter a post from Nov 15 thru the 20th. It was up running again on the 21st. As stated earlier in this thread Joe Garrison is correct referencing the 24/47 arsenal rebuild. These rifles are legal for BAMM since the inception of BAMM Competition. The model 48 seems to be in the gray area for as its legality. Dusty Boddams covered its history pretty well in his post reply#3 on Nov 17, 2018. The Model 48 is BAMM Legal in all respects. It falls in both sets of criteria in the rules including " Faithful Reproductions". if you examine both guns the 24/47 and the Model 48 there is no advantage or disadvantage in their usage in BAMM Competition. Goatneck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 The Model 48 is BAMM Legal in all respects. Goatneck - Can you please see the next modifications to the WB rules call this out explicitly? I've asked for this before, and folks didn't seem to think it was important to improve the definition of a BAM rifle. Since then, we've had multiple questions on this forum, and several have asked at matches, about the Model 48 and unnecessary fur has flown because of it. Good luck, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostvaquero Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 Thank you gents. I learned a lot. At this point I am now leaning toward the Swiss K31. LV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatneck Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Joe, in the first place the competition is "BAMM" Bolt Action Military Match.... not BAM. The rule stands as stated. The Model 48 is legal in this competition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 The 2019 rule books are already posted on this site and the SASS main site. Therefore no changes can be made to them. I can post a "CLARIFICATION" on this site but can't change the Handbooks until next year to show the Mauser 48 as LEGAL. I will get with Goatneck and come up with any other "gray area" firearms he can think of and post their status later this year. In the meantime I will post on the WBAS Rules forum that the Mauser 48 is LEGAL for BAMM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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